Amazing BBC documentary on the war

[Thanas]

in Afghanistan. It is called "our war". Everybody should go watch it.

I am currently watching the first part and I am amazed how they show the Taliban outthinking the allied troops and gaining lots of experiene (like IED making) due to Iraq. They also show amazing footage shot by one of the soldiers of the platoon they are following.

[Raj Ahten]

Thanas are you watching it online or on one of their TV channels?

Edit: I ask because you can't use BBC's iPlayer in the US and the show very well may not be part of BBC America's lineup.

[Thanas]

I actually recorded it off the BBC European satellite feed.


And holy crap, this show does suck you in emotionally. You really feel with the soldiers and the crappy situation.

[Old Peculier]

And holy crap, this show does suck you in emotionally. You really feel with the soldiers and the crappy situation.

Especially the second episode. There is also a BBC2 ('Our War' is BBC3) documentary called 'Afghanistan' (part 1: 'War Without End'; part 2, coming soon: 'The Battle for Helmand')

[Thanas]

I am also amazed at the professionalism shown by the British soldiers, even in the unedited footage shown. Completely different than the way Americans behave.

[Falkenhayn]

Just watched the series so far, and it's quite good. Made me go and order "Restrepo" off of Amazon.

They seem to react the same to a friend's death. Shock, mourning, payback, in that order.

[Stark]

Juxtaposing the documentary video with the interviews of them back in England is pretty powerful stuff.

[Cecelia5578]

I am also amazed at the professionalism shown by the British soldiers, even in the unedited footage shown. Completely different than the way Americans behave.

I'm curious-could you describe in detail what those differences are? I'm not disagreeing-if anything, my gut instinct probably says the same thing.

[bobalot]

I am also amazed at the professionalism shown by the British soldiers, even in the unedited footage shown. Completely different than the way Americans behave.

I have always got the feeling that some American troops actually think they are real life GI Joe, and their behaviour stems from that.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

It bears noting that America has around 10x as many soldiers in the Afghanistan theatre as the British do. The UK has the benefit of being able to pick the cream of the crop as far as which soldiers they deploy - America, not so much.

[Mr Bean]

I am also amazed at the professionalism shown by the British soldiers, even in the unedited footage shown. Completely different than the way Americans behave.

Thanas on the behalf of the US military you can go fuck yourself back to your conformable civilian life who's not been called on to deploy back into active warzones for the past decade time after time and see friends, family and loved ones die over there.

[evilsoup]

I am also amazed at the professionalism shown by the British soldiers, even in the unedited footage shown. Completely different than the way Americans behave.

Thanas on the behalf of the US military you can go fuck yourself back to your conformable civilian life who's not been called on to deploy back into active warzones for the past decade time after time and see friends, family and loved ones die over there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't seem to recall any reports of UK soldiers beating/raping Iraqi prisoners?

[Mr Bean]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't seem to recall any reports of UK soldiers beating/raping Iraqi prisoners?

On behalf of the US Military you can also go fuck yourself
Cpl Donald Payne of the Duke of Lancaster's Regiment
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5360432.stm

This literally took me five godamn seconds to find on Google(for the links) I already had the case in memory
Secondary link, systemic issues

The British soldiers responsible for the death of an Iraqi detainee were not just "a few bad apples", a public inquiry heard today.

Hotel receptionist Baha Mousa, 26, died in UK military custody in Basra, southern Iraq, in September 2003 after being subjected to humiliating abuse.

British troops in Iraq routinely used interrogation methods banned by the Government in 1972 and did not think they were illegal, the inquiry into his death was told.

Rabinder Singh QC, counsel for Mr Mousa's family and other Iraqis detained with him, said: "This case is not just about beatings or a few bad apples.

"There is something rotten in the whole barrel."

The inquiry has already heard how UK troops subjected Mr Mousa and his fellow detainees to abuse, including making them scream in an "orchestrated choir" and forcing one to dance like Michael Jackson.

It was also played a short video showing Corporal Donald Payne screaming obscenities at the hooded Iraqi prisoners, including Mr Mousa, calling them "apes".

Mr Singh said: "The official version of events was that nothing on that video was in fact illegal.

"What we saw on that video was a soldier trying to implement official policy, forcing detainees to get back into stress positions when they were clearly moaning and unable to maintain those positions.

"They are all shown hooded, again in accordance with orders, and again illegally."

Soldiers from the former Queen's Lancashire Regiment arrested Mr Mousa and the other detainees at Basra's Ibn Al Haitham hotel in the early hours of 14 September, 2003 and took them to Battle Group Main camp, known as BG Main.

[Mr Bean]

Here's another one, hell it's even called the "UK Abu Ghraib"
Guardian

[Old Peculier]

I am also amazed at the professionalism shown by the British soldiers, even in the unedited footage shown. Completely different than the way Americans behave.

Perhaps you would be similarly surprised to see the behaviour of US soldiers (marines, airmen etc.), in a similar documentary. On the other hand, perhaps not, as I have no idea what the typical behavior is of soldiers etc. from either, or any, nations. Do you truly think you do, and how?

It bears noting that America has around 10x as many soldiers in the Afghanistan theatre as the British do. The UK has the benefit of being able to pick the cream of the crop as far as which soldiers they deploy - America, not so much.

Not really, the size of the US Army & Marine Corps including reserves and National Guard is about ten times that of the British army plus the Royal Marines including Territorial Army and reserves.

[Thanas]

I am also amazed at the professionalism shown by the British soldiers, even in the unedited footage shown. Completely different than the way Americans behave.

Thanas on the behalf of the US military you can go fuck yourself back to your conformable civilian life who's not been called on to deploy back into active warzones for the past decade time after time and see friends, family and loved ones die over there.

Watch Gunner Palace and then watch this one. And then don't tell me that there is a difference in attitudes. Heck, just read Generation Kill.

Also, this is not just my opinion, but also the opinion of several vets. Some of them even post (or used to post) on this board.

But continue to be butthurt, it is pretty much all you are known for.

[Stark]

How does the emotional outburst refute the statement anyway? While the footage may not be edited it's certainly selected, so saying 'it shows xyz' needs examples to attack, and not news articles about things unrelated to the documentary.

[Mr Bean]

Watch Gunner Palace and then watch this one. And then don't tell me that there is a difference in attitudes. Heck, just read Generation Kill.

Care to provide some examples of extreme American lack of professionalism my fine Civilian expert?

Also, this is not just my opinion, but also the opinion of several vets. Some of them even post (or used to post) on this board.

Care to name your vets? I think the only ones you can name are the Anti-American Stereotypes you carry around in your head.

But continue to be butthurt, it is pretty much all you are known for.

On behalf of those everywhere who are not cowards and served their countries again, please go fuck yourself

[Stark]

Why does describing a documentary either make you a coward or require military service?

[Thanas]

Watch Gunner Palace and then watch this one. And then don't tell me that there is a difference in attitudes. Heck, just read Generation Kill.

Care to provide some examples of extreme American lack of professionalism my fine Civilian expert?

Did you even read Generation Kill? If so, Captain America would be one. Then of course there is the guy who ordered a bombardement of a civilian village just....because he was so goddamn incompetent? Also, how about the entire parade of hamming it up on Gunner Palace?

Care to name your vets?

I will ask them for permission first.

On behalf of those everywhere who are not cowards and served their countries again, please go fuck yourself

[/quote]

Butthurt bean. Instant classic.

A question - when did you serve in combat? Because if you did not serve in a combat unit but were something like an IT guy or pencil-pusher back home, far away from any battlefield, what makes you an authority on combat?

[JointStrikeFighter]

Did you even read Generation Kill? If so, Captain America would be one. Then of course there is the guy who ordered a bombardement of a civilian village just....because he was so goddamn incompetent? Also, how about the entire parade of hamming it up on Gunner Palace?

We can expand that to Encino man who couldn't call in artillery strikes properly and who duct taped his windows leading to the unit missing its turn at night and wasting several hours.

Oh what about ever youtube video ever of an airstrike featuring excessive US MILITARY WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOO? Protip; other militaries don't do that.

Does Bean really think the US military dont have an international reputation for behaving like a bunch of druken fratboys?

[Stark]

I think he's just offended that other countries have different attitudes towards the military. This British documentary has guys looking sheepish that they don't really have a good reason to sign up, because the cultural attitude is not what is it in America.

[Thanas]

Also Bean, I received permission from Kendall to name him. You might remember him. You are now going to declare him an anti-american stereotype living in my head as well?

[Lonestar]

Also Bean, I received permission from Kendall to name him. You might remember him. You are now going to declare him an anti-american stereotype living in my head as well?

I'm going to declare him "one" instead of "several".
Spoiler

German professionalism

I interact with the Aussies and Britishers damn near everyday at work. They are, if anything, less professional their US DoD uniformed personnel equilivants. At least they guys I speak to.

On my 2004-05 Deployment the Italian and German vessels in the AG or Arabian Sea resolutely refused to communicate with any American ship. At all. As far as they were concerned the only reason why they were there was because their political masters told them to be there, and damned if they actually did anything besides "go to point A, drop anchor".

There's professionalism, and there's "professionalism". If the German ideal of professionalism is to go sulk in the corner then whoop-de-do.

[Stark]

Is that a cue for non-Americans to spit the dummy and get cross? Or should it somehow change the content of the documentary?