[Discussion] Internet Generations.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Back when I started using the internet, in 1996 - 1997, nobody was "themselves" on the internet. Everyone used pseudonyms and everyone to some extent adopted an internet persona, as best I can tell. Wayne Poe and I were both in our own ways part of that flamboyant generation of actors across usenet--the same with Mike, with Shep, with Hitman, etc. We built up fake legends about others and about ourselves and we half played a game in which we became our Imperial alteregos or whatnot. The same is true of many of the oldest of the old, the legends about Dalton and Steve and so on.

Now, the MySpace and Facebook generation is here, the people who use LinkedIn and so on, they use their real names, they try to behave on the internet in the same way that they do in real life. Is that part of what's going on here? The number of times I've been accused, for instance, of having mental problems is really staggering to me, and this morning I set back and thought, "you know, maybe people on the board don't realize it's a flamboyant act because in their generation of internet use nobody does that--but in mine, everyone did."

Now certainly Poe and Shep used it to their own advantages, but the meme that I'm crazy has been fairly well established here. And then the revelations that Mr. Coffee, Havokeff, etc, say they act the exact same way online that they do in person shocked me--I was still in the mode of assuming nobody did that on the internet. And now I pause and look around, and I see so many of the new people and it occurs to me that they grew up in an era in which internet and real life are seamlessly interconnected, rather than in the early and mid-90's where the internet was more of a strange pseudoworld in which people could, and were, anything that they wanted to be without any connection to their real lives.

So how much of the problems are caused by the fact that most of the newer people on the board are expecting us old timers to in fact be the way we act, when many of us were quite used to putting on a show back in the day?

[Coyote]

I've always pretty much acted as who I am, but mostly because I'm too lazy to cook up a good persona and stick with it.

Plus, after spending so many years among the furries, and seeing just how far down the road these 'personas' can go, I just... no. Can't go there. [shivers].

EDIT-- just out of curiosity, why keep this in the Senate? I'd be interested in hearing other opinions on this as well. Can we move it to OT, with your permission, Duchess?

[Hotfoot]

I've only ever been myself, and I first went online over 13 years ago in 1995. Don't get me wrong, it was a different world, and you had to be a little cagier, but the idea that everyone back then had a persona is going a little too far, I think. In ASVS, maybe things were like that. I know that when I was messing around with my gaming clans back in the day, we did some stupid stuff like telling stories, but it was separated from who were actually were.

I don't go by my proper name most of the time with good reason, but I don't go out of my way to hide it. Most people who give a damn about me know who I am and what I look like, and frankly it's been that way for me since high school.

If you don't treat the people on the other side of the screen like people, it's going to come back and bite you. Hard. This isn't a game, and it never really has been. If you really have been thinking that the net has been a case of superegos and ids coming to play and nothing but, you've been doing a massive disservice to everyone you've ever interacted with, as well as yourself.

Edit: Yeah, let's move this from the Senate, it's really got little reason to be here, as it's more a discussion of how people were introduced to the Net, not an actual Senate matter.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Well, it's certainly an interesting point of discussion, at least. Obviously it was worse and necessary for me--back when I started posting, Marina was who I felt I was, only. I developed a particularly acerbic personality on the internet. Now I've been trying to leave that behind, because I have Myself in person and the affectations are unnecessary and even a bit irritating. But on this board there's still the feeling that you must behave in a certain way to succeed in arguments--I've always felt that, so I've always tended to stage-manage my presence here.

[RedImperator]

I came online right in the middle, too late for Usenet, too early for Myspace. I find myself generally uncomfortable with using my real name online (it's possible to find it here, but I don't advertise), but the idea of creating a heroic backstory for myself just seemed...I dunno, too nerdy, even for me.

[LadyTevar]

I first started the 'net in 1988-89. We used handles, but otherwise were the same people online. Well... maybe a little bolder and flamboyant. There were some that tried to be much more than they were, lying about who and what they were, but for the most part they were a minority.

When I got back to where I was online all the time, it was 1998-99, playing in the RPG on AOL that Nit and I met on, mainly because a group of friends I gamed with were going wild about it. Teamhair NicIomhair Tahalshia was me... Irish, an accomplished Musician, and far prettier, but Me. Then came Jasmina bint Esau, a far darker, sensual side of my personality. Host BB Arachne made me the mother-figure, watching over the board during my shifts as Community Leader.

But they were all me, just exaggerated. Even on here, I am myself, just exaggerated and more willing to spout off my opinion. Is it a Generational thing? Maybe, but that makes me an older Gen than you, Marina. What does that say?

I don't know about Poe, but you found a way to be your 'true self', create the female you wanted to be. I never had any clue that The Duchess was anything other than fully female, abet with some really fucked up ideas on Imperialism and other Socio-Economic values. That is how I saw you. That is how I still see you, although I have to admit you've gotten pricker since coming out.

So... was it Generational, or was it people trying to be what they weren't? If it's Generational, then it hit yours and not mine or the current Gen.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

A fair point.

And yeah, I have been prickier. I should relax a bit about it and focus more on education like I've been trying with ray245, of all people.

I don't know, the whole AOL roleplaying thing I did to, and perhaps it was just more exagerrated in the circles I followed? Or I picked up the wrong impressions at the time. Almost all of my socialization has been through the internet to the extent that probably even exceeds the lamest of basement dwellers here, I'll admit.

[fgalkin]

I've come online around 2002, and back then, I was pretty much the same as in real life- a clueless n00b, even though I tried hard to pretend I wasn't. As time went by, and I've realized that I don't need to be anything other than myself, my online and real-life personalities have merged seamlessly, until what you see is what you get, more or less.

Of course, I've used my real name since the beginning, even if most people don't realize it.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Hotfoot]

A fair point.

And yeah, I have been prickier. I should relax a bit about it and focus more on education like I've been trying with ray245, of all people.

I don't know, the whole AOL roleplaying thing I did to, and perhaps it was just more exagerrated in the circles I followed? Or I picked up the wrong impressions at the time. Almost all of my socialization has been through the internet to the extent that probably even exceeds the lamest of basement dwellers here, I'll admit.

I did a bunch of chatroom roleplay back in the day. It's how I met one of my closest friends IRL. Needless to say you don't build a relationship like that based on deceptions.

[Edi]

I was never anything but myself and I've always used this handle or a slight variation of it. Came online in 1999, so not familiar with usenet or MySpace etc, forums like this are the ones I've known throughout. I speak my mind, though perhaps a bit more forcefully than in real life (but not a whole lot more). I see people behind the handles, though the choice of handle can influence my initial impressions of people.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

I got my feet wet online in the mid-'90s, and I formally jumped into debate scene back in the middle of 2000. My moniker was only modestly geeky, and my real name was embedded in my e-mail address. I was also mostly myself in those days. Still am, even up to now.

[Mr Bean]

I've never been anything other than me. Under an assumed name because of an old joke a friend made about me. But since 1997 I've been myself. As I've changed over the years(Schooling, Service, and I don't have a third S word but I'm looking, lets go with Civilian for now) I've changed online. But I've always been me. Even if I've not been heavy invested in Internet forums until 1998 when I first came on line as Mr Bean way back on the Pandemic forums for the expected launch of Battlefield 2(then over a year away).

And it was that on-line discussion that led me to other forums. I however spent nearly two years without Internet and it was not until Mike started his forum here that I got back on the Internet in any serious way.

[Sea Skimmer]

I’ve always been myself, and I’ve even been highly consistent on the pseudonym I use, which I adapted since I was pretty young when I started posting online. I hid most of the details of my life at first, to an extent I still kind of do, but what I did give up pretty much told the whole story anyway. I didn’t have to do this either, when I first started posting on warships1 I was in middle school, and people though I was in collage, but I corrected them at once when I could have easily lived out the lie and never suffered for it.

And it was that on-line discussion that led me to other forums. I however spent nearly two years without Internet and it was not until Mike started his forum here that I got back on the Internet in any serious way.

You set the standard for serious, what with running up 10,000 posts in the time it took most of us to reach 1,000. Making up for lost time I guess?

[Lagmonster]

I've never been afraid of who I am. I think that makes me less likely to be someone online that I wouldn't be caught dead being offline.

That said, I think the act of going from a caricature to an actual person represents a change in maturity, in confidence, a shedding of fear and an onset of trust, be it deserved or foolish. Perhaps some people never made that change because they were always too trusting or self-assured, or perhaps lacking in imagination to begin with. Whereas others found themselves caught in the jarring situation of being outed for who they were and forced to adapt.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I suppose I've previously engaged in mirror-imaging, then, assuming that (albeit for very different reasons) everyone was doing the same thing as I was, heightening some aspects of their personality for dramatic effect, that is.

Interesting.

[Hotfoot]

I suppose I've previously engaged in mirror-imaging, then, assuming that (albeit for very different reasons) everyone was doing the same thing as I was, heightening some aspects of their personality for dramatic effect, that is.

Interesting.

This isn't to say we all don't act in a subtly different way online, but it's more like when we're palling around with good friends. We say and do things we would NEVER do in polite society, but it's still who we are.

[Mr Bean]

And it was that on-line discussion that led me to other forums. I however spent nearly two years without Internet and it was not until Mike started his forum here that I got back on the Internet in any serious way.

You set the standard for serious, what with running up 10,000 posts in the time it took most of us to reach 1,000. Making up for lost time I guess?

You know there was a point in 2003 when I held 21% of all forum posts on this board and all of it's "GASP!" six subforums.


Yes in 2003 I had been in the service for just over a year and my first command put me in a defense department repair shop with 12 hour a day Internet access and very little work to do. I would often do email before I left for work, on a good day we had two hours of work to fill twelve hours of time so I'd post constantly on these forums as one of the few which got past filters. My rise to Moderator came chiefly because I could watch the forums fourteen hours a day some days.
So yes I had a good six months there where I averaged 72 post a day and we had less than five hundred posters.

[Coyote]

I move we...move this. To OT. I've already had one request from a plebe who finds it interesting.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I don't have a problem with that.

[fgalkin]

And...done!

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[The Yosemite Bear]

I started with bulletin boards in the 1980s we we're merciless unless it was to Chaos Kitten, because an actual 14 year old posting adult fiction had to be protected.

[Havok]

I hope you understand why I was questioning your remarks in that previous thread a little better now Marina.

Myself, as I have stated already, am about as close to exactly the same on here and in RL as one can probably get. I get to cuss at my boss and his boss (his dad), and all my coworkers. I can be crude, flirtatious, and ridiculous at work as well. Hell, it is where I met Jenn, so you can imagine what else I got to do at work. Fuck. I hang around with a bunch of criminals bikers. I actually have to be NICER here!

Ever since my Uncle introduced me to computers by way of, I think Compuserve and... Prodigy? I think it was. I was talking and babbling on them. I've always been myself, mostly because no one ever told me not to. Giving out personal info, which at the time I barely had any of, was a no brainer. You don't give it out to RL strangers, why would you give it out to electronic ones?

But yeah... Always have been me, and I have been using some form Keff since I made my first handle, as it was a character I used to draw all the time as a kid and I always thought that Gabe, sounded lame. Havoc was added in around 95 to the new ones as it was a nickname in RL I picked up, for good reasons, from my first "girlfriend".

[Phantasee]

I used to have a username with my first initial and last name, I even signed up with it here, but I got it changed pretty fast. Phantasee is just a name I came up with in Grade 7 for fun with a few friends, and I kind of liked it. I've used it for tagging too.

I've sort of had a double life, but not to the extent the Duchess apparently has. I'm intentionally unclear about some things, but that's probably just my paranoia. If you went and trawled through all my posts, you'd probably learn something about me, maybe even enough to find out who I am (if you're Acadamia Nut or Tith) or where I live.

But then, I never post anything to make myself interesting enough for anyone to bother hunting me anyway. Wouldn't want anyone to call me at work

[Metatwaddle]

I think I first came online when I was 11, so about 1998 or 1999 (before COPPA). I guess when I first started signing up for webforums, my parents gave me so many warnings and such that I got the impression that the internet was basically something to be feared. To their credit, they didn't watch over my shoulder too much. At their advice, I didn't tell people anything about myself. I never gave my location in any more specificity than a time zone, I didn't often tell people how old I was, and when I came to SDN I was perfectly happy to pass as male. I never lied, but I omitted a lot. These days I'm more forthright. Given what I have said about myself here at SDN, it would be easy for anyone to find out who I am. I know there are creepy people out there, but luckily nobody really has a motive to track me down. That's not to say it couldn't happen, but I think I could protect myself if it did. I'm much more worried about dangerous people in my town than I am about dangerous people online.

I'm also pretty comfortable meeting SDNers in person, which is something I never would have imagined myself doing ten years ago.

But I don't agree with the assumption (and maybe it's not there and I'm misreading) that a difference between my online persona and my RL persona must mean I'm faking something that is genuine in my RL interactions. I omit a lot of information about myself in real life, too, because it's just nobody's business. And I don't voice a lot of my unpopular and super-liberal opinions IRL, except around a few atheist and feminist friends and a liberal atheist professor. I don't create personas, but I do act very differently depending on who I'm with, and SDN is not an exception.

[Lord Revan]

personality wise, I've always been pretty much same online as in "real life" as that's the personality I'm most familiar with.

the Problems with lies or playing a role is that you'll eventually get caught

though this has caused some ironic situations in WoW as normally play female characters (in an "normal" or non-role play server ofc) as my normal personality is not what you would call stereo typically male so I've been mistaken for female at times, which I've always corrected ofc, but I still find the question "you're a guy right?" somewhat amusing as I'm not behaving that femine in imho even if I consider penis messuaring constests a pointless waste of time and consider that some female "armor" would belong in a fetish shop.