The Olympics/Paralympics 2012

[Captain Seafort]

Even if that explanation is correct, she'll still be under suspicion for how fast her times have improved over the past few years.

Why? She's a teenager - at that age you'd expect her to be taking large bites out of her PB at every attempt because she's still developing.

And please - Americans have been bested plenty of times for gold medals. Some are spoiled, whiny brats just like there are athletes in other countries who are spoiled, whiny brats. Some of them just suck it up and deal that they weren't first (or second, or third) that particular day. But hey, tar them all with the same brush, that's not biased at all...

The US collectively has something of a reputation for being bad losers. I seem to recall that last time round there was a lot of rejigging of how the medal table was worked out by the US media in order to put the US at the top despite the Chinese wiping the floor with everyone.

[Masami von Weizegger]

As Olympic drug testing is pretty regular (though not perfect, of course) and surprising results are often scrutinised very closely by various organisations, including the IOC, the only reason to go on television and make such a cowardly, "plausible deniability"-type accusation is either bitterness and resentment or arrogance and idiocy where the accusers think they've spotted some hidden truth with their magnificent vision while the rest of the world blindly applauds. If you truly believe or have some legitimate evidence for cheating, bring it up, lodge a complaint. Don't do this bullshit "I'm not accusing anyone but isn't it suspicious, I think it speaks for itself. But I would never accuse..." rubbish.

American news outlets reconfiguring the medal tables in Beijing to rank countries in total number of medals instead of most gold (then silver, then bronze) as is the tradition so that the US would be ranked first was pretty funny though. While it's hardly just the Americans who are making these sorts of accusations, the ascension of China and its place in the American national culture as some sort of Neo Soviet Union Part Two: Electric Bugaloo seems to be helping to poison coverage of their athletes at these games (and in 2008 to a great extent).

[Captain Seafort]

American news outlets reconfiguring the medal tables in Beijing to rank countries in total number of medals instead of most gold (then silver, then bronze) as is the tradition so that the US would be ranked first was pretty funny though.

Pretty funny? It was the comedy moment of the games.

While it's hardly just the Americans who are making these sorts of accusations, the ascension of China and its place in the American national culture as some sort of Neo Soviet Union Part Two: Electric Bugaloo seems to be helping to poison coverage of their athletes at these games (and in 2008 to a great extent).

I'm not sure whether "neo Soviet Union" is quite the right term - it strikes me more as part of an increasing desperate attempt by a declining power to convince someone (itself or the rest of the world) that it's still the biggest kid on the block in the face of ever increasing evidence that it either a) isn't or b) won't be for much longer. This attempt occasionally resembles a five year old throwing a tantrum.

[Broomstick]

In 2008, Stephanie Rice beat her own record by over 6 seconds, an unbelievably fast result. No one accused her of doping then.

Why not? They certainly could have.

Yet, somehow when a Chinese athlete does it, it must be doping or, as John Leonard stated, genetic manipulation (yes, really, China is making genetic supermen for the Olympics). Never mind the fact that Ye is only 16 and grew 12 cm in the last 2 years, that couldn't be a reason for improvement, not at all!

- John Leonard is a fucking idiot for suggesting that.
- The Chinese aren't the only ones ever accused of doping
- Ye submitted to testing and is clean - good for her

And please - Americans have been bested plenty of times for gold medals. Some are spoiled, whiny brats just like there are athletes in other countries who are spoiled, whiny brats. Some of them just suck it up and deal that they weren't first (or second, or third) that particular day. But hey, tar them all with the same brush, that's not biased at all...

Do you dispute that most people here think that America is the Greatest Country in the World?

Do you mean "most people on this message board"? No, I don't think "most" people on this message board believe that and quite a few have been quite clear on just how far the US falls short of "greatest". Including some of the Americans. Yes, some of my fellow countrymen are idiots and I apologize for their embarrassing antics but US doesn't have a monopoly on idiocy and I'm hoping a few of them learn something by being here.

Do you dispute that athletes from America and the First World in general receive far less doping accusations than athletes from China and the former Soviet bloc, despite some pretty prominent doping scandals? (Marion Jones and Lance Armstrong come to mind. )

That is due partly to past cheating by the Soviet Bloc which was pretty blatant during the last part of the Cold War. I think they've cleaned up considerably, but I never claimed either side was cheat-free. If they want to call for testing of US medal winners they are free to do so. Anyone going to the Olympics has already consented to testing, it's a condition of participation.

Marion Jones, of course, did a deplorable thing and has been stripped of her wins. Do you have an issue with that, even if the cheating was uncovered past the Olympics?

As for Armstrong - until 2012 he successfully defended himself against charges. The verdict isn't in yet on the most recent set of accusations which, by the way, were brought by his own country's anti-doping association. Armstrong has always been under suspicion between his extraordinary seven wins and just how rotten international bike racing has been for a couple decades. I wouldn't be surprised if he's found to be a cheater because in many ways that's more likely than a non-doper winning against a field of cheaters. However, until the matter goes through proper channels he is as deserving of the same presumption of innocence as you wanted to give Ye.

[weemadando]

I propose a new Olympics where for each event a contestant from each nation is decided by random draw from the entire eligible populace (say ages 16-40 without precluding illness or disability). They then get a one month training camp and you have the Olympics. Surely that would be the best way?

[Broomstick]

That would make it into something other than the Olympics, which is supposed to celebrate athletic excellence. And instead of doping we'd have countries rigging the lotteries.

[weemadando]

This stopped being a celebration of athletic excellence a long time ago and became a celebration of which country can pour more money into identifying talent and isolating them from the rest of society in specialised training camps through their teenage years until they can be unleashed on an unsuspecting competition.

[mr friendly guy]

Ah more Olympic comedy, this time courtesy of some of the Chinese, South Korean and Indonesian women badminton players. Essentially since some Chinese, SK, and Indonesian teams had already qualified for the knock out round, whether they won or lost their final match would not stop them from advancing. So the Chinese top rank team decided to ahem "conserve energy" and played well below par. A none too charitable interpretation is that if they won, they would have another Chinese team, which they did not want to do until the final, so they played to lose. Things didn't go to script since the South Korean team did not decide to try to win (hey they want to lose, we want to win, so lets go for it). That's right, they decided it was fun to try to lose as well. Hilarity ensures as both teams are disqualified but reinstated on protests.

Another South Korean team then decides to throw a match against Indonesia so they don't face the Chinese team in the next round. Things don't go according to play when the Indonesian team decided they can do the same as well.

Now apparently people have accused the Chinese of doing this before, so that they don't play their compatriots too early. South Korea has apparently in the past under scrutiny for doing the same stuff, but in the men's competition.

I must say, I can't see this as cheating because their actions aren't trying to win. It does however bring the sport into disrepute (who would want to watch a game where the players try to lose). That appears to be what they will be charged with.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/eight-women-ch ... --spt.html

[Dartzap]

Ah excellent, first gold for us has arrived - ladies rowing.

[fgalkin]

Why not? They certainly could have.

They could have. They DIDN'T. That's the point!

- John Leonard is a fucking idiot for suggesting that.
- The Chinese aren't the only ones ever accused of doping
- Ye submitted to testing and is clean - good for her

Yes, but when a Western Athlete performs above expectations, they are given the benefit of the doubt. Not so for Chinese athletes. Case in point: Ruta Meilutyte, who literally came out of nowhere to take the Gold, and no one is questioning her performance at the Olympics.

Do you mean "most people on this message board"? No, I don't think "most" people on this message board believe that and quite a few have been quite clear on just how far the US falls short of "greatest". Including some of the Americans. Yes, some of my fellow countrymen are idiots and I apologize for their embarrassing antics but US doesn't have a monopoly on idiocy and I'm hoping a few of them learn something by being here.

No, I mean here IN THIS COUNTRY. The USA. Do you dispute that everyone is brainwashed from an early age to believe that America is the Greatest Country in the World? Do you dispute that saying otherwise will produce shock and outrage in the average American?

That is due partly to past cheating by the Soviet Bloc which was pretty blatant during the last part of the Cold War. I think they've cleaned up considerably, but I never claimed either side was cheat-free. If they want to call for testing of US medal winners they are free to do so. Anyone going to the Olympics has already consented to testing, it's a condition of participation.

Marion Jones, of course, did a deplorable thing and has been stripped of her wins. Do you have an issue with that, even if the cheating was uncovered past the Olympics?

As for Armstrong - until 2012 he successfully defended himself against charges. The verdict isn't in yet on the most recent set of accusations which, by the way, were brought by his own country's anti-doping association. Armstrong has always been under suspicion between his extraordinary seven wins and just how rotten international bike racing has been for a couple decades. I wouldn't be surprised if he's found to be a cheater because in many ways that's more likely than a non-doper winning against a field of cheaters. However, until the matter goes through proper channels he is as deserving of the same presumption of innocence as you wanted to give Ye.

Of course he is deserving of the same presumption of innocence. So, why is it not given to non-Western athletes? When Ruta Meilutyte, who trains at Plymouth College, wins a gold medal, she is lauded as a great athlete. When Ye Shiwen does the same, she is accused of cheating.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Ah excellent, first gold for us has arrived - ladies rowing.

And a second soon after, courtesy of the Bradley Wiggins in the time trial

[Dartzap]

Yep, its been a good few weeks for Wiggins. Although one down side is that more people will now be sporting mutton chops *shudders*

[mr friendly guy]

More on the Ye Shiwen saga.

Wall Street Journal

Statistics suggest Ye's performance in the 400m medley, which first prompted these questions, wasn't unprecedented. Her time of 4:28.43 was an improvement of about 2.44% on her time from the 2011 world championships, the last major international event she swam in. But in the same pool on Sunday in a different race—the semifinals of the 100-meter breaststroke—Ruta Meilutyte, a 15-year-old Lithuanian, shaved two seconds off of her pre-Olympic personal best. That performance represented a 3.1% improvement.

Quick, better tell the fair and balanced (and FREEDOM) media. We have to throw allegations of genetic manipulation against Meilutyte next.

The raw speed of Ye's final 50-meter freestyle isn't unprecedented, either. In last year's World Championships in Shanghai, Great Britain's Rebecca Adlington swam the final 50 meters of the 800m freestyle final in 28.91 seconds, .02 second faster than Ye and 19 hundredths faster than Lochte's time from the 400m medley.

Say what? GB's Rebecca Adlington swam 50 metres faster than Ye, and Lochte. Say it ain't so Claire Balding. Now I eagerly await the BBC's Presenter to also bravely ask what " we are all thinking" and question her country's athlete's natural ability. Oh, when I say what "we are all thinking", it obviously doesn't include her guest on the show former British Olympic Mark Foster who pointed out Ye's young age may have something to do with her improvement. But I think everyone knows BBC won't apologise for the double standard. After all they had to be dragged kicking and screaming 4 years ago with Vicky Pollard yes, no, yes, no type apology to the Chinese media after the twat James Reynolds falsely accused Beijing of not reporting protests at the torch rally.

[Broomstick]

Why not? They certainly could have.

They could have. They DIDN'T. That's the point!

Maybe they should have. Maybe every athlete who medals should have to immediately submit to a test to prove they're not cheating. That way no one has to accuse anyone and we won't have this sniping at each other.

Yes, but when a Western Athlete performs above expectations, they are given the benefit of the doubt. Not so for Chinese athletes. Case in point: Ruta Meilutyte, who literally came out of nowhere to take the Gold, and no one is questioning her performance at the Olympics.

Again, maybe they should have. And western athletes certainly have been questioned in the past - it used to be routine to question the high performance of the East German female swim team. Not to mention everyone on the Tour de France for the past couple decades. Or don't those count? On the flip side, I didn't see anyone question the Chinese dive teams so clearly it's not all Chinese athletes.

I suppose we should ask the question why some sports seem to lead to more questions about cheating than others. Swimming and running have both long been hotbeds of accusation.

Do you mean "most people on this message board"? No, I don't think "most" people on this message board believe that and quite a few have been quite clear on just how far the US falls short of "greatest". Including some of the Americans. Yes, some of my fellow countrymen are idiots and I apologize for their embarrassing antics but US doesn't have a monopoly on idiocy and I'm hoping a few of them learn something by being here.

No, I mean here IN THIS COUNTRY. The USA.

You just said "here" without specifying. Next time be more clear.

Do you dispute that everyone is brainwashed from an early age to believe that America is the Greatest Country in the World? Do you dispute that saying otherwise will produce shock and outrage in the average American?

The average American stops believing in the propaganda about the time they stop believing in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. Sure, the politicians keep repeating it, but what do you expect them to say, "We suck! Vote for me!"?

No, I don't think stating otherwise is going to produce "shock and outrage" on the street. It's pretty common these days for Americans to talk about how America sucks, isn't number one, and how this or that country is doing this or that thing better than we are.

Of course he is deserving of the same presumption of innocence. So, why is it not given to non-Western athletes? When Ruta Meilutyte, who trains at Plymouth College, wins a gold medal, she is lauded as a great athlete. When Ye Shiwen does the same, she is accused of cheating.

And when Lance Armstrong won his first Tour de France he was immediately accused of cheating. You claim that Chinese athletes are somehow uniquely singled out. They aren't. Plenty of Americans have been accused of cheating. Plenty of other Westerners. Hell, quite a few have even been caught (sooner or later). Like I said, let's just simply test EVERY medal winner instead of waiting for accusations, that way all winners are treated alike.

Ruta Meilutyte is Lithuanian, not American, so much for your insistence than Americans are somehow especially favored. Well, I suppose she still counts as a western athlete, but what that has to do with your screed about American "we're number 1" chanting I don't know.

[Broomstick]

Oh, and just to show it's not JUST the Chinese: the first athlete ejected from this year's Olymics was an Albanian weightlifter, Hysen Pulaku. The Greek high jumper Dimitris Chondrokoukis was likewise booted for cheating. The Morrocan runner Mariem Alaoui Selsouli is also out, same reason, failed drug test. I uncovered a brief blurb that nine track and field athletes were likewise dropped as of the 25th of July though I haven't found all their names yet, or their nationalities.

As far as racism goes, it's hardly limited to Americans (and I'll point out once again that entire countries should not be judged by the bad behavior of single individuals). The Swiss Michel Morganella was booted for comments regarding South Koreans. And the Greek Voula Papachristou (triple jump) was apparently dropped even before the game started for comments regarding African athletes.

Basically, as previously noted, the Olympics do not live up to the ideal of good sportsmanship and clean playing. Nor is the bad behavior limited to any particular nationality.

[Simon_Jester]

No, I mean here IN THIS COUNTRY. The USA. Do you dispute that everyone is brainwashed from an early age to believe that America is the Greatest Country in the World?

Why shouldn't she? I wasn't.

Of course he is deserving of the same presumption of innocence. So, why is it not given to non-Western athletes? When Ruta Meilutyte, who trains at Plymouth College, wins a gold medal, she is lauded as a great athlete. When Ye Shiwen does the same, she is accused of cheating.

Who is accusing her? Where are these allegations coming from?

Is "everyone" doing it? Is it "the US" as you said originally, all Americans across the board, or all American athletes, or at least some body that can claim to speak for America when it comes to athletics? Or is it just some random asshole, who happens to be American, and therefore Americans are stupid and evil and horrible and hypocritical?

Or is it just certain specific paranoid lunatics?

[mr friendly guy]

Maybe they should have. Maybe every athlete who medals should have to immediately submit to a test to prove they're not cheating. That way no one has to accuse anyone and we won't have this sniping at each other.

All medal winners are automatically tested as well as two other random contestants. Now the average person most probably doesn't know this. However I expect people involved in the sports to know this, yet the accusations are still flying.

Or, they will just accuse the Chinese of making advances in doping technology with statements like - Doping, of course, has come a long way since then. You can be superhuman without looking like Superman.

Again, maybe they should have. And western athletes certainly have been questioned in the past - it used to be routine to question the high performance of the East German female swim team. Not to mention everyone on the Tour de France for the past couple decades. Or don't those count? On the flip side, I didn't see anyone question the Chinese dive teams so clearly it's not all Chinese athletes.

That may have been true a couple of decades ago, when East Germany was still a geopolitical entity. Back in the present decade, certainly the whining against some countries are quite prominent. Remember Beijing when the American gymnasts whined about the Chinese team being under age and ignoring the fact that one of their competitors fell during a crucial event, while the Chinese didn't. Remember all those awesome hackers who uncovered a conspiracy by the Chinese government to change the date of those competitor's births? It was front page stuff. Yet strangely when the dust is settled and the investigations by the sports governing body cleared them, it barely rated a mention.

America simply has a reputation for bad sportsmanship, and it seems I am not the only one here who has noted it.

Oh, and just to show it's not JUST the Chinese: the first athlete ejected from this year's Olymics was an Albanian weightlifter, Hysen Pulaku. The Greek high jumper Dimitris Chondrokoukis was likewise booted for cheating. The Morrocan runner Mariem Alaoui Selsouli is also out, same reason, failed drug test. I uncovered a brief blurb that nine track and field athletes were likewise dropped as of the 25th of July though I haven't found all their names yet, or their nationalities.

Unless those athletes were presumed guilty before the drug testing, then it really is an apples to orange comparison. The Chinese are accused without evidence, while the above examples were ejected because there was evidence of their doping.

[mr friendly guy]

Who is accusing her? Where are these allegations coming from?

Is "everyone" doing it? Is it "the US" as you said originally, all Americans across the board, or all American athletes, or at least some body that can claim to speak for America when it comes to athletics? Or is it just some random asshole, who happens to be American, and therefore Americans are stupid and evil and horrible and hypocritical?

Lets start with John Leonard, American and executive director of the World Swimming Coaches Association, who came up with the awesome line about Chinese genetic manipulation. Along with the hints of doping, but not outright saying it. The World swmming coaches Association boasts national coaches association membership with swimming power houses like Australia, Britain, Canada, USA and also has individual coaches from numerous other countries including China, as their website attests.

So its clearly an asshole making the accusations who is also an American, but not some random asshole.

Not enough. Ok lets go with Bruce Arthur, from the National Post (he is Canadian, but I don't argue double standards are confine to the US).

He came up with the line "Now, if Ye was Canadian, or American, or British, or German, we might be a little less suspicious."
linky
And before some apologist point out he was talking about the Chinese sporting system being difficult to scrutinise, (ie was he trying to explain why people suspect the Chinese more without excusing it) he then killed that attempt by comparing the Chinese "sports factory" to doping East German ones and said "Doping, of course, has come a long way since then. You can be superhuman without looking like Superman."

Or how about the reactions of the swimmers and officials
linky

In the New York Times, Jere Longman wrote that “no swimmers accused Ye … of using illicit substances to fuel her kick.” But Longman also quoted American star Natalie Coughlin calling the performance “interesting,” Australia’s Stephanie Rice terming it “insane,” and the United States’ Caitlin Leverenz saying, “The Chinese have had a history in the past of doping, so I don’t think people are crazy to point fingers, but I don’t think that’s my job to do right now.”

The quotes from these coaches and athletes—and the articles and television broadcasts that dutifully collect them—all play the game of pretending to be fair and even-handed. Ye’s feat is interesting, not illegitimate. It’s not crazy if other people want to point fingers, but that’s not what I’m doing.
“Some high-ranked swimming officials, experts, have questioned [her performance], pointing to a history of positive drug tests by Chinese swimmers,” Dan Hicks said before NBC’s broadcast of Tuesday’s 200 IM. “That is all pure speculation at this point.” Hicks and Rowdy Gaines continued to engage in that pure speculation after the race began. “I don't think in this day and age it should be a big surprise, Dan, that people will be suspicious,” Gaines said as the field passed the 50-meter mark—we’re not suspicious, but you know how people are.

Ah, some people would be suspicious, but not me, no sirree. Whistles innocently.

Not enough examples. Lets add BBC presenter Clare Balding to the mix.
linky

She asked how many questions will be asked about the performance. That in and of itself is nudging the line of accusation, but the fact that she doesn't apply the same standards is telling. Either they are ignorant or its a double standard. In the earlier article from the WSJ I linked to, it showed Great Britain's Rebecca Adlington (in 2011) swam the final 50 meters of the 800m freestyle final faster than Ye's freestyle which was faster than Lochte. So lets apply the same standards. Oops, this is BBC we are talking about.

Or is it just certain specific paranoid lunatics?

If they accuse every winner, I might label them excessively cynical or paranoid. If however only certain opponents, especially the Chinese are targeted, thats a totally different story.

[Broomstick]

Remember Beijing when the American gymnasts whined about the Chinese team being under age and ignoring the fact that one of their competitors fell during a crucial event, while the Chinese didn't. Remember all those awesome hackers who uncovered a conspiracy by the Chinese government to change the date of those competitor's births? It was front page stuff. Yet strangely when the dust is settled and the investigations by the sports governing body cleared them, it barely rated a mention.

Yep, I actually do remember that. I also remember something about the Chinese counting ages differently which I didn't quite follow and didn't understand, if it even exists. I also remember thinking it was a bit like the bru-ha-ha over Obama's birth certificate and possibly sore losers looking for an out. Aside from a few loudmouths, though, the rest of us trusted the Olympic authorities to sort everything out and they did. Which is how most of us, including most Americans, view accusations of doping: OK, let's test the athlete and go by that. Look at test results. Move on. No shouting required.

America simply has a reputation for bad sportsmanship, and it seems I am not the only one here who has noted it.

Well, it looks like China, Indonesia, and South Korea are gunning for the same rep in woman's badminton, deliberating throwing games - or such is the accusation. Or is that more sour grapes on the part of the west?

(If anyone cares - if they didn't break an explicit rule then I don't think they should be tossed for using a strategy of, essentially, choosing which battles to give their all and which to save energy on. I agree it violates the spirit of the games (if that has any meaning any more) but it didn't break the rules as given. Don't like that? Change the rules so going forward no one can use that tactic.)

Unless those athletes were presumed guilty before the drug testing, then it really is an apples to orange comparison. The Chinese are accused without evidence, while the above examples were ejected because there was evidence of their doping.

Actually, I don't know if all of those named athletes were caught on routine testing or because someone requested it. And apparently we do test all medal winners, so testing Ye was routine and not because some disappointed coach demanded it.

The thing is, some disappointed coach makes accusations and suddenly it's RAR HE'S A RACIST ALL AMERICANS ARE RACIST!!! when no one said that about a Swiss or Greek athlete making racist remarks. No... they're just random racists, it's not proof ALL Swiss or Greeks are racists. The US swim coach is an asshole because he's an asshole and a bad loser, not because he's an American.

I will concede Americans tend to be bad losers. It's because of our winner-take-all-devil-take-the-hindmost society. There's currently a US commercial for a sitcom where an Olympic winner is accused by a group of being a loser because only one of her four medals is gold - it's done as comedy, but it's also a point about our culture. It's not pretty, but anything less than number 1 is seen as abject failure by some Americans. To them, coming in second is as bad as coming in last. It's not pretty, and it's nothing to be proud of, but that is more where such comments and accusations are coming from rather than racism. I'll also add it's far a from universal attitude among Americans - after all, the worst athlete on the Olympic team is still better than 99% of the rest of us. It's also why the US media is so obsessive about the medal count, if you were wondering - there really are people who judge whether or not the US is doing OK but that standard, by the idea that if we don't have the most medals or the most gold we suck, and they don't mean that in a joking or mild way but on a deep and rather sick level. However, even most people who believe in that manner also know how to behave when losing, including not throwing a tantrum on the world stage. That's why American athletics is also pretty adamant about shaking the hands of the other team even if they've kicked your ass and you're mad as hell - there's a correct way to behave even when losing.

I do find it odd that this year the US broadcast is showing so few medal ceremonies. The only one I've seen (and I've been sick this week so I've been spending all too much time watching this stuff) is the one for the women's rowing competition where the Brits won the gold. (Sorry, UK, but when I hear your anthem I keep hearing "My Country Tis of Thee" rather than "God Save the Queen" - no doubt the lingering effects of the propaganda fed to me as a child. At least your anthem can be sung by the average human being!). Really, this is highly anomalous because it's missing out on an opportunity to wave the flag. WTF? But I digress...

[mr friendly guy]

Well, it looks like China, Indonesia, and South Korea are gunning for the same rep in woman's badminton, deliberating throwing games - or such is the accusation. Or is that more sour grapes on the part of the west?

(If anyone cares - if they didn't break an explicit rule then I don't think they should be tossed for using a strategy of, essentially, choosing which battles to give their all and which to save energy on. I agree it violates the spirit of the games (if that has any meaning any more) but it didn't break the rules as given. Don't like that? Change the rules so going forward no one can use that tactic.)

I am going to hazard a guess though, that when the Chinese team lost they weren't going to accuse the South Korean team of cheating, for very obvious reasons. The bad sportsmanship of the US attacks the winners. My personal view is that attacking an opponent for winning is worse than simply throwing a match, because the former involves harming someone else's reputation, whereas the latter only does it to yourself. One can ruin one's own reputation, but it crosses the line when you attempt to do it to the other side.

Actually, I don't know if all of those named athletes were caught on routine testing or because someone requested it. And apparently we do test all medal winners, so testing Ye was routine and not because some disappointed coach demanded it.

The thing is, some disappointed coach makes accusations and suddenly it's RAR HE'S A RACIST ALL AMERICANS ARE RACIST!!! when no one said that about a Swiss or Greek athlete making racist remarks. No... they're just random racists, it's not proof ALL Swiss or Greeks are racists. The US swim coach is an asshole because he's an asshole and a bad loser, not because he's an American.

Its certainly bad sportsmanship. When its applied selectively though, its perfectly understandable to suspect racism, although I put it more in the category of double standards for the moment. Now John Leonard does have a history of criticising Chinese swimming so the sinophobe accusation isn't without basis.

Of course being a bad sport is not just confined to the Americans, but the Americans love making a spectacle of themselves.

I will concede Americans tend to be bad losers. It's because of our winner-take-all-devil-take-the-hindmost society. There's currently a US commercial for a sitcom where an Olympic winner is accused by a group of being a loser because only one of her four medals is gold - it's done as comedy, but it's also a point about our culture. It's not pretty, but anything less than number 1 is seen as abject failure by some Americans. To them, coming in second is as bad as coming in last. It's not pretty, and it's nothing to be proud of, but that is more where such comments and accusations are coming from rather than racism. I'll also add it's far a from universal attitude among Americans - after all, the worst athlete on the Olympic team is still better than 99% of the rest of us. It's also why the US media is so obsessive about the medal count, if you were wondering - there really are people who judge whether or not the US is doing OK but that standard, by the idea that if we don't have the most medals or the most gold we suck, and they don't mean that in a joking or mild way but on a deep and rather sick level. However, even most people who believe in that manner also know how to behave when losing, including not throwing a tantrum on the world stage. That's why American athletics is also pretty adamant about shaking the hands of the other team even if they've kicked your ass and you're mad as hell - there's a correct way to behave even when losing.

Athletes can push themselves hard, can believe they are a "failure" for not winning gold etc. Thats their belief and doesn't harm anyone but themselves. I however object to it when they start behaving badly - usually accusing the other side of cheating, refusing to attend medal ceremonies etc. Its just a pathetic attempt to ruin the winner's moment of triumph.

Just for the record, my take on American bad sportsmanship isn't just confine to recent Chinese examples. Just off the top of my head I remember the "darling" of the US team Janet Evans criticising Ireland's Michelle Smith for winning gold and allegations of drug taking in the 1996 games. To this day she still keeps her gold medals and the banned substance she took was years later, and wasn't even a banned substance until after the 1996 Olympic games. Also note John Leonard compared Ye to Michelle Smith even though Smith still keeps her gold medals.

I could also go on about the women's long distance running, of which the world record in the 10 000 metres is still held by Wang Junxia. At that time a retired American long distance runner "wept for her sport" (sure you did honey) because the Chinese were supposedly using drugs. Well guess what, no drugs.

[Col. Crackpot]

The aformentioned declining power supposedly manipulating the apperance of its performance to its people has just tied the chinese in gold medals and surpassed them in total medals. Just an FYI...

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Can't believe we lost the basketball to Spain by one point- we conceded far too many fouls

[FaxModem1]

I don't really follow much about the Olympics, but is this par for the course?

Warning: Potentially NSFW

http://imgur.com/a/emAVG

[Tsyroc]

Just for the record, my take on American bad sportsmanship isn't just confine to recent Chinese examples. Just off the top of my head I remember the "darling" of the US team Janet Evans criticising Ireland's Michelle Smith for winning gold and allegations of drug taking in the 1996 games. To this day she still keeps her gold medals and the banned substance she took was years later, and wasn't even a banned substance until after the 1996 Olympic games. Also note John Leonard compared Ye to Michelle Smith even though Smith still keeps her gold medals.

This example is the one that particularly soured me on the Olympics and especially on NBC's coverage of the Olympics. Michelle Smith had just won Olympic gold and NBC reporter Jim Grey sticks a microphone in her face and asks her about performance enhancing drugs with the basis being that her husband, a shot putter, had been caught for using steroids or something. I know we aren't always the classiest but damn, we seriously could use some refreshers in sportsmanship or something. It's also not hard hitting journalism because you ask dick questions at fucked up times.

As for people mentioning the gold or nothing stuff. I remember seeing a comedy (I think) bit where a coach was going all drill instructor on an athlete and how a silver medal means that the person is first loser.

[fgalkin]

I don't really follow much about the Olympics, but is this par for the course?

Warning: Potentially NSFW

http://imgur.com/a/emAVG

How do you think gymnasts are trained?

Here's how they do it in Australia.

Muscles currently trains for 8hrs each week for gymnastics. I know that sounds like a lot at 7 years old….But she really, really does love it. She is in The National Gymnastics Program Level 2.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin