Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

[aieeegrunt]

It seemed to me that not only was Rick seriously considering taking the Govenor's offer, but he was actually trying to emotionally manipulate the rest of the group to go along with it; his "they need to be scared enough" line in particular. He also knew that Farmer One Leg would be totally opposed to this deal, so he's trying to head that off with his offer to "talk me out of it".

His plan to keep canvassing the town for weapons after the police station was a bust was also pretty fucking stupid; hey this bartender has a permit for a shotgun, lets wander through town on the off chance that it didn't get taken or used when the zombies overran the town. Not only that but we'll ignore all the "Fuck Off and Go Away" signage everywhere and blithely stroll into the openly trapped, marked, and pretty blatant kill zone.

My opinion of Rick has been declining for a while, but I think it's reached the point where even a kid can see he needs to step down.

[FSTargetDrone]

So, no one commenting about the return of a certain benefactor?

?

Spoiler

Morgan.

[spaceviking]

His plan to keep canvassing the town for weapons after the police station was a bust was also pretty fucking stupid; hey this bartender has a permit for a shotgun, lets wander through town on the off chance that it didn't get taken or used when the zombies overran the town. Not only that but we'll ignore all the "Fuck Off and Go Away" signage everywhere and blithely stroll into the openly trapped, marked, and pretty blatant kill zone.

Um, he was desperate for weapons. Also he was not canvassing the town, he was specifically looking for weapons that most people would not have known about. Presumably many of the owners could have died in the early stages before everyone was carrying. I guess he was stupid ignoring the signage, but he was incredibly desperate and it is not crazy to guess the town was deserted and the people who wrote the signs may have left or been overrun.

[aieeegrunt]

If they hadn't left, he's served himself up on a platter, and that is exactly what happened. If Morgan had been a half way decent shot he could have bagged all three of them.

[Alkaloid]

But instead it paid off and they pretty much doubled their arsenal. Terrible, terrible call, that one. When he was last in town the police armoury hadn't even been emptied, why would he assume someone had already swept the town for hidden weapons when the obvious ones were still there?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Indeed. I think the risk to go back to the town's police armoury was worth it, especially since he really did need some equaliser if he was going to face off with The Governor (which, let's face it, he does given they have more resources).

He may also have gotten Morgan to come around at some point, if he ever gets out of that nihilistic funk he's in.

[aieeegrunt]

But instead it paid off and they pretty much doubled their arsenal. Terrible, terrible call, that one. When he was last in town the police armoury hadn't even been emptied, why would he assume someone had already swept the town for hidden weapons when the obvious ones were still there?

Please, that was pure writer's fiat. Morgan just happened to be a terrible shot who also just happened to have a giant weapon's stash. NONE of that due to anything Rick did, he just got it handed to him via lazy/convenient writing. Once it was clear the Police Armory had been cleaned out, he's basically decided to wander around hoping to get lucky. That may or many not be smart, but "wandering through clealy labelled kill zone" certainly isn't.

There are better ways to canvass a town than "hey, here is a clearly labelled kill zone full of obstacles, let's stick our faces in it". Did none of those buildings have back or side doors or something? Is this the only small town in existence? My first thought would have been "I am a sitting duck for anybody in an upper window while I slowly manouver through all the traps and BS. There are giant FUCK OFF signs everywhere. I don't think this is a good idea".

Part 2 of Even A Child Can See Rick Should Step Done is him seriously considering the Govenor's offer via Michone. Even if we assume the Govenor is sincere, he's fatally weakening his group. Not only does he give up one of his better fighters, any sort of group solidarity goes right out the window as everybody is going to be focused on "not being the expendible one today". Of course it should be fairly obvious to everybody that the Govenor isn't just going to shrug and conveniently go away. Once you pay the Danegeld and all.

[Tanasinn]

The Governor isn't sincere. He explicitly said so. His aim is to decapitate the prison group. Rick, I think, knows this, but is mulling over the possibility that it might be wrong and the ethical implications. It doesn't help that he's one bad day away from a total meltdown.

I'm guessing Merle is going to slap his shit if he suggests actually giving up Michonne, despite his racism. He knows the governor's character better than anyone in the group, and I expect he'll voice strong disagreement with any sacrifice-anyone plan, if only for his own and his brother's sake.

[Flagg]

Should have taken the truck, Andrea.

[Block]

Just a bad episode. No part of it made any sense at all. Andrea staying in sight of the road is beyond stupid, as was her not pulling the trigger at any number of points. Her being caught was nonsense too.

[spaceviking]

I found it pretty good. Not to much standing around talking, and greater information about the Michilone and Andrea relationship. I think the best episodes are the ones that focus on just one or two characters.

She might have to stay near the road just to find her way.

[Block]

I found it pretty good. Not to much standing around talking, and greater information about the Michilone and Andrea relationship. I think the best episodes are the ones that focus on just one or two characters.

She might have to stay near the road just to find her way.

She's found her way previously without being near the road. She also could've killed the Governor easily 6 or 7 times, but didn't because? Bad writing. If she's smart and tough enough to have survived the inital wave of mass extinction she should be able to put some psycho who's trying to kill her down. Ignoring that, he also happens to know that she ducks into a building despite not being able to see her because? Oh, bad writing, right. And he happens to be right behind her when she gets to the prison without her noticing because? Yup, bad writing. He drives as easily as he used to with both eyes too, which is bad writing. Awful episode, the writing is getting worse and worse. Clear was the exception in a season that's been full of just shit writing.

[spaceviking]

Are you saying you preferred the writing in the second season

[Dread Not]

Interesting that burning a walker until it can no longer stand doesn't cook the brain or damage the nervous system enough to totally kill it. It strikes me as strange that they didn't show the face of whoever burnt the walkers considering Milton is the only one who had the means and motive to do it and it's heavily implied to have been him. If they're trying to go for a "shocking" reveal, who else could it be?

She's found her way previously without being near the road.

She also had a gun the last time and had her walker decoy system handy, so she could take her time. She might have wanted to stay in the open where she can see walkers coming. Considering how questionable Andrea's situational awareness has been in several episodes, including this one, it might have been a good call.

She also could've killed the Governor easily 6 or 7 times, but didn't because? Bad writing.

Because, as it is explained, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Martinez would take over, which wouldn't be much of an improvement, and Andrea would never make it out of Woodbury alive and would therefore no longer be able to warn the prison group. She only even had the stomach to kill the Governor in cold blood after she saw his torture chamber, and she was disarmed shortly after that.

He drives as easily as he used to with both eyes too, which is bad writing.

Yes, those were some truly crazy driving stunts he pulled, including driving across an empty road, driving at moderate speed across an open field and he even has the coordination to honk his horn! Even with one eye he can put Mad Max to shame. Driving with one eye is so challenging when you have next to nothing to avoid and don’t have to follow any driving laws.

[Alkaloid]

She also could've killed the Governor easily 6 or 7 times, but didn't because? Bad writing.

Or maybe because she isn't a computer that will always make the best and most efficient decision at all times, she's actually a person. And holy shit, the cold blooded murder of another human being might actually be a little bit hard. It might even be doubly hard when you were sleeping with that person because you actually liked them, wanted to believe in their dream and then found out they were just crazy. I mean hell, Carol might make it sound easy, but she didn't kill her husband in any of the 35 million ways she would have had opportunities to, and he was raping their fucking daughter.

Should have taken the truck, Andrea.

I'd assume the Governor had the keys. I sure as shit wouldn't go back inside to get them.

Part 2 of Even A Child Can See Rick Should Step Done is him seriously considering the Govenor's offer via Michone. Even if we assume the Govenor is sincere, he's fatally weakening his group. Not only does he give up one of his better fighters, any sort of group solidarity goes right out the window as everybody is going to be focused on "not being the expendible one today". Of course it should be fairly obvious to everybody that the Govenor isn't just going to shrug and conveniently go away. Once you pay the Danegeld and all.

The only part of that that makes any sense is that yeah, they should have tried to find a way around traps clearly designed for walkers, not people. Morgan eing an awesome shot and popping the three of them before they can move to cover in a street filled with nothing but cover is just as much writers fiat. And when the fuck did Rick seriously consider the offer? shortly before he declared to the group that the governor was going to try to kill them all and they were going to qwar? He mentioned the potential consequences to Herschel because he is aware there are some, thats not seriously considering the offer. The one consistent thing Rick has done is not abandon one member of the group to save the rest, even if it is risky. Why did that suddenly change?

[Block]

Because, as it is explained, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Martinez would take over, which wouldn't be much of an improvement, and Andrea would never make it out of Woodbury alive and would therefore no longer be able to warn the prison group. She only even had the stomach to kill the Governor in cold blood after she saw his torture chamber, and she was disarmed shortly after that.

Sure if she murders him in town. If she kills him outside of town, where as far as she knows, he's already tried to run her down with a truck, who's going to know she did it? The Governor's death would absolutely slow down the attack if nothing else, and if she cares so very much about the group she's heading towards, she'd do it, especially since the guy is trying to kill her anyways.

Yes, those were some truly crazy driving stunts he pulled, including driving across an empty road, driving at moderate speed across an open field and he even has the coordination to honk his horn! Even with one eye he can put Mad Max to shame. Driving with one eye is so challenging when you have next to nothing to avoid and don’t have to follow any driving laws.

It's actually extremely difficult to even stay on the road with one eye and there are obstructions all over the place as well as potholes, ditches etc due to no road maintainence for over a year. He'd also have no perephrial vision on the side of the road she was on since that eye is gone. He shouldn't have had a chance of spotting her.

[spaceviking]

My old football coach has a glass eye, he was also a cop. He had no difficulty driving or spotting players. This probably took some time to adapt to, but one eye is not completely debilitating.

[Dread Not]

Sure if she murders him in town. If she kills him outside of town, where as far as she knows, he's already tried to run her down with a truck, who's going to know she did it? The Governor's death would absolutely slow down the attack if nothing else, and if she cares so very much about the group she's heading towards, she'd do it, especially since the guy is trying to kill her anyways.

She has a dinky two inch blade, he has a gun, she's been running through the forest, he hasn't, she's 5'5", he's 6'3" and you can't think of any reason she wouldn't want to try to take him out in a close-quarters fight?

It's actually extremely difficult to even stay on the road with one eye and there are obstructions all over the place as well as potholes, ditches etc due to no road maintainence for over a year. He'd also have no perephrial vision on the side of the road she was on since that eye is gone. He shouldn't have had a chance of spotting her.

Uh huh. You typically don't keep eyes locked on the road if you're looking for someone, especially if you don't need to worry about running over any toddlers.

My old football coach has a glass eye, he was also a cop. He had no difficulty driving or spotting players. This probably took some time to adapt to, but one eye is not completely debilitating.

It's also most likely not the first time the Governor has driven since his injury since he appeared to have gotten himself to the summit.

I'd assume the Governor had the keys. I sure as shit wouldn't go back inside to get them.

With so many abandoned vehicles everywhere you would think that everyone would find hot-wiring vehicles to be a useful survival skill.

[aieeegrunt]

She also could've killed the Governor easily 6 or 7 times, but didn't because? Bad writing.

The Govenor clearly has some sort of personal teleportation device. First he escapes the walker swarm in the building, then he teleports behind Andrea in the forest, then he teleports himself and Andrea back to his truck. He couldn't have used the truck to catch up with Andrea because she would have heard it coming well before seeing it; the noise of an auto is going to carry for some distance if there is nothing else working for miles.

Part 2 of Even A Child Can See Rick Should Step Done is him seriously considering the Govenor's offer via Michone. Even if we assume the Govenor is sincere, he's fatally weakening his group. Not only does he give up one of his better fighters, any sort of group solidarity goes right out the window as everybody is going to be focused on "not being the expendible one today". Of course it should be fairly obvious to everybody that the Govenor isn't just going to shrug and conveniently go away. Once you pay the Danegeld and all.

The only part of that that makes any sense is that yeah, they should have tried to find a way around traps clearly designed for walkers, not people. Morgan eing an awesome shot and popping the three of them before they can move to cover in a street filled with nothing but cover is just as much writers fiat.

Well it seems one hell of an unneccesary risk to me. I'm going to walk into the blatant kill zone hoping there's only one guy who's a bad shot.

And when the fuck did Rick seriously consider the offer?

When he asked Herschel to talk him out of it? Why else would he do that?

shortly before he declared to the group that the governor was going to try to kill them all and they were going to qwar?

So they'd be "scared enough". Scared enough that the offer looks palatable. He's already laying the groundwork for a sellout.

He mentioned the potential consequences to Herschel because he is aware there are some, thats not seriously considering the offer.

If he's not considering it, why even bother? You'd either not mention it at all, or you'd make a public declaration that you were'nt doing it, using the Govenor making such an offer to underscore that he's evil and we have to stand up to him now or he's going to pick us apart.

The one consistent thing Rick has done is not abandon one member of the group to save the rest, even if it is risky. Why did that suddenly change?

He's clearly reached his limit and is cracking under the strain. The guy's chasing the ghost of his dead wife around a zombie infested forest. I think rational thought is pretty far behind him now.

Doh quote tags derp

[The Yosemite Bear]

I have a driver's licesnse, I passed the skills test with only -3 to -7, I have brain damage that keeps me from having working binocular vision. (indeed my penalties are always fro being too cautious, and stopping for signs and railroad crossing's too early.)Well I missed sunday's episode this week because I was out like a light after taking some pain drugs after work...

[Sinewmire]

The Govenor clearly has some sort of personal teleportation device. First he escapes the walker swarm in the building, then he teleports behind Andrea in the forest, then he teleports himself and Andrea back to his truck. He couldn't have used the truck to catch up with Andrea because she would have heard it coming well before seeing it; the noise of an auto is going to carry for some distance if there is nothing else working for miles.

I have to say, the first thing that popped into my mind was:



That said, I imagine that The Governor fought off, or escaped the zombies (somehow), had no idea where Andrea was and so drove to the prison and waited for her. She wasn't being terribly stealthy, having walked the whole way, so he'd have seen/heard her. He probably stalked her, all sneaky-like for a couple of minutes before grabbing her.

Rather poor pay-off for Andrea's clever use of the door, I thought.

[Tanasinn]

It's not really hard to escape zombies. Just, you know, walk away. At a mildly brisk pace.

I was puzzled as to why he was bothering to keep fighting them at all when it was very clear he wasn't getting through them to Andrea. But then again, a guy who keeps a trophy room full of severed heads may not always be the rational sort.

[spaceviking]

It's not really hard to escape zombies. Just, you know, walk away. At a mildly brisk pace.

I was puzzled as to why he was bothering to keep fighting them at all when it was very clear he wasn't getting through them to Andrea. But then again, a guy who keeps a trophy room full of severed heads may not always be the rational sort.

Well, it had been a long day. Maybe it was more just frustration.

[The Yosemite Bear]

besides I thought Micheonne trashed his trophy room of severed heads, maybe he needs more?

[Flagg]

NOOOOOOOOOO! My favorite racist redneck (besides Coffee ) is dead!