Reprehensible Movies

[Darth Wong]

If you can get yourself killed driving a car that sounds like a lawnmower and is about as powerful, you've earned it. Let's not blame movies for that, or are we going to start listing video games that have caused children to ruthlessly murder their peers for some gold coins and smash every piece of pottery they see for some rupees?

Is there some particular reason why you believe that responsibility must always be apportioned out to a single individual, with no possibility of spreading it around?

[Darth Wong]

I'm not going to bother bringing up the LOTR tangent again; the movie's relentless fan-whores will argue for it till they're blue in the face, and I've frankly had more than my fill in life of goddamned smug white people telling me I'm over-sensitive about race. However, on a slightly related racial issue:

Another movie I'd like to nominate as reprehensible is Norbit. Not only was it unfunny, but I've never liked the "fat sassy black woman" stereotype it promotes. I was also bothered by Norbit's "good" love interest being biracial in appearance, because I am really fucking sick of every "black" female love interest in the movies being light-skinned.

That is unfortunately spread throughout the entire culture. Somewhere along the line people got the idea that racial stereotypes are OK and not racist at all, as long as you do it to every race, not just one. This is how we got the spectacle of black comedians whose repertoire is mostly based on race comedy. It's also to blame for abominations like Mind of Mencia.

As for light-skinned black women, Hollywood likes women to have thin noses, which seem to be inherited from mixed-breed stock. Wide-nosed black women are hard to find in movies, and they are generally not portrayed as glamourous when you see them.

[PeZook]

Actually, this has been bothering me for some time: I've noticed that a lot of Holywood movies self-segregate. That is, you rarely see any mixed couples in them: Asian characters usually date Asians, black characters go out with other black people, etc.

There's plenty of sitcoms, for example, which are obviously targetted to a black audience, and have all characters black, including such things as office workers, random passersby and school friends of the kid.

What's up with that? I can't even recall a movie offhand when we could see an interracial couple.

[Darth Yan]

I thought Mencia just shamelessly stole other people's jokes.

[Vastatosaurus Rex]

That is unfortunately spread throughout the entire culture. Somewhere along the line people got the idea that racial stereotypes are OK and not racist at all, as long as you do it to every race, not just one.

The problem is that many Americans are not aware that there are real socioeconomic power differences between the various races in the US as a result of our history of institutionalized white supremacy. The comedian who negatively stereotypes both white and black people may think he's being fair and balanced, but he doesn't realize that the first group is relatively privileged and therefore doesn't have much to lose from being negatively stereotyped, while the second group is still recovering from a period where it was treated like shit and is therefore more vulnerable to the damage caused by the stereotyping.

Of course, negatively stereotyping any race is wrong, but some races suffer from it more than others.

What's up with that? I can't even recall a movie offhand when we could see an interracial couple.

To be fair, it's gotten better, thanks to movies like Lakeview Terrace and Princess and the Frog.

[Darth Wong]

I thought Mencia just shamelessly stole other people's jokes.

He did, but so much of his so-called "comedy" was nothing more than saying "Hey, here's a racial stereotype! Laugh at it!"

[Edi]

As for light-skinned black women, Hollywood likes women to have thin noses, which seem to be inherited from mixed-breed stock. Wide-nosed black women are hard to find in movies, and they are generally not portrayed as glamourous when you see them.

This is also to a large extent the product of history. Most black Americans are the descendants of West African slaves and consequently have similar physical features, including broader noses. East Africans have markedly different physical features and they often have rather thin noses, closer to the Western pop culture ideal.

It is not at all uncommon to see absolutely drop-dead gorgeous East African women (who often have much darker skin than a lot of black Americans). You just don't see them in American media a whole lot due to the origin of black Americans in West Africa.

Since ideas of beauty are culturally ingrained and white people have thinner noses, that's been the "standard" and it won't shift in a hurry given the way things are. I don't give a damn about skin color, but it's the other physical features that tend to garner more of my attention at least.

[Setzer]

I thought Mencia just shamelessly stole other people's jokes.

He did, but so much of his so-called "comedy" was nothing more than saying "Hey, here's a racial stereotype! Laugh at it!"

I don't think I've ever heard Carlos Mencia say the words "Home Depot" without mentioning Mexicans hanging out there. I wonder if he's being sponsored by them.

[Bakustra]

What's up with that? I can't even recall a movie offhand when we could see an interracial couple.

To be fair, it's gotten better, thanks to movies like Lakeview Terrace and Princess and the Frog.

What race do you think Naveen is, exactly?

[Jim Raynor]

Actually, this has been bothering me for some time: I've noticed that a lot of Holywood movies self-segregate. That is, you rarely see any mixed couples in them: Asian characters usually date Asians

Asian guys get to date in Hollywood movies? If an Asian character is portrayed as sexy, chances are the character is an "exotic" female for the white hero. Asian males are either pussy nerds or loser clowns. If he's not a pussy, he's a sexless Martial Artist who can kick ass but won't get to kiss the girl, even if he's supposed to kiss the girl (e.g. Romeo Must Die).

This reminded me of another reprehensible movie that I saw a little while ago, but a lot of you probably didn't because it deservedly flopped: Because I Said So. It's a lousy romantic comedy about a young woman being pressured to find a man by her overbearing mother. The movie got on my bad side early on when the main characters were at a spa getting massaged by some old Asian women. Only it hurts because HAHA Asians or so silly and weird and don't know English.

Then came one of the most racist scenes I've seen in a recent mainstream movie. The main character goes on a series of blind dates set up by her mother, and they're all losers and weirdos. And get this - they're Arab and Indian weirdos. We're treated to montage of the pretty white girl being weirded out by a couple of freaky brown-skinned suitors, until at last, she's rescued by a white-skinned nice guy who just happens to stroll into the restaurant.

And besides the racist elements, the movie was just plain shit. The main character sleeps around with two separate guys and acts like a slut for most of the movie. One of them is the aforementioned nice guy, and the other is some arrogant jackass that her mother sets her up (which undercuts the whole story about her mother forcing her to date lousy men against her wishes). Until the nice guy finds out and dumps her, at which point we're supposed to sympathize with her and cheer as she tries to win him back.

[spaceviking]

I thought Mencia just shamelessly stole other people's jokes.

He did, but so much of his so-called "comedy" was nothing more than saying "Hey, here's a racial stereotype! Laugh at it!"

People always credit him with showmanship but I dont see it, Ive seen him steal hilarious Cosby routines and just suck out the funny

[CaptainChewbacca]

Asian guys get to date in Hollywood movies? If an Asian character is portrayed as sexy, chances are the character is an "exotic" female for the white hero. Asian males are either pussy nerds or loser clowns. If he's not a pussy, he's a sexless Martial Artist who can kick ass but won't get to kiss the girl, even if he's supposed to kiss the girl (e.g. Romeo Must Die).

In Harold & Kumar, isn't the girl of Harold's (an asian guy) dreams either black or hispanic?

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Asian guys get to date in Hollywood movies? If an Asian character is portrayed as sexy, chances are the character is an "exotic" female for the white hero. Asian males are either pussy nerds or loser clowns. If he's not a pussy, he's a sexless Martial Artist who can kick ass but won't get to kiss the girl, even if he's supposed to kiss the girl (e.g. Romeo Must Die).

In Harold & Kumar, isn't the girl of Harold's (an asian guy) dreams either black or hispanic?

Maria is definitely Hispanic, and if I remember things correctly, at the end of White Castle Harold does get to kiss her.

Seriously, that whole "Asian guys as either pussy nerds or asexual martial artists" trope just needs to die a very painful death.

[Mystikal]

I believe Herodotus mentions that after Platea, a 7' tall skeleton with a fused mandible and bones was found amongst the Persian dead. In the context of the Hellenic world, that is unbelievable.

He does.

Moreover, there appeared also this still later that that: The corpses bared of their fleshes all round, since the Plataeans were bringing together the bones into one place, there was found a head that had no suture but was made of one bone, and there appeared also a jaw and the upper part of the jaw that had teeth grown as one piece, all made out of one bone, the teeth and molars, and bones of a man of five cubits appeared.

In the movie or in real-life? If the latter, woah...that's cool.

Transformers and it's sequel. It seems to glorify weak, incompetent and pathetic white stereotypes, unless you remember that Shia is Jewish, then it can get even wierder.

I'm getting sick of the stereotypes of whiteboys being presented as weak and pathetic and shit. It gets old after a while.


Hoever, there is a steretype portayed by a particcular actor that I love. Chris Tucker bakc in the days of Friday and tha tmovie he did with Charlie Sheen.

That shit was awesome.

However, the pimp in Resident Evil2...living...was an abomination. If he had been played by Chris Tucker when he was still skinny...


Is it wrong to like a steretotype as long as its played by a particular actor yet find the same thing reprehensible and intolerable?

[Vastatosaurus Rex]

The Africans known to ride into battle upon elephants were Phoenicians who migrated from the mideast. Not Black.

I'm calling bullshit on this one. There is some evidence of black Africans serving in the Carthaginian army:

[quote="E.W. Bolli in "The golden trade of the Moors: West African kingdoms in the Fourteenth Century", pp. 21-22"]To what extent Carthaginians employed Negro slaves is doubtful. Punic cemeteries have yielded numerous skulls of a negroid character, and there were some very dark-skinned Africans, perhaps negroes, in the Carthaginian army which invaded Sicily early in the fifth century B.C. Frontinus tells us that as prisoners they were paraded naked before the Greeks soldiery in order to bring the Carthaginians into contempt. On the other hand, as the Carthaginians customarily enslaved prisoners of war and the victims of their piracy, two sources of supply which they must have found very fruitful, they were far from being dependent on Africa for slave labour. It is unlikely that they hesitated to enslave as many Berbers as they required, nor were so brutal a people likely to have drawn the line at doing the same to their own peasantry. The evidence of negro blood, is, however, significant and it seems probable that they imported slaves from the Fezzan. It was a likely source, for the Garamantes cannot have hunted the Troglodyte Ethiopians except to enslave them. The slave trade with the Fezzan may have been important to the Carthaginians, but there are no grounds for assuming that it was.[/quote]

[quote="G. Mokhtar in "General History of Africa: Ancient civilizations of Africa""]In the Punic burial grounds, negroid remains were not rare and there were black auxiliaries in the Carthaginian army who were certainly not Nilotics. Furthermore, if we are to believe Diodorus(XX, 57.5), a lieutenant of Agathocles in northern Tuninisa at the close of the fourth century before our era overcame a people who skin was similar to the Ethiopian. There is much evidence of the presence of 'Ethiopians' on the southern borders of Africa Minor. Throughout the classical period, mention is also made of peoples belonging to intermediate races, the Melano-Getules, or Leuco-Ethiopians in particular in Ptolemy.[/quote]

[Gil Hamilton]

In Harold & Kumar, isn't the girl of Harold's (an asian guy) dreams either black or hispanic?

Good point on this one. Harold and Kumar was the deliberate destruction of the notions about racial stereotypes. Harold stands up to the white assholes who dump work on him because he's Asian, he kisses the girl (who's hispanic), and he likes cheeseburgers.

[FSTargetDrone]

Transformers and it's sequel. It seems to glorify weak, incompetent and pathetic white stereotypes, unless you remember that Shia is Jewish, then it can get even wierder.

Don't confuse the actor with the character. There is nothing to suggest that the character is Jewish (or any other particular ethnicity/religion) other than that he is clearly white. It's never part of the plot, though.

I never got the vibe that the white humans were supposed to be any weaker than any other humans. None of them (the main characters) are cowardly. They are all weaker than the Transformers, but that is sort of the point. They need the help of the Autobots to defeat the Decepticons, but they otherwise come across as fairly competent and even somewhat effective.

[Mystikal]

Fucking Commando. That film disgusts me. Killing all those guys just to save the girl? Disgusting. I feel like puking every time I see that movie. He should have let the professionals negotiate a peaceful resolution, not walk around with his M60, hosing down every poor bastard who happened to be there at the time.

The fuck?

It's a action movie...the whole point is dakka and explosions. Commando just takes ou tthe drama bullshit and increases the dakka quotient. And if you didn;t notice, the belt to the M-60 gets longer and longer with each cut of him firing it. It must be excess manliness materializing into ammo or something... How can you hate this movie? It's awesome.

???

Oh and non-violence solves everything?


PS, I'm commenting as I read the thread.
Oh and I never said there never were Blacks in the Carthiginian army but the People of Carthage were of Phoenician decent. I'll get to it later, haven;t read the thread yet.

[Thanas]

PS, I'm commenting as I read the thread.

Then please read the thread in full and comment then. No reason to make a new post every time you finish a thought.

[Mystikal]

Transformers and it's sequel. It seems to glorify weak, incompetent and pathetic white stereotypes, unless you remember that Shia is Jewish, then it can get even wierder.

Don't confuse the actor with the character. There is nothing to suggest that the character is Jewish (or any other particular ethnicity/religion) other than that he is clearly white. It's never part of the plot, though.

I never got the vibe that the white humans were supposed to be any weaker than any other humans. None of them (the main characters) are cowardly. They are all weaker than the Transformers, but that is sort of the point. They need the help of the Autobots to defeat the Decepticons, but they otherwise come across as fairly competent and even somewhat effective.

I'm addressing this first.

Um..... I said you could interpret the character as Jewish if you wanted to.... the part where it gets wierder in the second one is the drawn out scene where he is apparently the chosen one and other bullshit. That part alone was another thing about the movie I couldn't stand. It had nothing to do with Shia, its just that it focused too much on it.

On your second paragraph, you completely misunderstood me. I was stating a hate for white guys/boys to be weaker/incompetent than they need to be. I hate that they are basicaly doing a polar opposite of Mighty Whitey. It has gotten old. Sometimes its funny but comeone, enough with the incompetent and weak male character already. It's old now.

At Thanas, one I just got alerted to a new post. Cool feature.

Also, the thing about addressing Wong's comment on racism was more that it got annoying.

At first it was like

"Ok, you have a issue with racism, that's cool"

then

"Umm, I get it, racism bad"

but eventually

"...this is getting a bit ridiciulous"

That's what was with the response to that. I'm not in trouble am I?

[FSTargetDrone]

I'm addressing this first.

Um..... I said you could interpret the character as Jewish if you wanted to.... the part where it gets wierder in the second one is the drawn out scene where he is apparently the chosen one and other bullshit. That part alone was another thing about the movie I couldn't stand. It had nothing to do with Shia, its just that it focused too much on it.

Then why did you mention the actor's name? Anyway, you could interpret the character as Jewish, but it's a stretch and it is irrelevant either way (as is religion/ethnicity) in the events of the film.

[RogueIce]

On your second paragraph, you completely misunderstood me. I was stating a hate for white guys/boys to be weaker/incompetent than they need to be. I hate that they are basicaly doing a polar opposite of Mighty Whitey. It has gotten old. Sometimes its funny but comeone, enough with the incompetent and weak male character already. It's old now.

He's a high school kid thrust into the middle of an ages old war against super advanced giant transforming robots. The fact he seems to be just a little out of his element is not surprising. He does get some balls later in the movie. The second movie doesn't make him all that bad, either. Again, he never wanted a part of this war, so is it surprising he resisted being dragged back in? Once he realized he didn't have much of a choice, he went and did what he needed to do.

And you do know Captain (later Major) Lennox is white, correct? I don't think you could call him weak or incompetent.

As far as Sam being kinda nerdy and a loser at the beginning...I don't think his being white had any effect on that. As said before, his race has nothing to do with that. The actor just happens to be a white dude.

[Mystikal]

On your second paragraph, you completely misunderstood me. I was stating a hate for white guys/boys to be weaker/incompetent than they need to be. I hate that they are basicaly doing a polar opposite of Mighty Whitey. It has gotten old. Sometimes its funny but comeone, enough with the incompetent and weak male character already. It's old now.

He's a high school kid thrust into the middle of an ages old war against super advanced giant transforming robots. The fact he seems to be just a little out of his element is not surprising. He does get some balls later in the movie. The second movie doesn't make him all that bad, either. Again, he never wanted a part of this war, so is it surprising he resisted being dragged back in? Once he realized he didn't have much of a choice, he went and did what he needed to do.

And you do know Captain (later Major) Lennox is white, correct? I don't think you could call him weak or incompetent.

As far as Sam being kinda nerdy and a loser at the beginning...I don't think his being white had any effect on that. As said before, his race has nothing to do with that. The actor just happens to be a white dude.

But that's what's getting old, the nerdy loser being in the forefront of the story. IT's not like most High School kids would be so wimpy or relutctant to, you know, have a frontrow seat to giant robots smashing each other. Again, its the stereotype itself that bothers me, but you are completely ignoring that aren't you? You are completely ignoring that there might even be a negative stereotype aren't you?

[PeZook]

But that's what's getting old, the nerdy loser being in the forefront of the story. IT's not like most High School kids would be so wimpy or relutctant to, you know, have a frontrow seat to giant robots smashing each other. Again, its the stereotype itself that bothers me, but you are completely ignoring that aren't you? You are completely ignoring that there might even be a negative stereotype aren't you?

Yes, I'm sure a high school kid would just love to risk serious injury and/or death in exchange for a possible "front-row seat" (i.e. one that's being shot at) at a war where giant robots try to fucking kill him with weapons he can't defend himself from.

I know I'd run, and keep running as long as I could - and I'm hardly a high-school kid. Hell, most soldiers would prefer not to fight them if they could avoid it, and a not-insignificant number of those combat-trained professionals would probably break down when they did - God knows a lot of them do in much more mundane situations, and that's completely understandable, because, here's the thing: war is terrifying.

Seriously, what drugs are you on to think most high-school kids would enjoy wandering into a war zone? Do you like being shot at?

As for the stereotype, you haven't defined any. What you're complaining about is a story archetype (nerdy, shy kid is thrust into events larger than himself, finds courage and skills to face them, ends up being instrumental to victory and gets the girl), not a negative stereotype of any kind. In fact, the archetype almost inevitably shows the nerd to have skills and/or character qualities that end up being essential to saving the world. How is that a hurtful stereotype?

[Zixinus]

How about we get this thread back on track and discuss Tolkien's potential racism elsewhere?

One movie I could mention is a Christmas movie: while most such movies center around jaded men having their heart grow three sizes, the rediscovery of the value of family and friends, this one particular movie centered around one thing: you have to believe.

I can't recall the title, but I specifically recall that it was an 3D animated film and it heavily involved trains: with kids going on a train ride (I think there was a scene where there were other kids and hot cocoa). There were a lot of whacy train rides with some rather weirdly laid out tracks and one awesome freefall scene where the train was moving so fast that there were a few moments of freefall.

What was reprehensible about it, that it told to mindlessly believe with the protagonist being a kid who has grown skeptical of Santa Claus. Now, the thing is that rather than allow the kid to understand that Santa Clous does not physically exist and rather its just an excuse to spend time with your family, you must believe or ELSE!

The movie shows that you must believe in Christmas. I recall specifically a scene where Santa Clous himself asks angrily "You DO believe in Christmas DO YOU?" with the kid backing up in fear.