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The Spartan wrote:Indefinite or Other Long Lasting Food:
I was reading something about 19th century sailing and they mentioned hardtack. Now, I remember that from watching programs about the Civil War but I know relatively little about it beside it being a thick cracker and storing easily.

So, it got me thinking wouldn't it be at least somewhat useful, not to metion inexpensive, to bake up a store of this (or something similar)? How long would it last if kept in a Ziploc bag, Tupperware container or vacuum sealed bag?

That in turn got me thinking about what other kinds of food would keep like this and frankly, I can't think of any. Though I do know that Moutain House makes #10 cans of freeze dried food that will last, unopened for up to 30 years, IIRC.

Does anyone have any additional information? Advice?

I'd go with Pemmican (wiki warning) personally. It keeps a long time if stored properly and you don't have to be as concerned about adding other things to your diet like you would with hardtack. It is also just plain easier to eat then hardtack, just heat it up.

When storing pemmican, how long is a 'long' time?

CaptainChewbacca wrote:When storing pemmican, how long is a 'long' time?

Supposedly it lasts indefinitely ( I think we both know thats unfeasible) but it should last at least a year. Most people own a deep freeze or have access to some form of cold storage though, so if you package it decently (not in a zip lock bag) then it should keep longer then that.

The Spartan wrote:Indefinite or Other Long Lasting Food:
I was reading something about 19th century sailing and they mentioned hardtack. Now, I remember that from watching programs about the Civil War but I know relatively little about it beside it being a thick cracker and storing easily.

So, it got me thinking wouldn't it be at least somewhat useful, not to metion inexpensive, to bake up a store of this (or something similar)? How long would it last if kept in a Ziploc bag, Tupperware container or vacuum sealed bag?

This hardtack sounds alot like knäckebröd or skorpor. The first is a type of hard bread thats very popular in sweden and finland, the second is also popular, but it's more a sweet, usually cinnamon powerded snack to be served with coffee or tea. You can buy it in any store and it lasts, I think I've had had a pack of knäckebröd for almost a year without problems. Ofcourse neither are so hard you cannot eat them without soaking them first.

Well I have taken steps in the right direction.

Recently at work they decided to axe 99% of the OT out there in our department. I lived on OT. The net affect is I lost a bare minimum of 15% of my income due to this change. To say that I am pissed is an understatement. The IT department bragged about saving a million dollars recently. Our department contributed a whopping 1.1% of that savings. Its not like we are a big company. Something like 1,600 employees all total. The IT department is less then 100 people (Help Desk, LAN, WAN, Data Center, Item Processing, and PMO). By cutting OT from the Help Desk they saved a whopping 1.1%, then they have the gall to brag about this savings to the department whose throats they slit. HD had more OT then any other department because of our schedule. So total savings from slashing OT was miniscule. Maybe a total of 5% of that 1 million.

Yeah, as you can tell I am pissed. Its going to take me 5 years to earn my way back to what we lost through raises.

So anyway I decided it was time to make some changes. I have just paid off every single debt I had, so none of that hanging over my neck. Now I am riding my bike to work almost every day. I live only about a mile from work, so its good for me. Hardly takes any time at all, saves me a lot in gas every month. I also started riding my bike during my 1 hour lunch. I've found I can hit almost any part of the city within 20 minutes from where I work. So I can ride all over on my lunch for exercise, and I can ride when I need to run errands and pick things up at the store. That leaves my minivan for the long trips, and any heavy items. I figure this ought to save me about $80 a month on gas, and its going to be very beneficial to my health.

If you need to carry large or heavy items on your bike, you can get a bike trailer which you can tow behind your bike to fit all the big stuff. There's various designs around for carrying cargo, babies, or camping gear, for groceries you can just grab a used baby trailer at a nice discount but if you need to move furniture & other items like that you'll need the cargo models. That leaves the minivan for long trips or rainy & snowy days when you can't or don't want to ride.

The Bike Trailer would be a little too large for the space I have available. But if circumstances will allow it, I will strongly consider.

His Divine Shadow wrote:

The Spartan wrote:Indefinite or Other Long Lasting Food:
I was reading something about 19th century sailing and they mentioned hardtack. Now, I remember that from watching programs about the Civil War but I know relatively little about it beside it being a thick cracker and storing easily.

So, it got me thinking wouldn't it be at least somewhat useful, not to metion inexpensive, to bake up a store of this (or something similar)? How long would it last if kept in a Ziploc bag, Tupperware container or vacuum sealed bag?

This hardtack sounds alot like knäckebröd or skorpor. The first is a type of hard bread thats very popular in sweden and finland, the second is also popular, but it's more a sweet, usually cinnamon powerded snack to be served with coffee or tea. You can buy it in any store and it lasts, I think I've had had a pack of knäckebröd for almost a year without problems. Ofcourse neither are so hard you cannot eat them without soaking them first.

One year for knäckebröd (or 'näkkileipä' in Finnish) is nothing. My father went to the army in the 1960s and they were eating packets of that stuff that had a manufacture date in the mid-1940s without any problems. Store it dry and it will last ten to fifteen years easily, though the nutrient value is bound to degrade over time. It's variously translated as crisp bread or hard bread. Wikipedia link

anyone now has any ideas on creating savings that will outpace inflation?

For those of you who have Mormon/LDS friends, ask them about their local Bishop's Storehouse/Cannery facility. You can buy bulk food in massive quantities for really low prices- my wife and I just picked up 200lbs of dry food for a good deal. Check out local sites at http://www.providentliving.org

Is this thread still going on, or is this just necroing?

What I suggest is get thee a nice couple of square meters of land (be it backyard, garden, whatever) and dig a hole, cover it in plastic, then put a layer of transparent plastic on it, with a hole right in the middle, put a rock heavy enough to make the plastic all funnel-like and... voila! Instant rainwater reservoir! Nothing is purer than rainwater!

As someone who has eaten hardtack, I definitely recommend finding something else to eat. It is flavorless, it is difficult to render it edible, and you could use hardtack to tile your fucking garden path.

Canned goods, jerky, dried fruit, and MRE's are all readily available and long-lasting. You can also get freeze-dried food like Mountain House. Officially, most military rations have a maximum shelf-life of ten years, but they generally last much longer than that. I've eaten rations left over from Desert Storm and even Vietnam and suffered no ill effects.

What I suggest is get thee a nice couple of square meters of land (be it backyard, garden, whatever) and dig a hole, cover it in plastic, then put a layer of transparent plastic on it, with a hole right in the middle, put a rock heavy enough to make the plastic all funnel-like and... voila! Instant rainwater reservoir! Nothing is purer than rainwater!

First of all, this assumes you have a couple square meters of land.

Second, you do realize that rainwater is NOT pure, right? The entire process of formation of raindrops is moisture condensing on atmospheric dust particles until they get heavy enough to fall.

And that doesn't include contaminants like birds crapping on your rain gathering rig, leaves and dirt getting blown into it, etc.

If there's some sort of accident (massive fire at a factory or chemical plant) or war (chemical weapons, nuclear weapons), your rainwater is not only NOT pure, it's also likely to fucking kill you, or at least make you sick.

At the very least, when you gather rain water for drinking, you need to boil it before drinking it. Preferably you should be boiling and filtering it. If it's full of radioactive fallout or chemical contaminants, I wouldn't even bother with it. You can't even use it to bathe in. Just rely on bottled water, which is cheaply available in jugs and cases of bottles. You can also keep tap water in other containers (large soda bottles, with a tiny bit of bleach or iodine, and I do mean TINY) added, kept in a black garbage bag to prevent bacteria/algae growth). If you have a basement, 55 gallon drums are inexpensive and having two or three full of fresh water (cycle it so they're always full of fresh water, not stale) goes a long way toward keeping you set on drinking water.

In a worse case scenario, you can also fill the tub and use that for drinking and flushing the toilet. In a pinch, draining the water heater will provide you with a few gallons of water too. If there's an issue with contaminated water, beer will do in a pinch (as in New Orleans after the hurricane) so long as you remember that too much of it will dehydrate you rather than hydrate you, and hard liquor mixed with water will help kill bacteria in it. Again, boiling is recommended. Just be sure to boil it BEFORE putting alcohol in it.

For those of you with a backyard - grow sorghum. It'll grow just about anywhere, it's easy to process into flour or syrup, and you can make liquor from it.

For that matter, try and wean yourself onto homebrew and distillation if you drink a lot. The savings can be quite pronounced when you make the stuff out of stuff you grow - you just pay the initial fee for a good rig and a license for distillation, the odd lot of replacement yeast, and some bottles.

Raise chooks, too - you can get moveable chook sheds now that'll let you mow the lawn with them. Tasty eggs, delicious meat, and all on a low budget.

I'm using the last two, just not sorghum - I grow watermelons, onions, garlic, pumpkins, lemons, and mangos instead. Watermelon wine, by the way, is delicious.

Here's a small tip for turning off appliances: Get remote-controlled switches. Granted, it may seem lazy but some stuff isn't necessarily easily accessible to unplug rather than just turned off and most appliances still draw power when merely turned off as opposed to unplugged. Quick and easy convenience will go a long way to get it done, even if a little extra workout is also good for you if you have the time. They're cheap and it's just to plug them in. Saves the life on your appliances (just don't turn them on/off too often) and your power bill as well. Remote switches can also allow your children to turn on/off lights they can't reach if you have any (or if they're still afraid of the dark). Timers may be applicable for some things as well, if not already built-in.

Pardon if mentioned already.

PS. Pushing for LED lights (very energy efficient and a generally good investment), you can also buy LED dimmers nowadays, although they seem to be AC only as of yet. Or how about LED tape for say, christmas or party decor, or lightlines to follow - your imagination sets the limits.

Batteries - rechargeable ones as much as possible. They're worth it in the long run as well.

A friend of mine used a solar cell to keep the battery amp in his caravan (mobile home). Applicable for any seasonal vehicle, convenient.

One tip I have found for those that have trouble saving money is what is known as the dollar saving plan. The plan is simple you just don't spend 1 dollar bills. Every time you spend cash and get change any ones you have cease to exists as spendable currency so separate them from the rest of your money. At the end of the day put them in a big jar or something and watch the savings slowly build up.

hunter5 wrote:One tip I have found for those that have trouble saving money is what is known as the dollar saving plan. The plan is simple you just don't spend 1 dollar bills. Every time you spend cash and get change any ones you have cease to exists as spendable currency so separate them from the rest of your money. At the end of the day put them in a big jar or something and watch the savings slowly build up.

This helps if you spend cash and use your bank card only for making withdrawals. Buying things with cash only is a habit I've made an effort to have so I can actually see what I spend, but too many people don't and then wonder why their bank account is empty.

Kodiak wrote:For those of you who have Mormon/LDS friends, ask them about their local Bishop's Storehouse/Cannery facility. You can buy bulk food in massive quantities for really low prices- my wife and I just picked up 200lbs of dry food for a good deal. Check out local sites at http://www.providentliving.org

Good Advice! I started stockpiling food, AFTER learing that every Mormon family has a whole years supply of food stockpiled... (What do they know? )

...of course with the gun and ammo stockpile I never worry about the future. Heck, some days I wish the King of England would try to come over here and try to take his land back.

Benedick-Arnold wrote:

Kodiak wrote:For those of you who have Mormon/LDS friends, ask them about their local Bishop's Storehouse/Cannery facility. You can buy bulk food in massive quantities for really low prices- my wife and I just picked up 200lbs of dry food for a good deal. Check out local sites at http://www.providentliving.org

Good Advice! I started stockpiling food, AFTER learing that every Mormon family has a whole years supply of food stockpiled... (What do they know? )

...of course with the gun and ammo stockpile I never worry about the future. Heck, some days I wish the King of England would try to come over here and try to take his land back.

First of all, it's the Queen and she's unlikely to do so. Second, if Britain did get that idea, you'd never get to do any of the shooting, because they wouldn't make it across the Atlantic.

As for stockpiling food, it isn't just a Mormon thing. We have a basement and deep freeze full of stockpiled food simply because we maintain a large garden and can't eat all of it as it's harvested. It comes in very handy.

Rogue 9 wrote:

Benedick-Arnold wrote:

Kodiak wrote:For those of you who have Mormon/LDS friends, ask them about their local Bishop's Storehouse/Cannery facility. You can buy bulk food in massive quantities for really low prices- my wife and I just picked up 200lbs of dry food for a good deal. Check out local sites at http://www.providentliving.org

Good Advice! I started stockpiling food, AFTER learing that every Mormon family has a whole years supply of food stockpiled... (What do they know? )

...of course with the gun and ammo stockpile I never worry about the future. Heck, some days I wish the King of England would try to come over here and try to take his land back.

First of all, it's the Queen and she's unlikely to do so. Second, if Britain did get that idea, you'd never get to do any of the shooting, because they wouldn't make it across the Atlantic.

Well, with the Royal Navy and all, and all those Gurkhas there's not much a man and his guns could do against that. Despite the unlikelihood of all of it happening nowadays.

Drinks:
Drink Tap water if you live in a area where it has drinkin water quality - which should, generally, be the case in any first world country, unless you live in a really shitty area. In any case, check the quality of your tap water first - if you have bad plumbing, it might be disadvantageous to drink it in large quantities. But in most cases, there is absolutely no problem.
Tap water is very cheap (less than 1/10th per litre of what you pay for bottled water)and you also do not have to carry all those bottles. It's an easy way to save a nice sum of money.
If a litre of bottled water costs about 0.50$, you would spend about 45$ per person each month on it. With tap water, it would cost less than 10$. Not much, but every bit can help and in most cases it is no disadvantage.

I drink tap water in restauraunts and pubs (as well as at home).

Bottled water? Pffft.

I don't drink the tap water out here, but that's because the water is extremely alkaline, if technically drinkable (we do use it to make kool-aid because it masks the tastes well enough), and the wells here are utterly undrinkable (tried to make kool-aid with well water once and it was disgusting). On the other hand, I can get water for 25 cents per gallon if I bring my own containers to refill, and that's several times cheaper than it would be to buy bottled water. Bottled water is a rip-off, no two ways about it.

Kuroji wrote:I don't drink the tap water out here, but that's because the water is extremely alkaline, if technically drinkable (we do use it to make kool-aid because it masks the tastes well enough), and the wells here are utterly undrinkable (tried to make kool-aid with well water once and it was disgusting). On the other hand, I can get water for 25 cents per gallon if I bring my own containers to refill, and that's several times cheaper than it would be to buy bottled water. Bottled water is a rip-off, no two ways about it.

For bottled water, please spell 'Evian" bckwards.

As to tap water, I picked up one of those water filter jugs, and use it to keep filtered water cool in the fridge. Not so much maximizing my resources, but keeping water cleaner.

Keep in mind there's bottled water and then there's bottled water.

Gallon or more sized jugs (bottles, if you will) are a handy thing to keep around if you live in an area that is, for example, in the path of hurricanes and there's a possibility that you'd be without running water for a few days. Ditto for earthquake zones.

Those little half liter sized bottles on the other hand... I wouldn't be particularly saddened if they were more or less banned outright they're such a fucking waste.

The rest of the time, though, if your tap water isn't up to par, get a filter jug like you said and a reusable water bottle.

Found a Reader's Digest article about food. The entire link is below, but the following were probably better suited for this thread:
1) Instead of gourmet frozen food, make your own
4) Boxed rice dishes (just use regular rice, and add spices)
6) Spice mixes (read the ingredients, make your own, with less salt)
14) pre-formed meat patties, vs ground meat
15) tomato based pasta sauces (vs cook your own)

http://www.rd.com/home-garden/15-foods- ... html#slide