Chuck Finale (SPOILERS)

[Alkaloid]

Did anyone else see it? I have a huge rant I'm halfway through writing about the way this show spiraled so suddenly and dramatically, it's practically an essay, that's haw annoyued about it I am, but for now it's enough to say that all these call backs to the first season and montages really just make me sad for how good the show used to be. That's what you get for pandering to fucking shippers I suppose.

[Thanas]

I haven't seen the show save for one episode. It seemed like popcorn stuff, not on the level of similar popcorn shows like Burn notice, but kinda worse. TBH, the "shipper stuff" gave the episode at least some grounding, without it would have been pretty bad stuff.

I'd be interesting in reading it, but in the correct forum. Moved, feel free to post.

[Block]

I haven't seen the show save for one episode. It seemed like popcorn stuff, not on the level of similar popcorn shows like Burn notice, but kinda worse. TBH, the "shipper stuff" gave the episode at least some grounding, without it would have been pretty bad stuff.

I'd be interesting in reading it, but in the correct forum. Moved, feel free to post.

The first two seasons of Chuck were much more interesting than Burn Notice, but after that the quality fell off drastically. Season 3 was flat out atrocious, Brandon Rousch I think his name is(superman in the latest movie), may be the worst actor I've ever seen and made scenes that were supposed to be emotional and/or exciting just boring.

[Alkaloid]

That's not quite true, he plays an excellent villian. I think it's because with his dead eyes and creepy doll like hair he actually looks like a sociopath. But yeah, more or less two good seasons, a mediocre one, a bad one and an atrocious one.

(Also I'm really sorry about the spelling there. Not enough sleep, too little coffee I think)

[Block]

That's not quite true, he plays an excellent villian. I think it's because with his dead eyes and creepy doll like hair he actually looks like a sociopath. But yeah, more or less two good seasons, a mediocre one, a bad one and an atrocious one.

(Also I'm really sorry about the spelling there. Not enough sleep, too little coffee I think)

I thought he was a terrible villian. Hell, Chevy Chase was a better one than him. Timothy Dalton was better too, although the script for his episodes was pretty weak.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I'm pissed they brought Routh back to be NOT the 'big bad', and then some guy we've never seen before showed up.

Also, JEFFSTER LIVES!

[Adrian McNair]

Ah yes, Chuck. For me, the show pretty much peaked in the second season. It had the best set of episodes. After that point it was still enjoyable escapism with likeable characters but something had been lost and the quality declined.

I have to say as someone who viewed the show from the first season (technically I only started watching it once the third season had ended) to the last, I have mixed feelings about the series final. On one hand it really did feel like a farewell as a conclusion should, what with Chuck's friends and family going their separate ways (I appreciated the continuity references as well). On the other it's disappointing that they ended it all with that tiresome cliche- the amnesia induced character reset. Though it is implied that Sarah will eventually get all of her memories back there's no guarantee that she'll be the same person. It still feels like the person we've been following for five seasons, character development and all, has been lost for good. It's a rather dark way to end such a light-hearted series, to be honest.

Maybe that plot-line would have worked far better if, as has been mentioned before, Shaw (minus the Intersect) was the big bad of the final story arc as opposed to Quinn (who was a one-episode villain at best. He just wasn't recurring antagonist material). It would have had far more weight if Chuck had almost lost his wife to the man that murdered his father rather than some ex-CIA renegade who came out of nowhere. It just didn't make sense that a character like Shaw, given his history with Team Bartowski, would be relegated to one guest spot in the season. Just reverse Quinn and Shaw's roles in the season and it flows better.

[Alkaloid]

Shaw wasn't really good for much more than his run, I'd say after they beat him for the second time he should have been done. A 'remnants of Fulcrum' would have worked, sort of a vengeful cabal trying to take down the team, because Fulcrum was the only long standing bad guy that was any good.

That's what gets me though. Sarah Walker died, three episodes before the finale and we didn't know it. All we got was Chuck moping and everyone telling him to move on, and a 'she'll be back.' Casey and Walker were friends, good friends, and their final interaction was an impersonal handshake. Circa season two or three, if she had died Chuck and Casey would have spent five episodes remorselessly hunting her killer like they did Shaw, and it would have been fantastic and had a sense of epic. This was just flat and overly sappy.

[Alkaloid]

Also, if a mod could change the title to reflect spoilers? There are some spoliers in here now, and i doubt anyone will care but you never know.

[Thanas]

Done.

[Thanas]

On topic - though I haven't seen any part of this finale, I wonder why you blame shippers for it.. After all, having the main character "die" does not seem to be what IMO a shipper would like. Again, haven't seen the show.

[Adrian McNair]

Shaw wasn't really good for much more than his run, I'd say after they beat him for the second time he should have been done. A 'remnants of Fulcrum' would have worked, sort of a vengeful cabal trying to take down the team, because Fulcrum was the only long standing bad guy that was any good.

Yeah, Fulcrum was the best developed villainous organisation of the lot. The writers gave us enough information about their motivations (they were a rogue group dissatisfied with how the US Government was waging the War on Terror with "Cold War tactics") and they were a consistent threat unlike the Ring (in the season two premiere alone they blow up the new Intersect and Director Graham). The transition from Fulcrum to the Ring in season three was somewhat jarring.

What I meant when I brought up Shaw was that he was a pre-existing villain with a definite grudge and past dealings with Chuck unlike Quinn. Quinn could simply have been another member of the rogue CIA conspiracy that Clyde Decker was a part of rather than a major baddie.

This Fulcrum remnant arc would need more of a build-up than what Quinn got but it seems like a solid idea. I think it would need to be a season long arc devoid of any filler episodes. But who could be the main villain in charge of this operation? It's too bad they used and killed off Ray Wise in season four. He could've been a great final overarching opponent for Team Bartowski. Anyone who has seen his incredibly fun performance as the Devil in Reaper would probably agree.

That's what gets me though. Sarah Walker died, three episodes before the finale and we didn't know it. All we got was Chuck moping and everyone telling him to move on, and a 'she'll be back.' Casey and Walker were friends, good friends, and their final interaction was an impersonal handshake. Circa season two or three, if she had died Chuck and Casey would have spent five episodes remorselessly hunting her killer like they did Shaw, and it would have been fantastic and had a sense of epic. This was just flat and overly sappy.

That would have also been acceptable just so long as her death is suitably spectacular (she goes down fighting and takes down a lot of scumbags in the process). One of the major problems with Season Five was Sarah's victimisation. She gets savagely beaten up by Shaw, she's held in freezing confinement and nearly dies, her former handler puts her through the wringer (and she only won that fight because he was stupid enough to turn his back to her) and finally she's tortured and brainwashed by Quinn.

[phongn]

Ah yes, Chuck. For me, the show pretty much peaked in the second season. It had the best set of episodes. After that point it was still enjoyable escapism with likeable characters but something had been lost and the quality declined.

A combination of the writer's strike, NBC taking their time to decide on renewing the show (over and over) and major budget cuts did this to Chuck. Essentially, they lost their best writers to other shows, the strike itself brought the concept of the "half season" coupled with the writers never knowing if they'd be renewed, and they had budget cuts to boot. It's a small miracle the show did as well as it did.

[Alkaloid]

On topic - though I haven't seen any part of this finale, I wonder why you blame shippers for it.. After all, having the main character "die" does not seem to be what IMO a shipper would like. Again, haven't seen the show.

Well, it's been my experience with shippers that while they scream that their favorite two randomly selected characters should hook up, they don't really want that, and thrive on the angst that either exists or they see because they are crazy people. In this case, after two and a half seasons of standard 'will they won't they,' Chuck and Sarah settled into a more or less stable relationship, especially for TV land.

The last couple of episodes they had all of Sarah's memories from slightly before she met Chuck wiped, so to all intents and purposes the Sarah Walker that had existed was dead, but implied that they would slowly come back, so, and this is the showrunners own words, 'Sarah and Chuck get to fall in love all over again.'

I'd call that pandering to shippers because the only people satisfied by it are the sort that have some sort of emotional investment in the two characters going to be together, rather than in actual plot, character development or story resolution.

[Thanas]

Hmmm. Yeah, okay, I can see the final resolution going that way, though I doubt what happened before was a great delight for shippers. Anyway, I don't really disagree on the quality of the story - though not having seen it I think memory wipes are pretty lazy and stupid.