The Walking Dead!

[FSTargetDrone]

From the comics; The zombies decay from weather and physical events. Bacterial decay, however appears to stop. The walkers respire because it's like an ingrained habit. Just like that child walker picked up the stuffed toy and carried it around.

Respiration is not a "habit" and it's nothing like the child picking up the toy. It's a function of the autonomic nervous system, like the heart pumping. Yes, you can control your breathing, but only for a short time.

What it does suggest is that since it seems there remains something of the automatic brain functions controlling breathing, it's also possible that the heartbeat remains in a Walker. Without blood-supplied oxygen, the muscles will soon die and Walkers won't be doing anything of the kind, never mind being a threat. However, the Walkers do not appear to bleed and their blackened blood seems thicker, more congealed, even when they suffer traumatic injury. If not oxygenated blood, then something else is supplying oxygen and is keeping the muscles alive "enough" to still work. Either that, or it's magic, and I am not going to accept that just yet.

The question of whether or not they digest what they eat is also interesting.

[Stofsk]

Wait wait wait

Wait

The dead are literally rising from their graves but you can't accept magic? lol

[Superman]

Overall, I like the show. I've always loved old school, slow moving, shoot 'em in the head zombies, and this show nailed it. I'm not thrilled about the overuse of CGI, but that's pretty much all cinema special effects these days. It looks good for what it is.

The only complaint I have is that the dialogue and character interactions are downright cheesy. At first I thought the acting was just bad, but then I realized it's the writing. Anyone else get that impression?

Wait wait wait

Wait

The dead are literally rising from their graves but you can't accept magic? lol

Come on. Magic is just silly.

[Xon]

Respiration is not a "habit" and it's nothing like the child picking up the toy.

Your point is invalid, they are freaking magically animated corpses.

Either that, or it's magic, and I am not going to accept that just yet.

In the very first episode we see a zombie that has been ripped in half still moving. All the flesh below it's ribcage is gone. Spoiler

[Chardok]

In the very first episode we see a zombie that has been ripped in half still moving. All the flesh below it's ribcage is gone.

Yes, but she was clearly dying when the Sheriff went back to her. she could barely move.

[Azazal]

In the very first episode we see a zombie that has been ripped in half still moving. All the flesh below it's ribcage is gone.

Yes, but she was clearly dying when the Sheriff went back to her. she could barely move.

Well to be fare, she did manage to drag herself several hundred yards. This does raise a question though, if a zombie can not feed, does it decay at a normal rate? She did look like road that had been sitting there for some time, were as other zombies that could hunt or at least feed seemed fresher. Which then leads to a follow up, does eating fresh meat keep a zombie "alive" This might explain why they do not attack each other and why they go after any living animal.

[Chardok]

In the very first episode we see a zombie that has been ripped in half still moving. All the flesh below it's ribcage is gone.

Yes, but she was clearly dying when the Sheriff went back to her. she could barely move.

Well to be fare, she did manage to drag herself several hundred yards. This does raise a question though, if a zombie can not feed, does it decay at a normal rate? She did look like road that had been sitting there for some time, were as other zombies that could hunt or at least feed seemed fresher. Which then leads to a follow up, does eating fresh meat keep a zombie "alive" This might explain why they do not attack each other and why they go after any living animal.

This certainly seems the most plausible explanation. Also - clearly the nervous system must be at least partially intact for the zombies to function. I wonder if shooting them in the lower back would disable their legs? (did the solder in the tank show any sign of CNS damage that would explain his non-movement before attacking the sheriff?)

[FSTargetDrone]

Respiration is not a "habit" and it's nothing like the child picking up the toy.

Your point is invalid, they are freaking magically animated corpses.

Either that, or it's magic, and I am not going to accept that just yet.

In the very first episode we see a zombie that has been ripped in half still moving. All the flesh below it's ribcage is gone. Spoiler

I know, I mentioned her at the end of the second page of this thread.

The problem we have is that magic doesn't really seem to "fit" in this universe, at least I can't imagine that that is the intent of the producers. Supernatural elements solves all of the problems. But can we accept that?

If we do not accept a supernatural explanation (which, I grant, makes everything easier), then the bodies of the Walkers seem to be "frozen" in a state of greatly-slowed decay. The bodies must require some sustenance, why else do they eat? Do they drink water? Apparently not. Why not?

If blood loss is an issue, which is does not seem to be, then the torn-in-half woman could have never crawled as far as she did. Her innards were hanging out, but there was nothing trailing behind her other than flattened grass.

If it is magic, then why should headshots even matter? If magic makes them go, then they should keep on going until they are blown to pieces. Clearly, the loss of legs doesn't stop them.

Frankly, if this is magic, then any kind of analysis of what we see is moot.

As an aside, I wonder if there are any uninfected humans on submarines in the WD universe...

By the way, the show has been renewed for a second season:

Adaptation, Comicbookland

The Walking Dead Renewed for Second Season

By Jason Boog on November 9, 2010 5:37 PM

After two blockbuster episodes, AMC renewed the comic book adaptation, The Walking Dead.

The debut of the zombie television show counted 5.3 million viewers and the second episode counted 4.7 million viewers. The second season will feature 13 episodes–just like another AMC hit, Mad Men.

AMC Charlie Collier had this statement: “No other cable series has ever attracted as many Adults 18-49 as The Walking Dead. This reaffirms viewers’ hunger for premium television on basic cable. We are so proud to be bringing back The Dead again, across the globe.”

Along with Agency Spy editor Kiran Aditham, we shared theories about future episodes on the Morning Media Menu. Press play below to listen.

[Stofsk]

Overall, I like the show. I've always loved old school, slow moving, shoot 'em in the head zombies, and this show nailed it. I'm not thrilled about the overuse of CGI, but that's pretty much all cinema special effects these days. It looks good for what it is.

I find the Romero type zombies to be hilariously un-scary to be honest, but the Snyder type from the remake where they're all sprinters who can run for miles, are really really scary.

The quicker a zombie is, the more believable the threat is IMO.

The only complaint I have is that the dialogue and character interactions are downright cheesy. At first I thought the acting was just bad, but then I realized it's the writing. Anyone else get that impression?

Yeah, kind of. I really liked the pilot because it did a great job of throwing someone like Rick into the deep end without giving him or us an explanation, so we followed him from the moment he woke up in the hospital to the end of the episode and empathised with him each step of the way. The problem is the show is quickly turning into an ensemble where we see other characters and how they react as well, and unless those reactions are done solidly what we're going to find is that the show will become the Rick and Everybody Else Survive a Zombie Apocalypse show. I mean it's episode 3 and we know he's going to join up with the other survivors and meet his wife and kid. I don't know what else will drive the rest of the season, and I guess we'll find out in the coming weeks, but if a big thing at the start was 'i need to find my wife and kid and anything that gets in the way is going to lose' and then next episode 'lol hey guys i missed you' then um, there has to be something else to drive the character development.

I could be wrong though, because I haven't seen any previews for the next episode, but I'd be pretty surprised if they don't have the husband and wife and child reunion next week.

Wait wait wait

Wait

The dead are literally rising from their graves but you can't accept magic? lol

Come on. Magic is just silly.

wat

There is literally no other explanation for how/why this is occurring. Basically God A WIZARD did it

Or not. But going 'why don't zombie bodies decay' is a bit silly when zombie bodies are already basically dead bodies that aren't behaving like dead bodies behave, so by that fact alone the standards and assumptions should be reevaluated and nothing should be taken for granted. Another one is the fallacy that 'well the survivors just need to outlast the zombies who will eventually die of starvation' you see a lot of as criticism against zombies. How does anyone know whether or not zombies will starve to death? Technically they're already dead. They might go into 'hibernation' mode or whatever, like that one in the tank, and we know zombies will eat anything if they're hungry enough, like the horse.

What I'd love to see is someone going 'well we need to actually study what's going on' because the idea that you can go camping out in the woods indefinitely isn't going to succeed for the survivors (how are they getting water and food, for a start, and other survival supplies which nobody is producing anymore but they will need constantly as the years go by). There's been a bit of that with various characters basing their actions on what has been observed as typical behaviour (loud noise attracts them, for example, as does smell) but they need to do more if they want to stay ahead.

[Azazal]

It's been as while since I read any of the comics, I as I recall the cause of zombifing is never confirmed, just theories, but I could be wrong

Part of me is hoping they find out the cause, I would like to see what they come up with, but sadly I fear will be on of the old stand byes, a "virus" or super-rabies, etc.. How come we never get something like a fungus or parasite that takes over the central nervous system once the person is dead?

[Superman]

I find the Romero type zombies to be hilariously un-scary to be honest, but the Snyder type from the remake where they're all sprinters who can run for miles, are really really scary.

The quicker a zombie is, the more believable the threat is IMO.

Yeah, I hear ya. I think what makes Romero's zombies particularly creepy is the whole apocalyptic nature of the zombie outbreaks, not necessarily the zombies themselves (to me anyway). It's like suddenly, everyone finds themselves living in a world infested with armies of mindless zombies. They're not particularly threatening individually, but surviving in a world where society has crumbled, cities have literally become overrun with them, and just surviving becomes paramount could be pretty crazy. Not to mention the fact that you could always become one yourself.

That being said, my absolute all time favorite zombies are still the ones from "Return of the Living Dead" though. Suddenly you can't just shoot them in the head anymore. Even disembodied pieces of them will come after you. It was as comedic as it was scary, but I thought that was a great movie. I loved the explanation they gave for why they wanted to eat brains too.

There is literally no other explanation for how/why this is occurring. Basically God A WIZARD did it

I have no clue as to how anyone would go about trying to explain it. The Romero films hinted at extraterrestrial microbes... there's always the old "viral outbreak" explanation... who knows. I can't imagine "The Walking Dead" explaining it by having some uber wizard doing it though. That would smack of lazy writing, if you ask me. lol

Or not. But going 'why don't zombie bodies decay' is a bit silly when zombie bodies are already basically dead bodies that aren't behaving like dead bodies behave, so by that fact alone the standards and assumptions should be reevaluated and nothing should be taken for granted. Another one is the fallacy that 'well the survivors just need to outlast the zombies who will eventually die of starvation' you see a lot of as criticism against zombies. How does anyone know whether or not zombies will starve to death? Technically they're already dead. They might go into 'hibernation' mode or whatever, like that one in the tank, and we know zombies will eat anything if they're hungry enough, like the horse.

Maybe they're all embalmed. That would explain their slow rate of decay. Hey, maybe that Wizard who's doing it is also a mortician...

You're right, we don't even know for sure why zombies eat the living in the first place. You'd think it would simply be because they're hungry, but maybe not. The "Return of the Living Dead" zombies weren't eating brains out of a need to feed. When asked why they want brains, the zombie said it helped alleviate the pain of rotting (not sure how that works, but I like it better than "magic did it" lol). Or maybe it's more like a compulsion; they're not eating the living for nourishment but rather they've mentally regressed into a more infantile-like state. OK, that's kind of dumb, but you see what I mean.

[Gunhead]

This is a total meh-. Zombies are lame in more interesting scenarios, and this one would have to set me up with a willing hot chick and give me loads of money before it comes even close to interesting. So far the only thing going for this series are good special effects. I'm willing to bet real fake money they've gone through all possible zombie apocalypse hoops before first season is done.
I even tried the comic. Which is just as uninteresting and maybe if I was willing to wade through it, there might be an original idea there somewhere, I doubt it though.

-Gunhead

[Superman]

This is a total meh-. Zombies are lame in more interesting scenarios, and this one would have to set me up with a willing hot chick and give me loads of money before it comes even close to interesting. So far the only thing going for this series are good special effects. I'm willing to bet real fake money they've gone through all possible zombie apocalypse hoops before first season is done.
I even tried the comic. Which is just as uninteresting and maybe if I was willing to wade through it, there might be an original idea there somewhere, I doubt it though.

-Gunhead

What kind of scenarios do you prefer for your zombies? Any favorite zombie movie or game? Are you a fan of zombies as a horror genre or do you like them in stuff like sci fi games?

And just out of curiosity, have you ever considered signing your posts with someone else's name? Just to kind of mix things up and to mess with people? That would be awesome.

[FSTargetDrone]

There is literally no other explanation for how/why this is occurring. Basically God A WIZARD did it

And this is what may cause me to lose interest in the show. I don't have a problem with supernaturally-animated undead. I have a problem with such beings in a universe like the one in the show.

Or not. But going 'why don't zombie bodies decay' is a bit silly when zombie bodies are already basically dead bodies that aren't behaving like dead bodies behave, so by that fact alone the standards and assumptions should be reevaluated and nothing should be taken for granted. Another one is the fallacy that 'well the survivors just need to outlast the zombies who will eventually die of starvation' you see a lot of as criticism against zombies. How does anyone know whether or not zombies will starve to death? Technically they're already dead. They might go into 'hibernation' mode or whatever, like that one in the tank, and we know zombies will eat anything if they're hungry enough, like the horse.

There were also a few zombies sitting idly in a bus that Grimes passed on his way into the city. They only got up out of the seats when he moved down the street.

Anyway, I'm going to stick with the show for awhile, but what seems like something that can only be a magical aspect is going to leave a bad taste in my mouth. I don't mind undead in movies like POTC and LOTR. It just seems out of place here.

[Superman]

And this is what may cause me to lose interest in the show. I don't have a problem with supernaturally-animated undead. I have a problem with such beings in a universe like the one in the show.

Wait, you could lose interest because there could be some magic wizard guy somewhere causing it, or because there isn't one?

[Stofsk]

There is literally no other explanation for how/why this is occurring. Basically God A WIZARD did it

And this is what may cause me to lose interest in the show. I don't have a problem with supernaturally-animated undead. I have a problem with such beings in a universe like the one in the show.

I was being facetious.

Honestly, I'd prefer there be no explanation - that's actually pretty frightening. Or the explanation is difficult/impossible to discern.

Anyway, I'm going to stick with the show for awhile, but what seems like something that can only be a magical aspect is going to leave a bad taste in my mouth. I don't mind undead in movies like POTC and LOTR. It just seems out of place here.

I don't know about that, I mean the juxtaposition between an ordinary world that goes upside down is pretty intriguing. The show kinda says 'imagine our world if the dead suddenly become zombies'. I don't know what your concern is really. I mean, a lot of shows have mixed 'realism' with absurd or supernatural circumstances, they either sink or swim based on the quality of the writing. Though I agree, that they need to be on the ball to keep me watching, I'm tentatively liking what I see so far.

[Gunhead]

This is a total meh-. Zombies are lame in more interesting scenarios, and this one would have to set me up with a willing hot chick and give me loads of money before it comes even close to interesting. So far the only thing going for this series are good special effects. I'm willing to bet real fake money they've gone through all possible zombie apocalypse hoops before first season is done.
I even tried the comic. Which is just as uninteresting and maybe if I was willing to wade through it, there might be an original idea there somewhere, I doubt it though.

-Gunhead

What kind of scenarios do you prefer for your zombies? Any favorite zombie movie or game? Are you a fan of zombies as a horror genre or do you like them in stuff like sci fi games?

And just out of curiosity, have you ever considered signing your posts with someone else's name? Just to kind of mix things up and to mess with people? That would be awesome.

I don't think there is a scenario where I'd prefer zombies. Zombies need too much explaining or divine intervention to work and for all points and purposes are not at all interesting as antagonists. I did like left 4 dead zombies, but only because I can kill a fuckton of them with an AK or automatic shotgun and cackle like a maniac while doing so. There's also some quirky humor there that's always a plus.
Zombie apocalypse is boring because it's no different from any other major disaster. Be it nukes, flood, meteors, volcanoes, locusts etc. it still tells a story about a survivor / group / groups. Now doing a post apocalyptic story is all well and good, I like post apocalyptic stuff as much as the next guy. I just think zombies should be more than just the convenient bad guy / metaphor for something else.

No I haven't considered signing my posts with someone else's name. Maybe I will someday. You never know.

-Gunhead

[Superman]

I don't think there is a scenario where I'd prefer zombies. Zombies need too much explaining or divine intervention to work and for all points and purposes are not at all interesting as antagonists.

I couldn't disagree more. The beauty of zombies is that they don't need any kind of explanation. The best zombie flicks have always left those details wide open, or they've provided relatively simple explanations like say, a toxic gas spill. We don't need some kind of tech manual for a zombie story, it's just gory fun horror.

[Gunhead]

I don't think there is a scenario where I'd prefer zombies. Zombies need too much explaining or divine intervention to work and for all points and purposes are not at all interesting as antagonists.

I couldn't disagree more. The beauty of zombies is that they don't need any kind of explanation. The best zombie flicks have always left those details wide open, or they've provided relatively simple explanations like say, a toxic gas spill. We don't need some kind of tech manual for a zombie story, it's just gory fun horror.

That's not what I really meant.... let's see... It's more like: Why go with zombies if you're not going to explain it. There are huge amounts of critters that could be used if no explanation is required. I think monsters in any setting should fulfill a purpose and not be easily replaced. Zombies by large do not have a goal or something similar. They just are. They lack purpose is what I'm trying to get at, I think. It's really hard to put a conceptual idea to words.

-Gunhead

[FSTargetDrone]

Wait, you could lose interest because there could be some magic wizard guy somewhere causing it,

Yes. Such magic doesn't belong in the world we've seen. But I really don't think that is what is going on here.

I can accept a non-explanation, but my real problem is that if the show portrays events that last many months or years and there are still these oddly semi-dead yet non-decaying beings shuffling around. A movie might not be so problematic because we only get 2 hours or so (at the most) of a story. It's just that it's going to start to break the suspension of disbelief for me if it goes on for too long. I like a show or movie to have a self-consistent universe, no matter how outlandish. I don't see how that can work if the time portrayed in the story lasts beyond many months and the "dead" are still active in great number and continue to behave as they do.

[Rye]

I don't think there is a scenario where I'd prefer zombies. Zombies need too much explaining or divine intervention to work and for all points and purposes are not at all interesting as antagonists.

I couldn't disagree more. The beauty of zombies is that they don't need any kind of explanation. The best zombie flicks have always left those details wide open, or they've provided relatively simple explanations like say, a toxic gas spill. We don't need some kind of tech manual for a zombie story, it's just gory fun horror.

That's not what I really meant.... let's see... It's more like: Why go with zombies if you're not going to explain it. There are huge amounts of critters that could be used if no explanation is required. I think monsters in any setting should fulfill a purpose and not be easily replaced. Zombies by large do not have a goal or something similar. They just are. They lack purpose is what I'm trying to get at, I think. It's really hard to put a conceptual idea to words.

-Gunhead

Zombies represent the fear we have for other people and the base animal rage/carnivorous barbarism in all of us. That's why you use them, because they're a terrifying corruption of the human form that society (in the form of groups of survivors) tries to deal with. Their function is primarily aesthetic; the chaos that eats society could be the guy down the street, driven mad and hungry.

They do not "lack purpose" at all. They are a mixture of gory fun punching bags and our neuroses about society, disease and our own death and reduction to mindless carnivores. Also, they are a very old threat:

"I will knock down the Gates of the Netherworld,
I will smash the door posts, and leave the doors flat down,
and will let the dead go up to eat the living!
And the dead will outnumber the living!"

[Gunhead]

Zombies represent the fear we have for other people and the base animal rage/carnivorous barbarism in all of us. That's why you use them, because they're a terrifying corruption of the human form that society (in the form of groups of survivors) tries to deal with. Their function is primarily aesthetic; the chaos that eats society could be the guy down the street, driven mad and hungry.

They do not "lack purpose" at all. They are a mixture of gory fun punching bags and our neuroses about society, disease and our own death and reduction to mindless carnivores. Also, they are a very old threat:

"I will knock down the Gates of the Netherworld,
I will smash the door posts, and leave the doors flat down,
and will let the dead go up to eat the living!
And the dead will outnumber the living!"

If they do that for you then fine. To me they represent writer's inability to produce good interesting things for our heroes to shoot and runaway from. Jokes aside, if some deep metaphorical issues are slapped on to the zombie threat, they should come from the story being told, not from some preconceived notion what zombies are. It is totally irrelevant what the message is. If you want the zombie threat be a stand in for the workers plight in USSR, then show it.
The big question is always why. Zombies eating people and running after them does not make them interesting. Having insight into why they do it is what does. Assuming the reason well thought out no matter how implausible.
Then there's this. I for one don't give a flying fuck about deep social commentary or similar shit when watching a monster movie, specially if the story cannot even portray it in a fashion that brings something new to the table. This is where zombies usually fail. They been around for ages and so far all that has been done with them is just minor tweaks here and there. They're usually not that important to the story, same or similar story could be told with a much more interesting monster / monsters running loose unless the whole story relies on the viewer having a preconception about what zombies are and do, which just means the story will probably suck ass. Or it's just a rehash of something that's already been done.

Most of this is true for any kind of monster story. At least to me. A monster movie has to have a good monster in it that brings something to the story and the story really needs this monster to work properly and keep me interested and entertained.

-Gunhead

[Chardok]

The problem with "Remove zombies and insert monster X" is that when there are monsters who are not humans involved, then you still have 6 billion humans to deal with. With a zombie outbreak, you usually end up with a reduction in human population such that survival is necessary for the continued survival of the species, and there would be just as much "Explanation" for monster X as with zombies. (Where did the monsters come from? Are they aliens? Why do they want to take over/kill all of us, etc. etc. etc.) So IMHO - Zombies are as good as anything and, let's be honest - this show is starting out slow simply because it must. I'm sure there's going to be some good, smart storytelling later on, but they'got to get the character introductions, personalities, and motive outlines out of the way first.

[Gunhead]

The problem with "Remove zombies and insert monster X" is that when there are monsters who are not humans involved, then you still have 6 billion humans to deal with. With a zombie outbreak, you usually end up with a reduction in human population such that survival is necessary for the continued survival of the species, and there would be just as much "Explanation" for monster X as with zombies. (Where did the monsters come from? Are they aliens? Why do they want to take over/kill all of us, etc. etc. etc.) So IMHO - Zombies are as good as anything and, let's be honest - this show is starting out slow simply because it must. I'm sure there's going to be some good, smart storytelling later on, but they'got to get the character introductions, personalities, and motive outlines out of the way first.

I'd say that comes from the fact that zombie apocalypse scenarios are by now so well established in popular culture that everybody already knows how it must have come about. Other forms of alien invasion / mutated monsters etc. need to be explained to the people watching as they can a highly varied bunch. But those can reduce human population just as easily as any zombie outbreak, specially when the story starts from a point where the apocalypse has already happened.
In all fairness it's of course obvious how thin the line between a true zombie and some mind slave created by a mutated super virus from outer space really is.
But if I said zombie apocalypse to anyone who hasn't been living under a rock, I'm pretty sure I'd get something in the lines of undead people bites turning people into undead with a liberal seasoning of running, not running, head shot and super disease.

I find your optimism heart warming , but I'm a total pessimist when it comes to tv-shows and movies. I may give this one more chance to impress but that's it.

-Gunhead

[Zixinus]

Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster that they didn't play out "you cheated on my wife" line.

And yeah, I'm not exactly sympathetic to the wife-beater, no matter how badly he was beaten up. He does worse to his own wife.

Foolish Dixon. Though, I wonder whether he really had a choice.