Posted: 2008-04-20 11:13pm
So, Volleyball, where's that response? Y'know, the one you've been crafting for a whole week now and for which you've been granted an extra day to post?
Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid ideas
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To be generous, it is still 4/20 somewhere in the world.Illuminatus Primus wrote:After midnight now. Where's Volleyball?
Bwahahaha....Volleyball wrote:Actually, in a free market, people get rich in the first place not by utilizing force but by utilizing consent. And effective, honorable defense agencies will be better financed because it will have more clients.
I see the million dollar question that we've all been asking, I wait eagerly for Volly to finally reply, and...You mean construct a voluntary society which does not eventually have a government take over?I challenge you to construct a realistic voluntary society which does not eventually result in a monopoly on force.
I second Edi's notion. Painful to read, no amusement value, no argument but again repeating "witty" quotes as if being "witty" constitutes evidence of anything.Edi wrote:What a fucking useless twat.
Volly didn't answer a simple question relating to the functionality of anarchism; because if he will, he'd have to admit it doesn't function and reverts to some form of government invariably.Volly wrote:You mean construct a voluntary society which does not eventually have a government take over?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who caught Voluntaryist lack of historical knowledge here, and I'm not the brightest bulb in the box. Historically the rebels were having their asses handed to them until the French, Spainish and Dutch interceded for their own benefit (the French more directly in the Battle of the Chesapeake and the Battle of Yorktown). Without such intervention it would be extremely hard to argue the American Revolution would have succeeded at all.Voluntaryist wrote:The rebels mostly used privately owned weapons and guerrila tactics, and they were British colonists who weren't fighting some foreign aggressor but the very government that claimed to be protecting and representing them.Surlethe wrote:As above, examples aren't evidence. And this isn't even a true example; they effectively defended themselves because their government borrowed money to fund a military and brought in military leaders from other countries (which had governments) to train it.Voluntaryist wrote: One example: The American colonies effectively defended themselves from the outside aggression of the British Empire because households had guns to defend themselves with.
Treat this as a court of law and you're the prosecutor. The burden of proof is solely on you (and Surlethe may slam you on this). Your opponent, the defense attorney, can only respond to arguments you make and arguably are failing to make. If you can't make your case your opponent need do nothing to support the status quo.Voluntaryist wrote:The burden of proof is only on me to support free markets, yes. But the burden of proof is on you to support government, which you aren't doing.
Voluntaryist wrote:You are the one proposing the additional entity: government.
Voluntaryist wrote:The burden of proof is only on me to support free markets, yes. But the burden of proof is on you to support government, which you aren't doing. You merely assume government meets the burden.
Given his rambling on courts, he obviously doesn't even understand the justice system.Vohu Manah wrote:Treat this as a court of law and you're the prosecutor.
News flash, Einstein, courts aren't supposed to operate on a basis of getting cases in and out quickly. They're supposed to discover the FACTS and decide the fate of a person(s) life. The system based on getting trials through the fastest (more trials = greater profits) is NOT going to be effective at dispensing out justice.Valleytard wrote:But a free market has the incentive advantage: competition and consumer choice. A court system that has to compete for customers has stronger performance incentives compared to a court system that has no competition, and whose customer base is guaranteed regardless of its performance.
Again, the shithead doesn't even understand the point of courts. The court that is "best for them" is going to be the one that decides in their favor, regardless of the facts. The fact that people don't get to choose their judge in real courts is a GOOD thing.In a government system, nobody even gets to "agree" on which court arbitrates them; they are forced to use it regardless. But in a free market, people will have the ability to choose what arbitration court they feel is best for them.
In light of the fact mentioned above, NO ONE will be able to agree on a private court to settle their disputes.If they cant agree on a court, they can settle it through negotiations by attorneys or insurance companies or something similar.
No, it won't. You can't just make these declaration and expect everyone to accept them. The solution provided by the free market would be "what can you afford" which for most of the population is "jack shit"But the market will allow for an agreeable solution to be found,
Wrong again asswipe. The consumer is far more vulnerable in the system where he has to pay for everything out of his own pocket, many of which most people can't even pretend to afford. I can't believe this shithead actually swallows this tripe.while in a government there is no agreement to be made in the first place, for you are forced to use their system. Without any choice in the matter the consumer is left far more vulnerable.
For the last time, you goddamned nitwit: the Revolutionary War was fought by properly organised armies in the field led by an officer corps and trained by professional European military men, all operating under the authority of the Continental Congress —a duly constituted government. The only phase of the fighting in which guerilla tactics played any significant role was in the Carolinas and even then it was merely an adjunct to the campaign led by Nathaniel Green and his army. And as has been pointed out numerous times to you, without European recognition and intervention (mainly by France), the Americans would have lost, probably by 1780 at the latest.Volleyball wrote:The rebels mostly used privately owned weapons and guerrila tactics, and they were British colonists who weren't fighting some foreign aggressor but the very government that claimed to be protecting and representing them.
This isn't true even for the average American, much less the average person in the world.Voluntarist wrote:Protection agencies can be similar to insurance agencies where people buy in to a kind of coverage policy. That's hardly out of reach for the common man.
Anyone know the specific name for this type of fallacy? The sheer stupidity not only of "less government is better than more, so therefore no government must be best!" but that these selective examples are not representative of the whole is really striking.The government of West Germany claimed less control over its citizens than East Germany, and was more successful. Same goes for USA vs USSR, South Korea vs North Korea, and Hong Kong vs mainland China, to name a few.
Idiotic generalization? Leap in logic (the conclusion that there is no optimal governing power, but instead no governing is best)? Ignoring all other factors? There's so many he made.TC Pilot wrote:Anyone know the specific name for this type of fallacy?
It seems to be the opposite of the golden mean.TC Pilot wrote:Anyone know the specific name for this type of fallacy?
I think valleytard should get a -1 penalty for being late. And Surlethe has only made two posts thus farScore remains Surlethe: 3, Voluntaryist: 0