NCAA College Football: Sanction PSU?

[Block]

Is there any precedent for vacated wins being restored to a team even? I don't think the NCAA would do that without some pretty extreme circumstances.

No. It'll never happen. The NCAA did everything it could to permanently wipe Paterno from the record books that they could.

[FSTargetDrone]

The moment a record is restored after being penalized the way it was for Paterno, that kind of penalty will lose its meaning. The NCAA simply cannot be seen as that toothless.

[Broomstick]

I'm sure they fully intend to return it to display, though in a relatively discreet location, in a few years.

How about where they keep the urinals and toilets in the boys' locker room, with a sign hung around its neck saying "This man was an accessory and facilitator of rape in this very place"?

[aerius]

The board of trustees, as top leadership as it comes and the same people who decided to pull down the damn statue, specifically voted against reigning in the football program and specifically curbing the power and independence of Joe Paterno in years past, and after we known McQueary made specifically told Paterno that he saw a child being raped. They decided very to deliberately let him do whatever he wanted because he won football games even when all kinds of questions were raised about how improper the whole situation was on an institutional basis. That kind of mentality was dangerous, stupid and showed a complete lack of control and concern, which is why it was strongly questioned, but reform was avoided. They deserve to suffer for a lack of leadership like that when it has now been plainly shown to have had such grave consequences.

Its made worse by the way so many local fans, residents and employees are so damn delusional about the whole situation. Its not that many of them think its unfair to have collective punishment, they damn well deny that anything wrong happened at all and want to claim Pappy Joe was the best man ever and never did a thing wrong at all. Crushing such a mentality is a worthy goal in its own right.

Also I'll say again, this is a publicly funded school. It does not get to do whatever it wants. Its educating a significant portion of the youth of Pennsylvania and the United States. Standards damn well matter, and demanding some strict courtroom code of accountability is not desirable nor appropriate. I wonder what you'd be saying if this was a case of a giant corporate multinational company that had high level executives covering up the fact that someone was deliberately pouring mercury into drinking water for a decade, with its board of directors voting not allow inspections.

Exactly. The school has shown that it can't be trusted with the safety of the students, and also that it's willing to go to some lengths to cover up rapes, and futhermore, it wasn't just one person, it went all the way to the top of the entire administration. The football program rapes kids and covers it up and the administration running the school goes along with it.

You might as well replace football coach & school admin with Catholic priests and bishops, either way boys are getting raped and the entire organization is involved with the coverup. So why is it that most people on this board are so quick to condemn the entire Church system and demand that they get their charter revoked and permanently broken up while saying that it's unfair for a school to suffer when they did the same damn thing as the Catholic church? If we're gonna be consistent here, we should demand that Penn get its football program suspended indefinitely (reviewable in say, 50 years) at the very least, or if we go by the same standards, we call for the entire school's charter to be revoked since they were ultimately responsible for the rapes and subsequent coverups.

Personal thoughts on the sanctions? Slap on the wrist. The fines & lost revenue will just get passed on to students via tuition hikes and the alumni will chip in their share. Within 10 years everything will be back to business as usual minus the win records. That's a punishment? Really? I'm for the death penalty, and not some pussy-ass 5 year suspension of the program. Death is permanent, the football program dies, forever. Maybe we'll review it 50-100 years after everyone who is now employed by the school is safely dead.

[Elfdart]

Dave Zirin's interview on Democracy Now! is very informative, and covers Gov. Corbett's role in covering for Sandusky.

[Darth Fanboy]

I'm sure they fully intend to return it to display, though in a relatively discreet location, in a few years.

How about where they keep the urinals and toilets in the boys' locker room, with a sign hung around its neck saying "This man was an accessory and facilitator of rape in this very place"?

The university has already announced they are going to renovate or replace those buildings. But I'm guessing if it did go back up it would be near or inside the library. If it goes up anywhere I think the risk of vandals plus misguided defenders would lead to some tension I don't think the school will ever want. They'll quietly destroy the statue later.

[Darth Fanboy]

Well a new article went out today that apparently proves my opinion that the NCAA was scared to use the death penalty in this case was wrong. PSU was facing a likely 4 year ban plus steeper fines if they didn't accept the penalties the NCAA had laid out. I find myself having no sympathy for PSU but the NCAA really put the metaphorical go to their head on this one.

Surprised more PSU guys aren't transferring, but I've also read that recruiters from other teams are recruiting p
PSU players in campus parking lots, that's surreal.

[Rogue 9]

"Football, fraternities, and fun have no place in the university. They were introduced only to entertain those who shouldn’t be in the university." - Robert Maynard Hutchins, president of the University of Chicago, upon withdrawing his university from the Big 10 in 1946.

If only more would follow his example. Organized college athletics as it exists today (namely, as farms for the NFL and NBA, run at taxpayer expense in the case of state schools and at the expense of all the students who are barred from participation in any case) should be expunged, not lavished with hundreds of millions of dollars that both ensure its total corruption and by rights should go towards the purpose of higher education - namely, education. Sanctioning Penn State attacks the symptom, not the cure - if college athletics wasn't so monstrously influential in the halls of learning, Sandusky's abhorrent behavior would never have gotten as far as it did.

[FSTargetDrone]

Well a new article went out today that apparently proves my opinion that the NCAA was scared to use the death penalty in this case was wrong. PSU was facing a likely 4 year ban plus steeper fines if they didn't accept the penalties the NCAA had laid out. I find myself having no sympathy for PSU but the NCAA really put the metaphorical go to their head on this one.

Surprised more PSU guys aren't transferring, but I've also read that recruiters from other teams are recruiting p
PSU players in campus parking lots, that's surreal.

Yeah, I thought that the players' solidarity would last only as long as some of them started to realize how serious the situation is and that they are looking at guaranteed zero bowl appearances for the next several years.

There are at least 2 players who are exploring their options:

Penn State Football: Silas Redd concludes meeting with USC, reports say Anthony Fera talking to Texas

Published: Thursday, July 26, 2012, 2:51 PM

By GREG PICKEL, The Patriot-News

With Bill O'Brien answering a resounding "no" to questions regarding running back Silas Redd or any players looking to transfer from Penn State in Chicago, and the first-year head coach saying no players have informed him of their intent to transfer, two current Nittany Lions have drawn publicity for exploring their options.

Redd met with USC head coach Lane Kiffin Thursday morning, who, according to reports, presented Redd with a variety of information ranging from powerpoints to video clips in an attempt to woo Redd to the west coast.

"It went really well," a source told ESPN's Joe Schad.

The report also notes that Redd is considering traveling to California to visit USC's campus on Saturday, and potentially make a decision on Monday.

O'Brien was brief when asked if he had heard anything on his star running back's plan, simply responding "no" during his turn at the podium at the Big Ten media day.

Fera Looking at Texas

Penn State kicker/punter Anthony Fera has been in touch with Texas about transferring into the Longhorns' program, according to reports.

Fera, who is from Texas, , was recruited by the Longhorns out of high school, and the senior could be a huge aid for a Texas team that is currently in the midst of finding a reliable kicker and punter. Fera was 12 for 17 on field goals a year ago.

Let's see now how quickly the fans start to turn on the guys who make the decision to split.

[Darth Fanboy]

The same fans who won't be cheering for any team in the postseason anyway? I wouldn't want to play in Sandusky's shadow either.

[FSTargetDrone]

The same fans who won't be cheering for any team in the postseason anyway? I wouldn't want to play in Sandusky's shadow either.

Nor would I, but there has to be some added pressure from the fanbase in general on the players to stay together as a team: "We'll show everyone how this team responds to all this unfair negativity!" or "Our players would never bail out on the school!" Perhaps there is also some peer pressure from the teammates who have no choice but to stay, as well. It's a difficult decision, I'm sure, and a very tough place to be in.

[Darth Fanboy]

Nor would I, but there has to be some added pressure from the fanbase in general on the players to stay together as a team: "We'll show everyone how this team responds to all this unfair negativity!" or "Our players would never bail out on the school!" Perhaps there is also some peer pressure from the teammates who have no choice but to stay, as well. It's a difficult decision, I'm sure, and a very tough place to be in.

Well for every Penn State fan or player that would give a transfer shit, ther eis at least one fan or player at another school that would be quite happy to welcome them elsewhere (except for the player who loses a roster spot as a result but they probably aren't a scholarship player anyway.)

[Havok]

Allowing the Penn State players to transfer with no penalty eases my stance on the punishment the program gets since it no longer effects them if they don't want it to.

[Lord Relvenous]

Allowing the Penn State players to transfer with no penalty eases my stance on the punishment the program gets since it no longer effects them if they don't want it to.

You didn't anticipate that? Even SMU players turned into free agents after the death penalty and they were directly involved with the situation in many cases, so I saw no indicators that Penn State players wouldn't when they had little to no knowledge of it.

[Havok]

I anticipated it in a Death Penalty. I thought it would be a possibility in a sanction case. I wasn't however just arguing for the football players. All the student athletes would have suffered in a DP.

[CarsonPalmer]

I predict a lot of players leaving in the spring. This is a little late in the game to change schools, so why rush a decision now when you can have the same choice with better opportunities? That means they might do well this year but will be decimated next year. Even if their starters are Bigt Ten caliber, they'll have absolutely no depth.

The only thing I don't get is some of the, well, gloating aimed at people who had previously admired Joe Paterno. Flashback to June 2011-give the average man in Pennsylvania a reason not to think well of Joe Paterno (or, for that matter, Jerry Sandusky, who was thought of as a gregarious, charitable man). It's bitterly disappointing to be let down by people you thought were good men. Since my father was a high school football coach (and an honest one who genuinely took a deep interest in his players and is in contact with many years later), I've always known a lot of high school teacher/coach combinations. The good ones (and by good I mean the ones who were Denzel Washington from Remember the Titans and not Jon Voight from Varsity Blues) admired Penn State because they won with high academic standards and without cheating on recruiting or by pumping players up with anabolic steroids. Paterno deserves what he got, but I find no pleasure or joy in his fall; he was proof you could be a winner and a good man who did good in the world, only now he isn't.

What happened is deeply depressing, especially since he wasn't a fraud. He did all that good, and it didn't stop him from making such a horrendous choice at the end. No matter how high you climb, you can still fall off the mountain.

[Thanas]

Actually, the high standards thing was a total fraud since more and more stories have come out how he privately tried to get people to lower standards and have football players be exempt even from punishment for criminal cases.

Turns out he was just like every other proverbial college coach.

[Block]

So was the not using sleazy recruiting practices. There were several cases since '06 where PSU sent "silent commits" on to other schools on recruiting visits along with recruits who were undecided to do negative recruiting against the hosting school. Derrick Williams was one of those.

[Tsyroc]

Yesterday some bent out of shape trustees said they were going to file suit against the NCAA for the sanctions. Today a bunch of former players said the same.

This could potentially cause even more problems for PSU, like putting the 4 year death penalty back on the table.

A poster on the ESPN boards suggested that PSU might have a shot going for an anti-trust law suit against the NCAA but there seems to be precedent against them. I think UNLV tried it when the basketball team got into trouble and they lost, and when teams like Boise State and Utah tried to go after the BCS for anti-trust violation they lost because they have more access now than they did before the BCS even if it is a monopoly.

[Lord Relvenous]

How do the BSU and Utah efforts have any relevance to this?

The suit should put the Death Penalty back on the table. Obviously, Penn State doesn't get it. The punishment given was not enough to sufficiently humble them and make them realize the disgusting lows their football program sank to. I wasn't really in favor of the Death Penalty before, but the reaction of the Penn State community justifies it, I'd say. They obviously haven't learned their lesson.

[Tsyroc]

How do the BSU and Utah efforts have any relevance to this?

The suit should put the Death Penalty back on the table. Obviously, Penn State doesn't get it. The punishment given was not enough to sufficiently humble them and make them realize the disgusting lows their football program sank to. I wasn't really in favor of the Death Penalty before, but the reaction of the Penn State community justifies it, I'd say. They obviously haven't learned their lesson.

They only have relevance in the sense that PSU's only chance against the NCAA is to try for an anti-trust ruling against the organization and the BSU / Utah efforts along those lines against the BCS essentially show that it is extremely unlikely that Penn State would win an anti-trust suit against the NCAA. So the various groups who are trying to challenge the current sanctions are likely wasting their time and may be making things worse for Penn State.

I'm not sure the school should have much to worry about from former players and coaches suing but having some of the members of the board of trustees might be enough to irritate the NCAA into more sanctions.

[Lord Relvenous]

Yeah, I'm looking less at the players and more at the trustees. Former players have only the alumni connection, but trustees should be influences and guided by the school itself. If the school can't control the actions of its trustees, it still has problems.

[Thanas]

They can't be that stupid, can they?

[FSTargetDrone]

Nine players out so far but the coach expects no more transfers:

August 8, 2012

Coach Bill O'Brien confident rest of team will stay

By Stephen Pianovich

Collegian Staff Writer

There has obviously been a lot of attention paid to the nine players who have transferred from Penn State in the last 10 days, but Bill O'Brien is much more concerned with the 103 players left on the team.

"People have talked to me a lot about the kids that have left, and that's fine," O'Brien, the first-year head football coach, said. "And I respect those guys, they made individual decisions. But I think we have to start focusing, like I've said all along, on the kids that are here."

Though Penn State has lost some key members off its roster as recently as Saturday, O'Brien -- who was speaking after the team's first practice of training camp Monday -- doesn't think any more players will jump ship.

"I'm very confident that the guys that are here today are committed, and again, it's day to day. But I'm confident in these guys, they got up at 5:15 this morning and they came out and practiced. It wasn't great, it wasn't pretty, but there were some good plays out here and we just have to keep getting better."

The two most notable losses for the Nittany Lions were those of Silas Redd and Justin Brown, who would've been the team's leading returning rusher and receiver, respectively. Redd ran for 1,241 yards along with seven touchdowns last season, and has landed at Southern California. Meanwhile, Brown, who is now on Oklahoma's roster, caught 35 balls for 517 yards and two touchdowns a season ago.

Now O'Brien has to turn to players who were in backup roles just weeks ago to step up and be more productive.
In Brown's absence, Shawney Kersey and Allen Robinson -- who were listed at co-starters at one wide receiver position on a depth chart O'Brien issued in June -- are expected to get more looks.

Though Redd is gone, O'Brien said the offense isn't going to be revamped as sophomore Bill Belton takes over as the Lions' top running back.

"You don't have to retool everything, you know, next man up," O'Brien said. "It's Billy Belton's time to shine and like I said, he came out here today ready to go, and I expect him to do that every day. He's a good football player, and he was going to play this year. So, it's definitely going to affect the depth a little bit, but we're not retooling everything because one player left. This is about a whole team, not just one player."

Behind Belton, Derek Day is practicing with the second team offense at tailback on Monday, and Curtis Dukes was with the third unit.

Other impact players the Lions lost include kicker/punter Anthony Fera, linebacker Khairi Fortt and quarterback Rob Bolden.

The nine transfers leave Penn State with 85 returning players along with 18 incoming freshmen. O'Brien said the players that stayed, especially the upperclassmen, have a sense of togetherness.

"I felt good about our football team, I felt good about their commitment to themselves, to each other, to our coaching staff and to this university," O'Brien said. "So, at the end of the day, I felt really good about keeping this team together. I know some guys left, but that's OK, that was their individual decision, we respect that decision, but we're moving forward with this football team."

O'Brien noted there were no significant injuries as of Monday, but both offensive tackle Donovan Smith and safety Jacob Fagnano were dealing with hamstring issues.

Many people have speculated how Penn State's record would be impacted by the transfers and have guessed how many wins and losses the team would have this season after the nine players left.

O'Brien isn't one of those people.

"I'm not going to get into predictions, but I just want us to go out there and play mistake-free football, play tough football, I want us to compete and I want go out there with the expectation to win every single game," O'Brien said. "We take it as 12 one-game seasons and you know, when November rolls around, we'll see where we're at. But right now, we're working really hard to get to that point."

Also, a 5th prospective student has decommitted.