"The Walking Dead" Season 2 Part II Discussion (Spoilers)

[Meest]

Next weeks preview seems like a tease, Rick and Shane showdown is more of a season finale event. They will milk the tension for sure, the preview shows them about to fight but then it looks like they might have to team up to survive. Just hope the other plotlines don't get lost while Rick and Shane drama goes on.

[Block]

I would argue that. The zombies in the barn were a danger, and Herschel was wrong to believe that they were merely "sick" and could be saved (he said as such when they found him in the bar).

Herschel was wrong, but the weren't a threat. They'd been locked in there for weeks, maybe months and had made no efforts to escape, there was no damage to the walls, they weren't banging on the doors trying to get out, they were just there.

I watched that episode with Otis and Shane, and together, they weren't going to make it back. By the time Shane left Otis for dead, Otis was completely exhausted, Shane was still limping from the window jump, and they were surrounded by zombies.

I watched it too, and I don't agree. The zombies were not all around them. They were behind them only, as evidenced by Shane limping along to the car without having to pass anymore zombies after shooting Otis. Otis may have been exhausted but he had enough to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Shane just picked the easiest route.

[FSTargetDrone]

It'd be interesting to get more flashbacks of how the whole pre-Rick group got together. We know that they encountered Carol, Ed, and Sophia on the highway out of town, but I wonder where they ran into Dale, Andrea & sister, and the other people.

I think we can forget about seeing too many more flashbacks. Glenn Mazzara, the Executive Producer and writer of the show, has stated on his Twitter account in response to questions about flashbacks:

19 February:

There was a plan to film a flashback of Otis capturing zombie Sophia & putting her in the barn. I nixed it.

And about 7 hours ago:

Flashbacks take me out of the story.

You can get on Twitter and ask him questions and he responds to them pretty quickly. I asked if Sophia was bandaged on her neck and he said, "just a bite, no bandage"

I don't especially like the answer because it sure as hell looks like there is something between her neck and shoulder on her left side, just under her hair, but that's the answer I got.

I wonder if we'll finally find out what Dr. Crazypants told Rick in "TS-19" at the end of this season.

Andrew Lincoln talks to The Washington Post:

‘Walking Dead’ star Andrew Lincoln says even wife doesn’t know answer to show’s big mystery

By Associated Press, Published: February 15

NEW YORK — Andrew Lincoln, who stars as Sheriff Rick Grimes in “The Walking Dead,” says he loves a secret.

That’s partly why Lincoln has told no one the answer to what’s become the biggest mystery of the AMC zombie drama: What scientist Dr. Jenner whispered to Rick in the season one finale.

“Not even my wife knows what he whispered to me,” Lincoln said in an interview Wednesday.

Lincoln said that in keeping the secret he feels he is being true to his character in the show.

“He chooses not to tell people so why would I tell,” Lincoln said of the sheriff.

What was said has only been heard by a handful of people, and the mystery has become the object of intense scrutiny by fans.

Lincoln said he realized just how curious people were when a show editor revealed he had scrolled through hours of show footage and listened in on radio traffic to find the only two takes where the brief remarks were audible. The cast says the contents of the conversation will be revealed this season.

Lincoln, who says the comments are “pivotal” for Rick, hints that the message was not good news.

“This is a scientist who seemingly held all the cards to what this epidemic is about and I do think, you know, you would imagine he would have something of value to say on that matter,” Lincoln said. “Well, he chose to kill himself.”

The actor also said that Rick and his ragged group of survivors will likely leave the farm where they’ve taken refuge this season.

“Something happens and they realize very quickly that the farm is not as secure as they may think,” he said.

The series continues Sunday at 9 p.m. Eastern.

[Guardsman Bass]

I didn't realize until now how perfect it would be dramatically if Merle were Spoiler

the Governor of Evil Town in the TV series. Rick loses a hand in the comic if I recall correctly, and that sounds just like the type of thing Merle would do to Rick - take his hand in exchange for the hand Merle himself had to cut off.

EDIT: Thanks for pointing me in the direction of that twitter feed.

That interview with Lincoln convinces me even more that Jenner told him everyone was "infected". Especially considering the point about Jenner was in the "know" on the epidemic, and chose to kill himself.

[FSTargetDrone]

EDIT: Thanks for pointing me in the direction of that twitter feed.

That interview with Lincoln convinces me even more that Jenner told him everyone was "infected". Especially considering the point about Jenner was in the "know" on the epidemic, and chose to kill himself.

No problem. He said again today that there will be no flashbacks and I replied that they can be effectively used to flesh out a character, comparing how he or she was before to now, but I guess the man just doesn't like flashbacks. It's too bad. Last week, I think, someone pointed out how the were used on Lost and he said something to the effect that that isn't the direction he is interested in going.

Incidentally, here are all of the Walking Dead actors who are on Twitter. Most of the regulars are on Twitter with the exception of Lincoln, Berthal and DeMunn, I think.

[Guardsman Bass]

Now this is interesting. It looks like the theory about Merle replacing the Governor in the Spoiler

whole "Evil Town and Prison" arc is wrong, since they just hired an actor to play the Governor in Season 3.

Season 3 is also going to be even longer than Season 2, with 16 episodes versus Season 2's 13. I can't say I'm surprised, considering how phenomenal the show's ratings have been for a cable series.

[FSTargetDrone]

Well, Shane is still a problem. At this point I'd say he's a bigger liability than Randall. And we know barely anything about Randall.

[Guardsman Bass]

I liked this episode more than the previous two.

The farm scenes were a bit of a slow-down, but they didn't ruin the excellent tension and drama of the Shane/Rick scenes at the facility. Although I do wonder why the Walkers didn't come smashing through the glass in response to their very loud fight - it must have been some tough window glass.

I agree that Shane's a big problem. He didn't really seem to accept Rick's authority at the end of the episode, and the next episode preview confirmed that by showing his plotting with Andrea. There's also his deliberately ignoring the lone walker on the way back, twice, which is probably foreshadowing for a mass Walker attack on the farm in the final or semi-final episode of this season. The same thing happened in Season One, when they killed the lone Walker who turned up near their base camp, and then didn't realize the danger this potentially represented.

We got a hint of the "everybody comes back" rule with the two zombie cops, neither of whom had any discernible bites. Assuming, of course, that that's the Big Secret that Dr. Jenner whispered to Rick. I thought we might also get a hint with the suicidal sister dying and coming back, but she didn't go through with it (and it's too early in the season).

Next episode looks tense. Darryl is finally back in action, and angry. Shane is brooding and commiserating with Andrea again.

EDIT: Another thumbs up for the show acknowledging the ammunition problem. The whole "guns are a two-edged sword when killing zombies" element has been well done in the series so far - guns may be very effective for killing them, but the loud gunshots also draw them from all over.

[FSTargetDrone]

I am really curious how they are going to handle the situation with Randall. He hasn't actually done anything wrong (assuming no nefarious intent). True, he was antagonistic towards Rick, Glenn and Herschell, but from his point of view he was defending his small group and had no idea who Rick & Co. were, nor their intent. I think I'm going to have a real problem if Rick's group just decides to murder him. I can't imagine the group is all going to agree to do it (especially Dale) and even if they do go through it, it's going to poison things. The sneak peak featuring the noose is odd. Are they going to march Randall into the barn and string him up execution-style? Because I'm having a real hard time believing that Rick is going to actually bring himself to kill Randall when and if the time comes given how he pulled him off of the fence (he healed fast, eh?) in the first place. Rick could have justifiably left Randall behind to be killed because there was an actual threat and time was running out. But actively putting him to death seems like quite another thing. They may as well just drive him out away from the farm again, tell him they are letting him go and then put a bullet in his head when he isn't expecting it. Or simply pull him out of the car and shoot him quickly (or even knife him), well away from the farm. That would be the most humane thing to do. But if it's done, it's going to be Rick or Shane. I can't even see Darryl doing it, let alone any of the others, despite any group decision.

[Akhlut]

Just me, or did it look like the zombies were following the car? I think that might lead to the walkers invading the farm before the last episode of the season.

Also, Shane looked rather surprised when Rick came driving back shooting with Randall taped to the driver's seat.

I think I'm going to have a real problem if Rick's group just decides to murder him. I can't imagine the group is all going to agree to do it (especially Dale) and even if they do go through it, it's going to poison things. The sneak peak featuring the noose is odd. Are they going to march Randall into the barn and string him up execution-style?

Considering Darryl's channeling Jack Bauer, I think it might be an intimidation technique.

That would be the most humane thing to do. But if it's done, it's going to be Rick or Shane. I can't even see Darryl doing it, let alone any of the others, despite any group decision.

Or Andrea, since I think she wants to prove something to Lori about being able to protect the group just as well as the men.

I'd think Rick's group would be better off if they made the hard decision to brain Shane and Andrea to death, though.

[JME2]

Good episode; the season's regaining momentum. And while some of the steam has been let out of the kettle, it's not over yet.

[Guardsman Bass]

There's an interesting interview with Rob Kirkman, the series creator, over at EW.com.

Among other things, the lone zombie Shane sees is supposed to be a sign of how the dense zombie populations in the cities are starting to spread outwards in search of food. A lot of rural and suburban areas are going to become much less safe.

[Alyeska]

Good episode. Nice exchange between Shane and Rick. Shane did not come across as a psychopath. He came across someone who defends the people he cares about aggressively. Makes impulsive decisions. Shane telling the story of his going to try and save Rick is a good reminder of his humanity. He does care for people. Shane and Rick needed that fight.

And of course the spoilers you guys talk about for next week indicated that all that was for naught. I really hope its a misleading teaser. This should have been a good way for Shane and Rick to come to terms. They have their fight. Shane thinks he is getting abandoned by Rick, but then sees Rick comes back and saves him. Rick says that he is more than willing to make the hard calls, but he won't make them impulsively.

So I do anticipate next weeks episode. Just what does Shane actually do? Does he react poorly to Rick claiming the baby, or what?

[JME2]

Among other things, the lone zombie Shane sees is supposed to be a sign of how the dense zombie populations in the cities are starting to spread outwards in search of food. A lot of rural and suburban areas are going to become much less safe.

Makes sense. And it explains the migrating zombies from the season premiere.

[Alyeska]

So, they've gone through a shitload of the ammo that Rick recovered with the gun bag, just this season.

But they have managed to acquire some equipment. Otis's revolver and rifle. Revolver from the suicide tent. Semi auto and shotgun from the bar. And two more semi autos from those two security guards.

Shane doesn't appear to have a spare magazine for his Glock. But from the combat we have seen, his gun has probably gone through 3 magazines. Call it 50 rounds of 9mm. Rick has emptied his revolver at least twice. So thats 12 of his .44 magnum rounds gone. They have probably gone through 30 shotgun shells. Training was for 4 people and with the additional combat Andrea went through they probably used up 60 rounds of ammo. Additional combat with a Glock at the Barn probably used up another 15.

The Bag of Guns originally had 700 "assorted rounds" when they encountered the nursing home. Since then they have given away a rifle, shotgun, and two handguns. The guns are less important than the ammo. They probably parted with an additional 50 rounds.

So out of 700 rounds they are down to less than 500 rounds. The suicide revolver used up all its ammo. Same with the shotgun from the bar. The semi auto from the bar along with the two Rick picked up probably still have ammo.

Yeah, I can see why Rick is advocating they start conserving ammo. They have used around 30% of their ammo in less than 2 months.

[FSTargetDrone]

Don't forget the IMDFB entry for TWD's weapons. There's a lot of discussion there about the particular weapons. Also, I could have sworn I saw Darryl in possession of some more arrows during the episode before this last one. Wonder where he found them.

Anyway, let's talk a bit more about the idea that perhaps Jenner told Rick that "everyone is infected" and will come back as a Walker. If that's true, what does it really matter? Unless the disease manifests itself before the person (who is not otherwise directly infected via Walker bite) dies, how is it a problem? People can just normally live and then after they die (naturally or otherwise) any other people with them will just have to shoot the corpse in the head before it reanimates. Granted, it will be an unpleasant thing friends or loved ones have to face concerning the recently deceased, but it can be dealt with.

But there is an apparent problem with "everyone is infected." We've seen dead bodies that did not appear to have ever been reanimated. When Carl found the knives on the dead driver in the pickup on the highway, it didn't look like the corpse had any sort of head trauma. The vehicles on the road were all jammed together but only a few seemed to have been involved in collisions, so I don't think that particular driver had cracked his head against the steering wheel, for example. And there were other bodies in cars on that road which did not move.

In any case, even if everyone who dies does eventually turn into a walker, it's hardly an insurmountable problem for the survivors. At lease it's not that much more of a problem compared to everything else.

[Guardsman Bass]

Yeah, I can see why Rick is advocating they start conserving ammo. They have used around 30% of their ammo in less than 2 months.

It also re-emphasizes why they need to find a secure place to hunker down. On the road, they're constantly at risk of running into zombies, and potentially getting swarmed. Whereas a safe place could be fortified to reduce the need to use fire-arms (good fences and earth barriers would do wonders).

If they have to be constantly using guns, they're either very unlucky or doing something wrong.

Don't forget the IMDFB entry for TWD's weapons. There's a lot of discussion there about the particular weapons. Also, I could have sworn I saw Darryl in possession of some more arrows during the episode before this last one. Wonder where he found them.

Same here. Maybe he keeps some disassembled in his bag, although that's a weak explanation.

Anyway, let's talk a bit more about the idea that perhaps Jenner told Rick that "everyone is infected" and will come back as a Walker. If that's true, what does it really matter? Unless the disease manifests itself before the person (who is not otherwise directly infected via Walker bite) dies, how is it a problem? People can just normally live and then after they die (naturally or otherwise) any other people with them will just have to shoot the corpse in the head before it reanimates. Granted, it will be an unpleasant thing friends or loved ones have to face concerning the recently deceased, but it can be dealt with.

I could see some potential difficulties if or when people start assembling in larger communities again. An outbreak of disease that rapidly kills a decent-sized chunk of the community could start a wave of zombification all over again when the diseased dead re-animate. That's a serious problem in the post-Zombie Apocalypse world, with the medical system down and potential contaminants of groundwater everywhere.

There's also some other, more personal complications for people sharing the same house. Imagine sharing a bed with your spouse, who then unfortunately dies in his/her sleep and bites you in your sleep.

But there is an apparent problem with "everyone is infected." We've seen dead bodies that did not appear to have ever been reanimated. When Carl found the knives on the dead driver in the pickup on the highway, it didn't look like the corpse had any sort of head trauma. The vehicles on the road were all jammed together but only a few seemed to have been involved in collisions, so I don't think that particular driver had cracked his head against the steering wheel, for example. And there were other bodies in cars on that road which did not move.

I'm mystified by that as well. My initial thought was that it could be proof against the "everyone infected" argument, but it seems like it's just going to be a plot hole. I wonder if anyone ever asked Kirkman about it.

Probably not, since he doesn't seem really interested in telling us about many of the events that happened just before and during the Zombie Apocalypse.

[Dread Not]

Perhaps the infection wasn't as widespread when those people died and people who are already dead can't be infected. After all, it would probably be much harder for the pathogen to infect someone's brain if they're not breathing, eating or drinking and their heart isn't pumping blood through their body.

[jcow79]

Don't forget the IMDFB entry for TWD's weapons. There's a lot of discussion there about the particular weapons. Also, I could have sworn I saw Darryl in possession of some more arrows during the episode before this last one. Wonder where he found them.

He's been making more. I believe this was from the episode "Nebraska"

[Alyeska]

Rick and Shane were smart though. They scavenged some nice supplies. Another gun or two, some gear. And most importantly, they got a ton of extra gas. I saw Shane sitting on top of those gas cans in the back of the car.

[FSTargetDrone]

Aside from Rick using the face shield in the first episode when he whacked his first walker, Morales and T-Dog using sports equipment as soft armor while attacking some walkers, and then Rick and the group in the department store using rubber gloves and white doctor's-type coats (while gutting the dead walker to extract its innards), none of these people (other than Dr. Jenner) have used any real protection. We saw Andrea casually sitting in a pickup truck bed full of dead walkers, Darryl gutting another walker with no real protection and on and on. They aren't exactly being sticklers for hygienic behavior around these things. One the one hand, it's hard to see why they should not at least be using disposable gloves any time they are handling remains of dead walkers, on the other hand it may not be practical in tv terms to show this all of the time, face masks and the like.

[Akhlut]

At this point, with some of the hints going on now, isn't it rather possible that the majority of people who are still alive are, in fact, immune (if not highly resistant) to the disease that causes zombification? I mean, Shane was rubbing an open wound on a spot where zombies were licking up his blood while he was trapped in the bus. If he doesn't get infected in the next few episodes, then he should be pretty immune unless he experiences some enormous trauma that weakens his immune response.

Also, these people need to find some SCA heavy-weapons people and get their help. Medieval infantry weapons and armor would be very, very useful about now.

[Guardsman Bass]

At this point, with some of the hints going on now, isn't it rather possible that the majority of people who are still alive are, in fact, immune (if not highly resistant) to the disease that causes zombification? I mean, Shane was rubbing an open wound on a spot where zombies were licking up his blood while he was trapped in the bus. If he doesn't get infected in the next few episodes, then he should be pretty immune unless he experiences some enormous trauma that weakens his immune response.

It's probably just a plot hole, since they were more concerned about it in Season One and then seemed to forget about it.

Also, these people need to find some SCA heavy-weapons people and get their help. Medieval infantry weapons and armor would be very, very useful about now.

It would be nice to have some heavier weapons, although they'd only really be useful against individual or small groups of zombies. The large groups can move at almost a slow jog when they smell "food", which means they'd just swarm you if you stopped to bash a few of their skulls in.

[Col. Crackpot]

What caught my attention was Rick and Shane's conversation about winter. Human flesh freezes, living or dead. It would make sense, come winter, to gather up some jeeps and a plow truck an head north to make the most of it. Georgia is know for it's winter and a long period of ice and cold would be a natural defense.

[Guardsman Bass]

What caught my attention was Rick and Shane's conversation about winter. Human flesh freezes, living or dead. It would make sense, come winter, to gather up some jeeps and a plow truck an head north to make the most of it. Georgia is know for it's winter and a long period of ice and cold would be a natural defense.

It actually might be more devastating if they had a winter that had alternating stretches of above- and below-freezing temperature weather. The repeated freeze-thaw cycles would turn the zombies into flesh with the consistency of hamburger, unless they have magic anti-freeze in their blood (like World War Z zombies).

I think we have some Walking Dead comic readers on the board. Has Kirkman ever talked about this in the comics? He made a "winter is coming" joke in the interview I linked to up-thread.