Sherlock Holmes Movie

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Faqa
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Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Faqa »

What, no review thread? People are that indifferent to it? :(

I'll start, then, since I saw it yesterday and rather enjoyed it.

First off, since everyone who saw the trailer seemed to worry about this - no, it's not a typical dumb Hollywood Action Movie. The writers have clearly read the novels.

Good:

+ Downey Jr. NAILS Holmes very effectively, from condescending arrogance to intellectual fascination. He's also pretty hilarious while doing so.
+ Quotations galore! Several times, Holmes quotes from the novels, and no, none of the quotes contains the word "Elementary". Just about the only thing missing was him breaking out into foreign quotations.
+ The plot, without spoiling too much, is classic Holmes, with action twists thrown in. For example, he narrates his final "figured it out" monologue in the midst of an action scene.
+ Hand it to Guy Ritchie, he knows how to film action scenes. There's none of the "sudden cuts" nonsense a lot of movies like to do - the fisticuffs are displayed well. I especially like the detail whereby Holmes narrates his violence to himself before doing it.
+ Yes, we get several monologues where Holmes does his "look at a person and explain their life story" thang.

Cons:

- Jude Law is entirely too snarky to be a proper Watson. Although this may tie into...
- You know how the show House MD had it's title character greatly influenced by Sherlock Holmes? Yeah, somehow, in an ironic twist of fate, this got turned around. Holmes here is arguably greatly influenced by Gregory House, mostly in the part of his being a complete dick and social retard, neither of which are especially in keeping with the original character, who was merely eccentric. Also, the whole slashfic-Buddy dynamic with Watson is cranked up to 11, which is vaguely irritating.
- Spoiler
Irene Adler
makes an appearance. Suffice to say that this is the closest the movie comes to being Hollywood Action Trash.
- Length clocks in at 2 hours, which is about half an hour too long. Drag, drag, drag.
- Several times, Holmes makes impulsive moves not at all in keeping with the character.


Overall, I'll definitely be buying the DVD. The writers of the script were clearly fans of the novels, even if they chose to put some twists on them.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by General Zod »

I'm probably going to go see this one sometime this week. Most likely won't be until next Friday though.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Zixinus »

If I don't give two shits about the originality. How truly deductive is Holmes and how watchable is the film by itself?
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Faqa »

Oh, if you don't give a shit about the source material, it's a pretty good Victorian action romp on it's own merits. And Holmes gets to shine in terms of deductiveness, yes.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Zwinmar »

Was an ok popcorn flick, too much deus ex machina I thought, though.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Oskuro »

Haven't seen it yet, but probably will once it opens around here.

Here is Movie Bob's review. Apparently it has minor spoilers (I didn't notice any, but then again, you're warned).
The guy is a Sherlock Holmes fan (sherlockian, apparently), so I find his analysis interesting.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by LadyTevar »

The Baker Street Irregulars were interviewed by CNN, and they have spoken on the movie.
... (T)he consensus among these experts was that the film is a fun -- and even occasionally faithful -- romp through Sherlock lore that the author himself would have enjoyed.
What truly seems to get the Irregulars is the portrayal of Watson:
"I liked it a lot more than I thought I would," said Andrew Peck, a United States magistrate judge. "What I particularly liked was the Holmes-Watson relationship. The movie really showed Watson as a trusted companion to Holmes, coming to Holmes' aid in times of need. The Watson of the books is a military man who played rugby and sports in college. He is tough. He is observant on his own and Holmes wants him around, not as a bumbling fool but as a trusted aide."

Watson has historically been portrayed in films as a bumbling sidekick, most famously by British actor Nigel Bruce in a series of films from the 1940s. But director Ritchie's imagining of Watson is as the quick-footed, sharpshooting contemporary of Holmes, with a rapier-sharp wit that can match the detective in the tongue-lashing department.

"The movie did an excellent job in portraying the relationship between the two. The actors work well together, as did Holmes and Watson. The movie shows Watson as intelligent, able to be a good assistant; Watson, the doctor, concerned about his friend's well-being; and it shows his reasonable frustration with his friend's often thoughtless ways," said Julia Carlson Rosenblatt, a Baker Street Irregular since 1972 and co-author of "Dining With Sherlock Holmes."
As a fan of the Good Detective, I have to agree -- Watson was never a bumbler in the stories, nor was he unintelligent. He was a foil for Holmes, yes, but he was also Holmes' best, closest friend and the one most likely to follow Holmes' line of thought.
As intelligent nerds ourselves, we of SDnet know our best friends are those whom are equal in wits and intellect, who gets our jokes and understands our quirks. Bumblers and idiots who have to have things explained get only our derision (or pity).

Either way, I thought the movie would rock from the moment I saw Downey Jr. as Sherlock. I am not disappointed.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Stark »

I'm just glad he's not a fatass. He's a war vet who packs a nine; he's not some dithering middle-aged milksop. He's got a bad leg (or something) but that's it. The last 20-30 years of popular portrayals have not been kind to Watson.

However, saying Watson is anywhere near Holmes intellectually is totally absurd and Watson admits as much himself. Holmes is a cunt to Watson about Watson being inferior in this regard semi-constantly and is forced to admit he's a horrible prick about it more than once. Watson is a friend and he's trusted, but he is in no fucking way 'equal in wits and intellect'. He's just a normal guy whose friend is a socially retarded genius and puts up with his shit. Holmes doesn't need Watson to solve crimes; he needs Watson to give a shit about people and for companionship. I hate to say this, but Watson having things explained to him is extraordinarily common.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Oskuro »

Haven't seen the movie yet, but regarding the Holmes-Watson relationship, I have to agree that Watson really needed to be presented in a better light. I can't help but think of the House-Wilson relationship, and how Wilson is far from the bumbling idiot and more of the humane part that House is missing, just as Stark said about Watson.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Bakustra »

Stark wrote:I'm just glad he's not a fatass. He's a war vet who packs a nine; he's not some dithering middle-aged milksop. He's got a bad leg (or something) but that's it. The last 20-30 years of popular portrayals have not been kind to Watson.

However, saying Watson is anywhere near Holmes intellectually is totally absurd and Watson admits as much himself. Holmes is a cunt to Watson about Watson being inferior in this regard semi-constantly and is forced to admit he's a horrible prick about it more than once. Watson is a friend and he's trusted, but he is in no fucking way 'equal in wits and intellect'. He's just a normal guy whose friend is a socially retarded genius and puts up with his shit. Holmes doesn't need Watson to solve crimes; he needs Watson to give a shit about people and for companionship. I hate to say this, but Watson having things explained to him is extraordinarily common.
By the later stories, though, Watson needed less and less explained as he picked up on more of Holmes' methods. Look at A Study in Scarlet versus The Valley of Fear, though I do agree that Watson isn't Holmes' intellectual equal in any way. Nigel Bruce's "I say, is that a clue?!" portrayal of Watson is still far too over-the-top in the differential. Of course, any mere mortal, genius or not, will come up somewhat short when compared to Holmes' amazing powers of deduction/jumping to conclusions. Anyways, I'm hoping to see this shortly, so I'm glad to know that Ritchie did a excellent job in his envisioning.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by The Defenestrator »

LordOskuro wrote:Here is Movie Bob's review. Apparently it has minor spoilers (I didn't notice any, but then again, you're warned).
The guy is a Sherlock Holmes fan (sherlockian, apparently), so I find his analysis interesting.
What does the "VR" at the end of the review mean?
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Oskuro »

No clue, must be something hardcore sherlockians might get.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Mr. Sinister »

It's the royal cypher of Queen Victoria. VR=Victoria Regina
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Samuel »

That and he shot it in the wall in the movie (it occurs in one of the books as well).

Does anyone know where I could listen to the soundtrack? I loved the music.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Bug-Eyed Earl »

I thought it was a great movie, myself. I try not to place too much value on BO take, but it made over 65 million over the weekend, which makes me happy- sometimes it's as simple as wanting to see obvious care in filmmaking rewarded. On to the spoilers:
Spoiler
Well, if you know anything about Sherlock Holmes, it's pretty easy to guess that the the mystery string puller was indeed Moriarty, even before Holmes calls him a "professor." I was half expecting him to kill Irene before she could spill- a shot rings out, and Holmes looks up and sees Brad Pitt with chalk on the collar of his coat holding that sleeve holstered pistol (there was a rumor to that effect, and that they were wavering on whether to include a cameo from a Richie veteran as the revealed Moriarty at the last second.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Nephtys »

I thought the point of the Holmes-Watson working relationship was that Watson was properly intellectual, and used A + B = C, in a logical and probabilistic manner, while Holmes deduced things beyond the scope of normal reasonable explainations, which extrapolate huge twists out of tiny, inconsequential details?
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Stark »

Nephtys wrote:I thought the point of the Holmes-Watson working relationship was that Watson was properly intellectual, and used A + B = C, in a logical and probabilistic manner, while Holmes deduced things beyond the scope of normal reasonable explainations, which extrapolate huge twists out of tiny, inconsequential details?
In some stories Watson is indeed shown drawing reasonable conclusions; Holmes rags the shit out of him for sucking because he didn't reach the more dubious (but correct) conclusions Holmes did. Watson is a normal person and Holmes is a magical person who always knows what is required to draw the correct (but generally unlikely) conclusion.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Rogue 9 »

Just got back from seeing it. First thing's first. Spoiler
I called the mysterious guy being Moriarty pretty much immediately; he has no history with Irene Adler in the canon, but the way they set her up in her initial appearance, there's no other Holmesian villain who could be capable of holding her leash; if it were any canon character, it had to be him, for dramatic purposes if nothing else. That, and chalk on his lapel. :razz:
I loved it. Robert Downey and the script writers hit the character of Sherlock Holmes perfectly, right down to being a master of disguise. I'd see it again; in fact, I'm going to.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Adrian Laguna »

Stark wrote:Holmes doesn't need Watson to solve crimes; he needs Watson to give a shit about people and for companionship.
Watson is useful for solving various crimes, just not because of his deductive skills. There are multiple instances where having a trusted accomplice proved useful for Holmes in pulling shenanigans that were necessary to uncover evidence. Watson is also invaluable whenever Holmes thinks there might be physical danger, since Watson still has his service revolver and knows how to use it. Armed back-up is always a good thing to have on hand.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Stark »

Aside from the unnecessary Adler anachronism and the slow middle third, I liked it. Holmes literally being a retard was a brave thing to do, and making Watson the ignored better man was a sensitive interpretation. Sadly they needed tits for ratings or something, so now we know Watson is a tits man and Holmes is autistic. Lol!

Some of the dialogue was great and Doyle, but sone of it was horrible and forced. The final Adler/Holmes was awful; I guess 'being able to act' helped Law carry it off.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by neoolong »

Watson also helped find the factory I believe.

I would think that the differentiator between Holmes and Watson intellectually would be that Watson has a better grasp on figuring stuff out if there's medicine involved while Holmes would be more of the detective. But, I guess not so much.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

LordOskuro wrote:No clue, must be something hardcore sherlockians might get.

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which is something Holmes once pistol graphittied on the wall of his flat.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Darth Yan »

I almost hated this movie, but the clever explanation as to how blackwood pulled it all off saved it. I felt that holmes was a jackass at times, and that jude law was great in the role.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Darth Paxis »

I liked the sequences in the beginning where Holmes planned out how he would beat his opponent in his head, and then go do it, and the portrayals were good. I also thought that
Spoiler
Moriarty was a nice blend of Blofeld and Darth Sidious, the mastermind who manipulates his enemies into doing his work from behind the scenes, who also hides his face from everyone. It was almost like the whole blackwood plot was really insignificant when you looked at the bigger picture, which was a nice view of it.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Post by Rogue 9 »

Darth Paxis wrote:I liked the sequences in the beginning where Holmes planned out how he would beat his opponent in his head, and then go do it, and the portrayals were good. I also thought that
Spoiler
Moriarty was a nice blend of Blofeld and Darth Sidious, the mastermind who manipulates his enemies into doing his work from behind the scenes, who also hides his face from everyone. It was almost like the whole blackwood plot was really insignificant when you looked at the bigger picture, which was a nice view of it.
Spoiler
I wouldn't say the Blackwood plot was insignificant; after all, he came within a hair's breadth of killing the entire British government save his accomplices. Moriarty doing what he did was an excellent illustration of how he's supposed to operate (in The Final Problem, Holmes says that he's known for years that someone was manipulating much of London's criminal element behind the scenes, so that's exactly Moriarty's MO), but Lord Blackwood was by no means minor.
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