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Quote of the Week: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - Will Durant, American historian (1885-1981)


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 Post subject: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-15 11:28am
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It came to my mind that Clancy actually made a story where all American war fantasies are basically fulfilled - and to a far greater extent than even many conservatives would think.

It would be so nice if milwankers just stuck reading this and imagining it, instead of actually trying to actively make the world feel more like these novels. Which is a pretty horrible world by any account. What's up with that fantasy? It is not enough to defeat Japan once, it is necessary to killify them again. It is not enough to be on more or less friendly terms with China at last, it is necessary to make war with them. It is necessary to subdue every nation on Earth to America, kill every hostile leader with the use of assassination (I guess Clancy spent nights masturbating over how the US finally poisons or otherwise kills Castro :lol: ), and repeatedly say that Democrats are destroying America while good Republicans "won't tolerate attacks on our citizens anywhere".

I wonder how long a real Jack Ryan would sit in the White House.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-15 12:37pm
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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-15 12:53pm
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Ryan/Clark 2012



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"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)

"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-15 01:33pm
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Tom Clancy is like if Burt Gummer wrote novels.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-15 03:17pm
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Tom Clancy's beliefs are rather simple - US foreign policy is incapable of creating long-term alliances and thus strong USA USA USA is needed.

And then he went on masturbating over his many Mary Sues.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-15 07:45pm
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I used to love reading Clancy novels when I was 10-12.

Then I grew up.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 12:04am
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atg wrote:
I used to love reading Clancy novels when I was 10-12.

Then I grew up.

Well, it's also that the later books aren't as good as the earlier ones (compare Hunt for Red October to Executive Orders, for example.

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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 12:14am
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Is he still writing?



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 12:31am
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eyl wrote:
Well, it's also that the later books aren't as good as the earlier ones (compare Hunt for Red October to Executive Orders, for example.


Hunt for Red October is OK. However some of his early stuff still includes gems like Ryan lecturing the Queen of England...



Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 12:46am
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atg wrote:
Hunt for Red October is OK. However some of his early stuff still includes gems like Ryan lecturing the Queen of England...

I thought it was Prince Charles he lectured, which is somewhat more forgiveable because... well, it's Prince Charles.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 01:22am
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No, no, no. With Prince Charles he berates him, essentially calling him a pussy, for having any doubts and what was essentially PTSD over his actions during the assassination attempt on his wife and child.

Ugh



Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 01:22am
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I think I have a copy somewhere still so I'll try to post the quotes later.



Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 08:10am
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Last good book he wrote was Without Remorse.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 11:38am
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Well you can always go for Red Storm Rising. :P



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 12:14pm
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I've only read The Hunt for the Red October, and one thing I did notice, was that during the Soviet Union vs the United States Navy maneuvers against each other, was that the US won every time when it came to them playing close calls against each other.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 03:59pm
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I think it was Teeth of the Tiger where I realized quite suddenly that the books weren't fun anymore, and hadn't been for a while.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 04:55pm
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I re-read the Jack Ryan chronicles recently as a study in my own patience (and as a break from reading horrific histories of colonialism and the like). It's hilarious how as time goes on not only do his politics become more overt, but his writing degrades horribly, he reuses the same words and phrases over and over throughout the book. Literally the same phrase. Again. And again. And again. Sometimes it's because I think he's learned a new word and is trying to show it off as much as possible.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 04:59pm
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Which is why the only one I read is Red Storm Rising...detached from the Ryanverse, an early book, and a book that was co-authored. Much better that way. :P



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 05:34pm
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I tried to read the Hunt for Read October but the infodumps put me to sleep.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-16 05:46pm
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I got up to The Bear and the Dragon but my dad warned me away from Teeth of the Tiger. Frankly, Bear and the Dragon was pretty shite as is. The last Ryan book I actually enjoyed (chronologically) was The Sun of All Fears.

The Hunt for Red October still sets the standard for me though.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-17 04:38am
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Without Remorse was so much better than...literally anything else he wrote that I had doubts it was actually a Clancy book. But it still had Clancy stuff in it: bad guys are all dumb, Clark suceeds in everything, etc.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-17 04:59am
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Ahriman238 wrote:
I think it was Teeth of the Tiger where I realized quite suddenly that the books weren't fun anymore, and hadn't been for a while.



I seriously think Teeth of the Tiger was ghostwritten though. For one thing it isn't a 2000 page impenetrable tome.



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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-17 06:50am
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I'm going to echo recommending Red October, Without Remorse and Red Storm Rising.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-17 08:05am
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Cardinal of the Kremlin was easily his best book. Larry Bond was essentially a co-author of RSR, IIRC.



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 Post subject: Re: Ryanverse PostPosted: 2012-10-17 08:06am
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Lonestar wrote:
Ahriman238 wrote:
I think it was Teeth of the Tiger where I realized quite suddenly that the books weren't fun anymore, and hadn't been for a while.



I seriously think Teeth of the Tiger was ghostwritten though. For one thing it isn't a 2000 page impenetrable tome.

All his recent stuff is, isn't it?



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I love the smell of September in the morning. Once we got off at Richmond, walked up to the 'G, and there was no game on. Not one footballer in sight. But that cut grass smell, spring rain...it smelt like victory.

Dynamic. When [Kuznetsov] decided he was going to make a difference, he did it...Like Ovechkin...then you find out - he's with Washington too? You're kidding.
- Ron Wilson

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