NFL 2011

[Darth Fanboy]

Oh and before I forget...Sixburgh baby.

[Thanas]

I half expected that response from you Thanas, without you bothering to read any followup where Clark reiterated his comment*. Clark's statement is in effect to people only now coming out after the fact about these bounties, but nobody came forward during the whole thing to say "this is wrong." He was basically calling guys out for only doing the right thing when it became an issue of self preservation.

Do you expect me to read every ESPN page or follow them religously? All I saw is that twitter statement.

While that does indeed sound different than his twitter statement, he still makes the unproven assertion that nobody spoke out when this was ongoing. Which is kinda doubtful considering NFL security apparently has heaps of proof.

[The Spartan]

In non-shitty news, I saw on ESPN today that we got a deal in place for Arian Foster.

[Thanas]

Yeah. Thanks for not paying him monster money, makes it easier for us with Rice.

And the saints SB should be voided.

[Block]

Yeah. Thanks for not paying him monster money, makes it easier for us with Rice.

And the saints SB should be voided.

Why exactly? Lots of teams have systems like this in place whether they admit it or not, I know for a fact that the Ravens have something similar in place, not identical, but there's points awarded for knocking people out and various other things and the person with the most points at the end gets a trip and a trophy. The Broncos had this in place a while back too. The Redskins had an identical system to the Saints.

[Thanas]

Yeah. Thanks for not paying him monster money, makes it easier for us with Rice.

And the saints SB should be voided.

Why exactly? Lots of teams have systems like this in place whether they admit it or not,

It is one thing to pay for big hits or interceptions.

It is another to pay for deliberate injuries.

I know for a fact that the Ravens have something similar in place, not identical, but there's points awarded for knocking people out and various other things and the person with the most points at the end gets a trip and a trophy. The Broncos had this in place a while back too. The Redskins had an identical system to the Saints.

Source?

[Block]

My brother, who works as a producer for Channel 4 in Baltimore and knows a number of the players personally.

[Thanas]

My brother, who works as a producer for Channel 4 in Baltimore and knows a number of the players personally.

Yeah, right.

You're sure you are talking about points being awarded for deliberate injuries? If so, go tell your brother to report it to the NFL immediately. That crap got no place in the NFL, no matter what team.

[Block]

My brother, who works as a producer for Channel 4 in Baltimore and knows a number of the players personally.

Yeah, right.

You're sure you are talking about points being awarded for deliberate injuries? If so, go tell your brother to report it to the NFL immediately. That crap got no place in the NFL, no matter what team.

I didn't say deliberate injuries did I? It's also something that's had a place in the NFL longer than I've been alive, so I don't know what game you watch. You think the Raiders under Madden weren't encouraged to play as dirty as possible?

[Darth Fanboy]

The "unproven assertion"? As of right now, unless the NFL comes forward and tells us something, then it is pretty reasonable to believe nobody came forward while this was ongoing, and it certainly doesnt appear to have been a player or coach.

[Havok]

It was a two year investigation. Someone came forward.

We got helmet stickers for leaving opposing players on the ground in high school. It was more intense the couple of years of college, just less advertised.

[Thanas]

I didn't say deliberate injuries did I?

Then the situations are not comparable. At all.

It's also something that's had a place in the NFL longer than I've been alive, so I don't know what game you watch. You think the Raiders under Madden weren't encouraged to play as dirty as possible?

And the NFL has moved on from that.

Look, as much as I hate some players and want them to get hit, I don't want them to suffer neck injuries and the like. That is the difference here and the line as far as I am concerned and the saints crossed it bigtime.

The "unproven assertion"? As of right now, unless the NFL comes forward and tells us something, then it is pretty reasonable to believe nobody came forward while this was ongoing, and it certainly doesnt appear to have been a player or coach.

2-year investigation, baby.

[CarsonPalmer]

It was a two year investigation. Someone came forward.

We got helmet stickers for leaving opposing players on the ground in high school. It was more intense the couple of years of college, just less advertised.

We got helmet stickers in high school for big hits, too-I'd say, though, that there is line (and not even a fine line) between trying to hit a guy so hard that he doesn't want to get back up and trying to intentionally injure a guy. One is a part of the way the game is played-the other is not (Steve Young howling "This is not the Hunger Games!" on SportsCenter last night was hilarious, though). Of course, Gregg Williams comes off the Buddy Ryan coaching tree, so I guess this shouldn't really be a surprise. At least the Saints didn't try to take a bounty out on a kicker.

From the league's perspective, though, there are a number of reasons they have to come down hard-

1. Spygate. If the Saints get off with less punishment than the Pats, there'll be hell to pay from a PR standpoint.

2. In light of the concussions issue, they can't be seen to tolerate this.

3. Morality or place in the game of bounties for injuring players aside, its clearly a salary cap violation and they have to be punished on that basis alone.

4. It taints every clean hit that the Saints have ever made-got to the quarterback a split second after the ball was away? Was that a good clean play or an attempt to injure? This is going to be the league's biggest concern-if the word "bounty" is in the air, a lot of clean hits look shady, and the Commissioner's Office is sure as hell going to be concerned with the way things look look.

[Darth Fanboy]

It was a two year investigation. Someone came forward.

A player? A coach? Did somebody come forward of their own accord or until after the NFL came to them and said, "You want us to go easy on you? Then tell us what you know." That's Clark's whole point. I would be interested in learning how the NFL first learned concretely of the bounties myself.

[Elfdart]

It was a two year investigation. Someone came forward.

We got helmet stickers for leaving opposing players on the ground in high school. It was more intense the couple of years of college, just less advertised.

We would get pelted with tampons in the next practice after the game for having the chance to knock a guy out and failing to do it.

[Elfdart]

From the league's perspective, though, there are a number of reasons they have to come down hard-

1. Spygate. If the Saints get off with less punishment than the Pats, there'll be hell to pay from a PR standpoint.

2. In light of the concussions issue, they can't be seen to tolerate this.

3. Morality or place in the game of bounties for injuring players aside, its clearly a salary cap violation and they have to be punished on that basis alone.

4. It taints every clean hit that the Saints have ever made-got to the quarterback a split second after the ball was away? Was that a good clean play or an attempt to injure? This is going to be the league's biggest concern-if the word "bounty" is in the air, a lot of clean hits look shady, and the Commissioner's Office is sure as hell going to be concerned with the way things look look.

There's also a tax issue since these cash bonuses are in fact taxable income. That's why Dan Fouts stopped giving cash bonuses to his linemen for not giving up sacks, and instead took them out to dinner at the restaurant of their choice. Walter Payton used to take his teammates and their families to Disneyland. Cash bonuses are going to get some guys in trouble with not only the NFL but the IRS and state and in some cases, city tax collectors because NFL players' weekly paychecks are taxed according to the city where their team is playing that week. So if a player gets a $1000 bonus from his teammates or coach for whacking Jay Cutler (something you shouldn't have to pay someone to do ), then he has to pay federal, state and municipal tax on that income and failure to report the income -let alone pay the tax- is a can of worms you really don't want to open.

[Thanas]

NFL

New Orleans Saints general manager Mickey Loomis failed to stop his team's "bounty" program after it was brought to his attention twice in the past two seasons.

Coach Sean Payton tried to deter an NFL investigation into the "bounty" scandal in 2010 by telling staffers to "get your ducks in a row," when notified league security was in New Orleans to interview team employees.

While former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams is the central figure in the scandal -- 22 to 27 players also have been implicated -- the roles of Payton and Loomis were highlighted in a league summary that was obtained by NFL Network and NFL.com on Tuesday.

Loomis and Payton, who had been silent since the NFL's investigation surfaced Friday, said took full responsibility for the violations in a statement released Tuesday.
[...]
The summary also found that in "early" 2010, when NFL security went to investigate Saints employees, Payton told his staff to, "get your ducks in a row." Payton is said to have been aware of the "bounty" program with an email from convicted felon and marketing agent Mike Ornstein confirming as much.

"Coach Payton also received an email from Ornstein committing $5,000 towards a bounty on an opposing quarterback, which the coach recognized as a pledge toward a bounty," the summary stated.

Ornstein, a marketing agent for former Saints running back Reggie Bush and a confidant of Payton's who pleaded guilty last year to illegally selling Super Bowl tickets, pledged $10,000 toward the quarterback bounty in 2009, according to the summary. On at least two occasions in 2011, Ornstein "pledged substantial sums toward a bounty on an opposing quarterback."

Gregg Williams is the central figure of the investigation, though, since the "bounty" program was alleged to have been overseen by him, which he acknowledged shortly after the league's finding surfaced Friday. According to the report, Williams, along with linebackers coach Joe Vitt, initially denied a "bounty" program in the 2010 investigation, as did former defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove.

Payton's done.

[Havok]

Wow, he may be. This whole situation could also put Brees on the market as well.

[Darth Fanboy]

Brees is franchise tagged, he can't be on the market. Unless you mean that the Saints will start shopping him or that Brees will hold out rather than come back to a clusterfuck of an organization.

If Brees leaves could the Saints make a play for Peyton Manning? Is that unrealistic?

[Havok]

Well, he ain't signing. He has made that clear. So don't be surprised if they trade him. There is no way he is sitting out a year. And after the year he had, he is going to want a monster contract.

[Thanas]

Brees also might want to get the heck out of there before people start asking him what he knew and when and if he condoned it. There are a lot of endorsements on the line for him as well as his image.

[Flagg]

Colts are fucking idiots. Letting the best QB in the NFL go? Retards. I hope Seattle picks him up.

[Thanas]

Colts are not idiots. They are heartless and think Manning's done. I for one hope he kicks their behind the next few years.

[Thanas]

“I hope somebody falls in love with me besides my fiancée.”

– Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III addressing draft reporters.

New RGIII downside: about to be murdered by fiancée.

[Alferd Packer]

I'm sure this will be taken down soon, but here's Peyton Manning's farewell-to-Indianapolis speech.