FIFA World Cup Thread

[Hillary]

Congratulations to Spain.

And a healthy fuck you to the referee. If he weren't chickening out of carding all the time, the Dutch team would have finished the game with only like 6 players left.

Well that would have finished the game as both sides need to have at least 7 players on the pitch at any one time - i.e. he'd have had to have abandoned the match.

On a serious note, Webb couldn't really win, could he? Had he sent off players too readily, he'd have been slagged off for ruining the spectacle. I seem to remember refs getting roundly criticised for sending players off earlier in the tournament. Spain were hardly angels themselves to be fair.

[Thanas]

The Spanish were diving, but to be fair to them, the Dutch should have been on 9 or 10 men in the first half, as there were some spectacularly dirty tackles from them.

I am still reeling from the Dutch player kicking the Spanish one in the chest. With those spikes, that could easily have done some damage.

On a serious note, Webb couldn't really win, could he? Had he sent off players too readily, he'd have been slagged off for ruining the spectacle. I seem to remember refs getting roundly criticised for sending players off earlier in the tournament. Spain were hardly angels themselves to be fair.

True, but the Dutch were a whole different level in the violence.

[Hillary]

On a serious note, Webb couldn't really win, could he? Had he sent off players too readily, he'd have been slagged off for ruining the spectacle. I seem to remember refs getting roundly criticised for sending players off earlier in the tournament. Spain were hardly angels themselves to be fair.

True, but the Dutch were a whole different level in the violence.

That I agree with.

[wautd]

Congratulations to Spain. Hard to believe this was their first WC finale ever and cudos for winning it.

I predicted 0-0 with Spain winning with the penalties. So close

[LaCroix]

Well that would have finished the game as both sides need to have at least 7 players on the pitch at any one time - i.e. he'd have had to have abandoned the match.

Which means that the game would have ended as soon as there were only six Dutch left, as I said.

[Crown]

Gragh, fuck Spain.

This should be good ...

I saw at least 3 cards handed to the Netherlands which were hardly contact, and the one red card was laughable.

The Dutch ended on 9 yellow cards, and should have ended the game with 9 men at the least (Van Brommel, Robben and De Jong)

The reason that that kick to the chest wasn't an automatic red was that the Netherlands player conceeded to the ref that he had done it, and it was not intentional, you can tell by his 'oh shit' look after the fact.

Bullshit. Howard either botteled it, or didn't see it. Intent only comes into play when you do a two footed challenge(for example) and do not hit the other person, then it's up to the ref to decide if there was malicious intent or not. If there is it's a red.

For example I'm pretty sure that Shawcross didn't mean to snap Ramsey's leg in two, but it happened and he was shown red.

De Jong might have/might have not meant to go fly kicking studs showing into Xabi Alonso's chest, but he did. And he should have been shown a straight red for ticking all the criteria of dangerous play.

The ref was apparently under instructions to avoid reds if possible, to not have a repeat of the zidane incident costing a team a WC.

Most likely.

tl;dr
Dive more, Spain, you're giving u-boats a run for their money.

tl;dr
One team was playing football, the other was playing 'kick the shit out of our opposition to stop them playing football'.

I'm gutted for Kuyt (he was fantastic), but Spain are deserved winners.

[Big Orange]

Paul the Psychic Octopus is a freak that must be killed immediately.

Anyway it's a nice change that Spain has won the World Cup this time, in a tournament that seemed (IMHO) quite dull for the large part, with old foes like the Argentinan and French teams arguably even more humiliated than England's pretty sorry lot (the team manager for France is a kook by all accounts and ditto for Maradona). The Germans were an aggressive team that went far, but at least they had finesse and skill, without resorting to outright thuggery like the Dutch did.

[Siege]

Well, congratulations to Spain. They certainly were the better team, although I still wonder what the fuck that referee was smoking. There were moments in that game I thought I was watching American Football, the way he paused for every fucking little nothing.

[LaCroix]

One team was playing football, the other was playing 'kick the shit out of our opposition to stop them playing football'.

Indeed. During the overtime, I was sure that any moment, a cage would descend from above, while the crowd would start chanting

"Two teams enter, one team leaves!"

[Tribun]

Now, after some thinking my flop and top 5 teams of the cup.

The flops first:

FLOP 5

1.)France - Without doubt the most embarrassing team of the whole World Cup. They didn't win a single match and produced headlines with their infighting. Thankfully this huge embarrassment ended with the group phase.

2.)Italy - To say it bluntly, Italy's football style is horrible. Extremely defensive and without ideas. To make matters worse, their extreme arrogance annoyed everyone. They deserved to be thrown out after the group phase.

3.)Argentina - Where to start? The whole team and especially Maradonna were a red cloth for almost everyone. Added to this was weak playing. They got what they were asking for when they were humiliated.

4.)England - Considering the huge amout of opportunity seen in the Premier League, England's performance was catastrophic, when they barely managed to survive the group phase. We should be thankful that we were spared more of them and their delusions after a sound trashing.

5.)Brazil - Yes, Brazil. Loathed almost everywhere because of their enormous ego and their thinking, that the cup is automatically theirs. Their playing was bad...simply bad. Good that the Dutch elminated them.

Now for the tops.

TOP 5

1.)Germany - You might think I'm biased, but the facts are impressive. Most goals scored, best goal difference, best scorer, best young player, 3rd place. Germany did really impressive and they also managed to give everyone what they wanted to see: good football playing, for which they were even praised by the English(!) press. Would have won the cup if not for Spain's destructive play style.

2.)Ghana- The third African team ever to reach the quarter finals. Unlike the other teams from the continent they were very disciplined and organised and propably would have reached the semi-finals if not for cheating from Uruguay (see below).

3.)Uruguay - Uruguay proved to be quite a strong team, managing the 4th place. However, the reason why they aren't at 2nd place in the list is the hand-ball against Ghana. This and afterwards boasting with it did cost them much credit and whenever that player had the ball, the specatators booed at him.

4.)Netherlands - The Netherlands did play good football. However, when it came to the final, the sheer foul-detensity (the Netherlands commited 28!) and the rain of cards prevents them from getting any higher.

5.)Spain - That Spain is in the list is because of the fact that they won the cup. Up until the match agaisnt Germany, their game had been uninspired and the final was simply embarrassing, being totally inferior to the match for 3rd place. But as if they care aftr winning.

[Modax]

I'm absolutely thrilled for Spain. Had Netherlands managed to win it would have been a crying shame given the way they behaved. They should have been able to hold their heads high at being runners-up, but they played a dirty game and then decided to be sore losers.

Despite Spain's economic woes I couldn't really ask for better conditions under which to go on a university student exchange to Madrid in September.

Loathed almost everywhere because of their enormous ego and their thinking, that the cup is automatically theirs.

Sounds like the Canadian olympic hockey team, except that we managed to win our tournament. So maybe Spain are a better analogy; lets see:

1) Entered the tournament as co-favourites: Check. Check.
2) Embarrassing loss in the group stage: Check. Check.
3) Co-favourite rivals leave the tournament in the quarterfinals in disgrace: Check. Check.
4) Struggled through much of the tournament despite having the most talented team: Check. Check.
5) Beautiful goal in extra time to win the tournament: Check. Check.

[Lief]

Wow, do any of you actually watch games beyond the WC?

Football is not a non contact sport, sure, holland put in some rought challenges, and there could of been decisions that went either way. If the players sense / know they are unlikely to get a red card for one bad challenge, they will make that challenge (hence why the yellow's were so spread out). The ref was also not at fault, he tried to make it a good game, and on the whole succeeded at that.

On the whole, the game was ref'd very well, with few mistakes.

The first half was very gritty, with few clear cut chances either way.

Holland should of gone ahead with robbens open chance, which could of sealed the game.

Spain could of equalised with the header from the corner, which was ALMOST an equally good chance.

Overall in 90mins, holland had the better chances, but just couldn't put one away.

Then holland got the red in extra time, and yet still had good chances, until cesc set up the winner.

Overall a good game, very tight, highly contested, as good a World Cup final as you could hope for, seeing as usually both teams are VERY cautious, and both defend, here both teams were reasonably open and brave with their set ups, and subs.

[Patrick Degan]

Wow, do any of you actually watch games beyond the WC?

Football is not a non contact sport, sure, holland put in some rought challenges, and there could of been decisions that went either way. If the players sense / know they are unlikely to get a red card for one bad challenge, they will make that challenge (hence why the yellow's were so spread out). The ref was also not at fault, he tried to make it a good game, and on the whole succeeded at that.

We know very well that footy is a contact sport, thank you. But there's no excuse for planting spikes into the middle of somebody else's chest like DeJong did. He should have gotten his ass red-carded on the spot but got away with it. Furthermore, there are at least three Bundesliga fans on this thread alone, and I watch the Premier League, UEFA and MLS. I've seen enough matches to know the difference between contact sporting and dirty play and that's what the Dutch were doing in that final. Fuck 'em —they deserved to lose and they would have deserved to lose with a nine-man side, and if that had happened and they would have been whining about the refs "taking" the World Cup away from them, I'd have been laughing every second at it. It's what you're supposed to get when you can't follow fucking rules.

[Minischoles]

I love the euphemisms that get thrown around (especially by the English talking heads inside the studio like Hansen and Shearer) as pointed out if this were an Premier League game, they'd have been applauding them 'getting up in their faces' or saying the game was 'hotly contested'.

The Dutch clearly went out with a plan of playing as dirty as they possibly could, and that does not make for good football. DeJong's kick was an automatic red, no doubt, and if it was anything but the world cup final he'd have been sent off before his boots even hit the ground again. There's playing a bit roughly, then there's going out and hacking the shins of your opponent.
I think with the refereeing it's pretty clear that the refs were told to back off in the last 16. Don't hand out too many reds or yellows, because we don't want the World Cup being decided (however deluded that view may be) on a card again.

[Lief]

We know very well that footy is a contact sport, thank you.

We? Do you mean 'I' or do you speak for everybody?

But there's no excuse for planting spikes into the middle of somebody else's chest like DeJong did. He should have gotten his ass red-carded on the spot but got away with it.

That was the only straight red decision I saw, but it was not a cynical tackle

Furthermore, there are at least three Bundesliga fans on this thread alone, and I watch the Premier League, UEFA and MLS. I've seen enough matches to know the difference between contact sporting and dirty play and that's what the Dutch were doing in that final.

It was not that dirty, I think you are reading the commentators / news reports too much, most of the tackles were fair attempts at getting the ball

Fuck 'em —they deserved to lose and they would have deserved to lose

Not really, it was a fairly even match.

with a nine-man side, and if that had happened and they would have been whining about the refs "taking" the World Cup away from them, I'd have been laughing every second at it. It's what you're supposed to get when you can't follow fucking rules.

The point when they hit ten men was pretty much the point the dutch deserved to go to ten men (one point earlier maybe)

They did follow the rules, and were carded when they broke them. The spanish could of also gone to ten, it was not a one sided affair by means of play or tackles.

[Patrick Degan]

We know very well that footy is a contact sport, thank you.

We? Do you mean 'I' or do you speak for everybody?

Take a good look at the people on this thread. There are plenty here who know the game.

But there's no excuse for planting spikes into the middle of somebody else's chest like DeJong did. He should have gotten his ass red-carded on the spot but got away with it.

That was the only straight red decision I saw, but it was not a cynical tackle

Bullshit. The ball was nowhere near where DeJong was aiming his spikes and the video shows it clearly. You have no argument.

It was not that dirty, I think you are reading the commentators / news reports too much, most of the tackles were fair attempts at getting the ball

No, I'm reading what I saw in the match that took place.

Fuck 'em —they deserved to lose and they would have deserved to lose

Not really, it was a fairly even match.

As you wish...

with a nine-man side, and if that had happened and they would have been whining about the refs "taking" the World Cup away from them, I'd have been laughing every second at it. It's what you're supposed to get when you can't follow fucking rules.

The point when they hit ten men was pretty much the point the dutch deserved to go to ten men (one point earlier maybe)

They did follow the rules, and were carded when they broke them. The spanish could of also gone to ten, it was not a one sided affair by means of play or tackles.

A team that gets carded 9 times out of 28 total team fouls committed (slightly more than the total number of fouls in the England v. Algeria match for both sides combined) doesn't seem to be doing such a good job in that department. Contrast Germany v. Uruguay: four cards total for both sides, only 13 fouls committed by Uruguay and 11 by Germany. Or Germany v. England: two cards and thirteen fouls total. Last year's Premier League season clocked only five matches out of 38 in which eight yellow cards were issued —between the two sides in each contest.

[Thanas]

I think with the refereeing it's pretty clear that the refs were told to back off in the last 16. Don't hand out too many reds or yellows, because we don't want the World Cup being decided (however deluded that view may be) on a card again.

Doubtful, otherwise Müller would have played in the semi.

[Wedge]

Wow, do any of you actually watch games beyond the WC?

I'm a Barça fan and watch every game they play and from what you are writing I doubt you know more about football than other people who have posted in this thread.

Football is not a non contact sport, sure, holland put in some rought challenges, and there could of been decisions that went either way. If the players sense / know they are unlikely to get a red card for one bad challenge, they will make that challenge (hence why the yellow's were so spread out). The ref was also not at fault, he tried to make it a good game, and on the whole succeeded at that.

Fuck you and anyone who defends how the dutch played.
"Football is not a non contact sport" =/= full contact, this is not martial arts.
Their TACTIC was to foul to cut the flow of the game, if that isn't shitty and shameful for and on itself, they fouled with over the top aggressiveness. They should have gotten more than one red card. Even Blatter criticized the (inexistent) fair-play in the final.
My question is, was the disgusting tactic of the dutch really necessary?
Germany playing one of the cleanest matches in this WC got the same result, lost 0-1.

On the whole, the game was ref'd very well, with few mistakes.

If you really think this game was well ref'd, clearly you don't see enough football outside of WC or better said, enough quality football.
The ref fucked up and didn't had control over the game. He didn't even follow a clear line, cards were given randomly. For example the yellow cards to Ramos, Puyol and Capdevilla were totally justified, but then he doesn't give a yellow card to Sneijder for what he did to Busquets? And by not giving the red card to DeJong for his karate-kick, he encouraged that behaviour. Holland played so dirty because he allowed it, the worst thing of all is THAT THEY CAN PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL. If Howard Webb would have found his balls and had forced NL to play football by discouraging their dirty play, we actually would have gotten a nice match.

[Siege]

Perhaps it should be pointed out that from the 9 cards the Dutch team got, at least 2 were because a player yelled at the referee for being a stupid fuckwit of the highest order (certainly Robben earned his card this way) or just plain not worth a yellow card to begin with (the second yellow that saw Heitinga sent off). Sure, Nigel de Jong shoulda got flaming red the moment he tried to impale Xabi Alonso, but overall I maintain the referee was being an utter idiot for most of that game, and particularly near the end of the second half and onward into the extension, when it seemed he couldn't make a right call if his life depended on it.

[Hillary]

The ref fucked up and didn't had control over the game. He didn't even follow a clear line, cards were given randomly. For example the yellow cards to Ramos, Puyol and Capdevilla were totally justified, but then he doesn't give a yellow card to Sneijder for what he did to Busquets? And by not giving the red card to DeJong for his karate-kick, he encouraged that behaviour. Holland played so dirty because he allowed it, the worst thing of all is THAT THEY CAN PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL. If Howard Webb would have found his balls and had forced NL to play football by discouraging their dirty play, we actually would have gotten a nice match.

Righto - so you think if Webb had sent off De Jong, this would have encouraged Holland to play football.....despite the fact that they would then have been a player short up against the best passing side in the world. LOL

It was not the referee who caused Holland to play the way they did. It was the fact that they got taught a footballing lesson in the first 15 minutes that led them to realise there was only one way they were going to win the match (it almost worked as well). As I said earlier, had he sent off De Jong and van Bommel in the first 30 minutes as he could have done, he'd have been castigated for ruining the game. He couldn't win; no referee could in that situation.

Referees do not act in isolation. They are advised on how to referee a match and how to interpret the rules (as a lot of them are highly subjective). It would come as no surprise if he was advised to try and keep his red card in his pocket if at all possible - showpiece final and all that.

[Crown]

Johan Cruyff has launched a blistering attack on the Dutch tactics and Howard Webb;

World Cup 2010: Dutch tactics upset Johan Cruyff
Dutch football legend Johan Cruyff has launched a scathing attack on Netherlands' display in the World Cup final, deriding it as "anti-football".

The Dutch received nine yellow cards, and a red card for Johnny Heitinga, as they lost 1-0 to Spain in South Africa.

"Sadly, they played very dirty," Cruyff told Spanish newspaper El Periodico.

"This ugly, vulgar, hard, hermetic, hardly eye-catching, hardly football style... If with this they got satisfaction, fine, but they lost."

Cruyff was the symbol of 'Total Football', which earned the Dutch successive World Cup final appearances in 1974 and 1978.

Netherlands coach Bert van Marwijk appeared to opt for pragmatism over style as he led the Oranje to a third final in South Africa, but the result was the same, as Andres Iniesta scored an extra-time winner for Spain.

But Sunday's game was also notable for Netherlands' surprisingly aggressive approach.

Cruyff, along with many others, believed Mark van Bommel and Nigel de Jong were lucky not to be sent off before half-time, Van Bommel for a tackle from behind on Iniesta and De Jong for kicking Xabi Alonso in the chest.

"They should have been down to nine immediately, then they made two [such] ugly and hard tackles that even I felt the damage," said the 63-year-old Cruyff.

"It hurts me that Holland chose an ugly path to aim for the title."

Cruyff brought his footballing philosophy to Barcelona in an eight-year spell as manager, and he is widely credited with the one-touch passing style still employed by the Catalan club, who provided the backbone of Spain's World Cup-winning squad.

However, in the Champions League semi-final last season, Pep Guardiola's side were upset by a defence-minded Inter Milan, coached by Jose Mourinho - a fact not lost on Cruyff.

"On Thursday they asked me from Holland 'Can we play like Inter? Can we stop Spain in the same way Mourinho eliminated Barca?'

"I said no, no way at all. I said no, not because I hate this style, I said no because I thought that my country wouldn't dare to and would never renounce their style. I said no because, without having great players like those of the past, the team has its own style.

"I was wrong. Of course I'm not hanging all 11 of them by the same rope, but almost. They didn't want the ball."

Cruyff also joined in the criticism of English referee Howard Webb, accusing him of being too soft with the players.

"A World Cup final deserves great refereeing and, above all, deserves a referee who dares to do everything it means to be a judge," he said.

And for reference lets examing that incident again;

[Thanas]

*snip truth*

No doubt people will continue to ignore Cruyff's words in favor of patriotic blinders.

[Siege]

That's really quite a preposterously silly thing to say, considering Cruijff is a man of nearly messianic stature in the Netherlands. If he has something to say about football, chances are he'll be listened to. Besides, the general sentiment amongst the public around here seems to be "yes, we didn't play a very good match... The referee was crap though". I haven't heard anyone claim, in newspapers or otherwise, that we deserved to win that match. Could've won, yes. Deserved to, no. So frankly I don't know what you're on about with that 'patriotic blinders' bit.

[Thanas]

That's really quite a preposterously silly thing to say, considering Cruijff is a man of nearly messianic stature in the Netherlands. If he has something to say about football, chances are he'll be listened to. Besides, the general sentiment amongst the public around here seems to be "yes, we didn't play a very good match... The referee was crap though". I haven't heard anyone claim, in newspapers or otherwise, that we deserved to win that match. Could've won, yes. Deserved to, no. So frankly I don't know what you're on about with that 'patriotic blinders' bit.

People denying that the netherlands should have been two or three players down by half-time, or that they did not play brutal football that was worse than any other match at the world cup, for example.

[Siege]

People denying that the netherlands should have been two or three players down by half-time, or that they did not play brutal football that was worse than any other match at the world cup, for example.

I haven't seen anyone deny that De Jong shoulda gotten red, or that Van Bommel could've been sent off as well. Not in this thread, not anywhere on the telly, and not in real life either -- and people can't seem to stop going on and on about the bloody finals, so that's saying something. Like I said, the consensus seems to be that yeah, we played a rough game (in fact it's frequently compared to the 2006 World Cup game - if you could indeed call it that - against Portugal), and we weren't as good as we could have been. So again, I haven't a bloody clue from where you get the impression that the Dutch are dealing with a 'patriotic blinders' issue.