Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

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spaceviking
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by spaceviking »

Maybe woodburry could have posted a scout or something? Had Daryl and someone been there to cover mearle, they could have wiped out the Governors crew.

Woodburry can take out soldiers, but they can't set up a basic defense?
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Flagg »

They can take out road weary National Guardsman that looked and acted more like weekend warriors than anything else.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by spaceviking »

Still, if they did not have heavy weapons Karl and Beth could handle the defense of the prison against these guys.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Flagg »

Fuck I'd take one Carl for 10 of those motherfuckers.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Tanasinn »

I fucking KNEW they were going to kill Merle.

What is with these writers and "hey, let's start developing a character...then kill them!"
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

My brain started re-working a dixey chicks song: Goodbye Merle....
Image

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Flagg »

Well that was unsatisfying.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by spaceviking »

Just me or did they not seem to show enough woodburry getting gunned down? Went from 40 to a dozen pretty fast.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by ArmorPierce »

I guess it's possible that a bunch just got scattered and lost like the kid that Carl shot. Was it rather convenient that their main gun jammed?
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by spaceviking »

Based on the quality of the woodbury B squad, it may have been an easy fix.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Tanasinn »

It might not've even been jammed, the way those idiots were spraying .50 into a hillside rather than anything relevant.

I don't see why anyone's surprised at this outcome. In the blue corner you have a small party of hardened killers who know the terrain and have prepared an ambush. In the red corner you have a literal angry mob with a couple of hardened killers and a whole bunch of useless chaff. The ambush was well-executed and it's honestly just luck more of them didn't die in the tombs from panic fire, running the wrong way, etc.

The governor greasing them isn't a surprise, either. Look how he reacted to panic in Woodbury the first time Rick's crew attacked. He couldn't possibly have shown any more contempt for them if he had tried.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Meest »

Pretty weak finale, seems like they blew their budget on the initial assault to ooh and aah the gore fans. The tomb traps did not come out well with the way they edited or shot them, had no clue if they all ran out or got trapped and killed. Then Maggie and Glenn hit nobody, one or both of the machines gun are out of ammo or jammed, and Martinez forgets he has or used all of his grenades somehow. No back and forth battle when the whole season builds it up, or at least a more gritty fight that leaves people exhausted.

Episode ended up being a lame guess if Andrea dies or not, not worthy of a finale. No tension, no sense of desperation or time running out. Then the typical little things that they always seem to overlook, Governor leaving most of his fleet of trucks and heavy weapons, Andrea trying to do a monologue when fumbling with pliers, stuff like that is just too transparent in trying to create more drama. Can just feel them stretching the budget, though to be fair kind of knew they wanted to use the prison for more than a season because it was expensive. Still feels like a better show could write around that, bring in more Carl like sub plots instead of teasing and using filler the rest of the season.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by aieeegrunt »

Unless they magically come up with a cure in the next episode, which would be a worse reset button than Starbuck coming back in nBSG, Andrea is dead. Good fucking riddance. I'm glad that Logical Consequences finally caught up with somebody on this show. If she hadn't wasted so much time talking to Milton or giving him meaningful stares after he passed out she'd still be alive. That was enfuriating to watch.

It's Walking Dead though, so I get to be annoyed by the stupidity anyways as Carl does something smart and gets shit on for it. I don't blame him for casting the sherrif's badge at the feet of his tool of a father after giving a succinct synopsis of his incompetence.

Seriously, if you keep repeating "drop the gun" and the guy keeps edging closer to you then he is going to jump you. It's practically a law of television. I was mentally preparing myself for Stupid Hostage Drama when Carl refreshingly surprised me by doing the smart thing and plugging him instead. And of course his reward for being smart is being harrassed because he's surrounded by morons.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Flagg »

It's pretty sad that the death of Merle had more emotional impact than the ham fisted "we gotta write her out now" death of Andrea, who was so butchered this season from her comic book origins.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Themightytom »

Flagg wrote:It's pretty sad that the death of Merle had more emotional impact than the ham fisted "we gotta write her out now" death of Andrea, who was so butchered this season from her comic book origins.
Both were a massive waste of story telling potential to no purpose, walking dead jumped the shark when they shot Sophia, personally I'm on to game of thrones, I really don't want to stick around for them to introduce time travel or god.

I'm really tired of the Governor succeeding at things due to the sheer writer's fiat of willful character ignorance. he is surrounded by people who have so far survived and are living through a literal zombie apocalypse. When Andrea goes to the town and Michonne tells her she doesn't want to see it like it is because she wants a safe life back, fine. the Governor was good looking, they have a nurse, they have electricity, an organized guard, barbecues, I understand the dilemma.

But when you're down to a one eyed governor who makes a habit of having arena fighting that ultimately escalates to mortal combat, you've had at least four breaches in the past week, the obvious second in command disappears, the highly regarded newcomer who spoke un support of the town goes traitor, and you're getting ready to deploy a pit full of biters, how is no one lookinga round furtively and saying "hey guys... fuck this..."

Instead people are all "kill the beast, kill the beast.." marching to their doom. SOMEONE should have been watching the governor closely enough to blow him away when he turned on them, it was not a shocking move.

And for our protagonists, yet another tainted victory? Rick's family survived...uh but Shane has replaced him, Lorie is pregnant, ohhhh but whose is it. We found the CDCrun by a crazy guy, and it's seconds from blowing up... We found a farm! Carl got shot, Carl's gonna live, the barn is full of walkers, Glen has found love! Sophie was in the barn, More people, they're evil, Rick finally defeats Shane, the whole farm burns down, we found a safe haven...infested by walkers and Herschel loses a leg, Lorie has her baby! Carl has to shoot her, we found a town...run by a lunatic, Andrea's alive! Sleeping with the lunatic, Michonne can be trusted, but what's his face from the first episode has gone crazy because tragedy struck, Andrea sees the light and will rejoin, ohh but the governor is hunting her now, Merl finds redemption Andrea is captured. Fuck this writers, what are you doing here?? We defeated the town...and Andrea...did not...quite...survive. I agree with flagg, she literally died because she abandoned all of that pluckiness we saw at the beginning of the season because what, she was emotionally compromised by the Guy She Warned About Biters? There's irony there, I'll give them that, She protects Milton from the biter he has restrained so he can learn more about the disease, only to later be restrained when he succumbs to that disease and mauls her, even though he TRIED to help her by leaving her a means of escape.

Now that we have all new miscellaneous cannon fodder from the town for the next season, is there anybody there I'm going to care about? Will they give us any characters who survive long enough to identify with, or will we continue to see the SG:U formula of characters so flawed, I just want them to die. Do I have to check in any more to see if they make any progress in the larger context of the world they live in, or was that done with at the CDC, and all they'll do is hold one untenable position after another until they're all dead. What is the purpose of this show anymore, we explored the human reaction to the apocalypse, fine, but this is several seasons later, what the hell people, the btiers were only slightly relevant this season, it was just another "Ehrmagerd man's darkest enemy is himself"

We need either a conspiracy to uncover, like the black helicopters, a larger context in this post apocalyptic world, or a character who is actually fun to watch besides Darryl, who bis GOD damnit, turning grim dark... I see your leather jacket buddy, cut it out... is this another show where the title reflects the plot.

Fine, rebuild the prison and sit there static and brooding, I liked them better when they were driving around solving mysteries. I really want to see a sub group leave the prison, and maybe check back every few weeks, I get the whole theme of "common people surviving the apocalypse", but it's tired. I want to see some damn heroes kicking ass and taking names, not this plodding irrelevant stupiity, there are too many regulars in this show that suck.

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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by spaceviking »

aieeegrunt wrote:Unless they magically come up with a cure in the next episode, which would be a worse reset button than Starbuck coming back in nBSG, Andrea is dead. Good fucking riddance. I'm glad that Logical Consequences finally caught up with somebody on this show. If she hadn't wasted so much time talking to Milton or giving him meaningful stares after he passed out she'd still be alive. That was enfuriating to watch.

It's Walking Dead though, so I get to be annoyed by the stupidity anyways as Carl does something smart and gets shit on for it. I don't blame him for casting the sherrif's badge at the feet of his tool of a father after giving a succinct synopsis of his incompetence.

Seriously, if you keep repeating "drop the gun" and the guy keeps edging closer to you then he is going to jump you. It's practically a law of television. I was mentally preparing myself for Stupid Hostage Drama when Carl refreshingly surprised me by doing the smart thing and plugging him instead. And of course his reward for being smart is being harrassed because he's surrounded by morons.
Though it is worth saying that Rick does not know that. He is going by what Herschel said, and Herschel is still too trusting. Karl is just a kid, so it is understandable that he has a hard time explaining how even though the guy was not attacking he was not following directions. It is better that Karl's actions are debatable rather than just him gunning someone down.

Though weird how Martiniez stays with the Governor. Even if he has contempt for the townspeople, he is better off on his own.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Jaepheth »

+1 to Carl being right; or at least not totally wrong.

"Drop the gun" means DROP the gun, not slowly inch forward baiting me to reach for the gun so you can try something desperate.

Carl was at a physical disadvantage and could not allow the boy to get any closer.

Had he forcefully repeated the directions he may have peacefully diffused the situation, but he's not a police officer and isn't trained for that sort of confrontation.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by spaceviking »

Anyone familiar with body amour, what kind was Glen and Maggie wearing? Like is it riot gear designed to protect against prison knives, or would it be pretty good against the kind of rifles woodburry had?
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Ralin »

So, why exactly were they relocating people from Woodbury to the prison?
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by spaceviking »

I am going with easier to shoot the show there/
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Ralin »

spaceviking wrote:I am going with easier to shoot the show there/
I suppose.

Still, leaving a fortified town with electricity and modern conveniences? I guess they can scavenge a lot of that, but, eh.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Alkaloid »

It's pretty sad that the death of Merle had more emotional impact than the ham fisted "we gotta write her out now" death of Andrea, who was so butchered this season from her comic book origins.
I'm pretty sure tho whole show has had only the barest relationship to the comic book for the last two seasons, I'm assuming nothing I know about the books applies to the show any more.

I can't help but feel that we finished this season exactly where we started it though. Tyrese is T-Dog 3.0, his sister is Andrea 2.0, new caucasian brunette is Lori 2.0, Carl continues to annoy the shit out of me, Glen, Maggie and Daryl continue to be under utilised and Rick is about as crazy now as he was then. Now they just have old people instead of unarmed children and pregnant lady.
Still, leaving a fortified town with electricity and modern conveniences? I guess they can scavenge a lot of that, but, eh.
A lot of wall that has to be covered and attracts walkers like moths to a flame. The prison can be secured and farmed if they can clear the courtyard again, the town is much harder to.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by spaceviking »

I really wished the battle was more defenders being clever than Governor going straight into a trap. It is a tv show, so I would have been happy with just a little effort. Maybe have the Governor leave some people with machine gun, but they are sniped when the ambush is sprung. Have a tank ditch dug and covered? (would not need to be that deep just enough that one vehicle full of people has its front tires suck and passengers roughed up). Maybe some creative use of zombies? Like putting body armour and helmets on some, lighting some on fire, having ricks group covered in walker flesh over the body armour so they can operate near the horde.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Ralin »

Alkaloid wrote:A lot of wall that has to be covered and attracts walkers like moths to a flame. The prison can be secured and farmed if they can clear the courtyard again, the town is much harder to.
I dunno, it seemed pretty workable before everything went to hell. Granted they have fewer people now. Just seems like they could do something other than let it go to waste.
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Re: Walking Dead Season 3 Discussion (Spoilers)

Post by Wing Commander MAD »

So, why exactly were they relocating people from Woodbury to the prison?
Remember, the Governor is still on the loose along with his two henchmen, granted they both seem to be afraid of him too. I would think the last place you'd want to settle would be his former home while he is still at large, especially considering he now is lacking an army and will probably have to resort to sabotage to get his revenge. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Martinez and the black guy(Shumpert?) bailed on him at the first chance they got.

Something else to consider is that the population of Woodbury was pretty much reduced to the woman they rescued, Tyreese and Sasha, one or two other guards, the elderly and children. I've seen it postulated that more people died in the tombs than we were shown, as it certainly looked like they bussed in more guys than the Governor killed and they referred to the failed attack as a slaughter. Actually, it looks like the defense went largely as planned (looked like they were prepared to flee as a contingency as well), which seemed to mostly rely on panicking the Woodbury conscripts into routing than actually killing them which might harden the survivors' resolve. This is reinforced by Glen and Maggie shouting at them to leave, while spraying generally inaccurate fire toward the people fleeing into the courtyard.

Honestly, I'd say we had a good bit of development in this episode. The Ricktatorship is truly dead and gone, and Rick seems to be back to his old preflight from the farm self. Meanwhile, the Governor has finally snapped and shown his true self to all, and Carl seems to be headed down a dark path. Finally, we have Andreas believable, though somewhat anticlimactic death.

Andrea's death was very believable in my eyes. I've no doubt she was beaten and probably tortured like Milton; it's just that the networks are reluctant to show any form of direct, or in many cases even implied, physical violence against a woman, while the same against a man is perfectly fine and may even be the emphasis of a scene. Throw in malnourishment and the anxiety of just when Milton is going to turn, and I'd be surprised if she did survive in this particular instance, when in just about any other she has been shown to be quite capable of surviving. Also, her death and the realization that her failure was trying to save everyone, contrasted with Rick realizing that not trying to was his, was a nice added touch.

Finally, the whole issue with Carl seems to be being missed by most of the places I hang out online. He made the right call, and indeed, it looked like the kid was going to try something. The real problem is that he made the right call for the wrong reasons. His reasoning basically boiled down to that there was no room for mercy, evident in his litany of Rick's errors. This is in line with the worldview of Shane who died trying to murder Rick, the Governor a sociopathic mass murder, and dictator Rick who was driven to madness. Rick, and his group are basically the last vestiges of civilization and decency in humanity that we've seen who have managed to survive. We see this slipping in season 2 with Dale's death and the debate of executing the kid they pulled off the fence, and near loss throughout season 3 with Ricks refusal to help the hiker and contemplating handing over Michionne. Ultimately, this ends with Rick being driven mad. In turn, we see Rick's redemption begin when he outright asks Hershel to be his conscious, in the same vein as the late Dale, and talk him out of the Governor's deal. We see it again with his insistence on refusing to give up on Morgan. This culminates with taking in the survivors of Woodbury and the banishment of his demons and return to sanity, evident by the lack of Lori's ghost on the walkway.
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