Comment thread for Anarcho-Libertarian Coliseum debate

[Zixinus]

Volly, have you heard of various HD recovery companies? I heard they can work wonders.

[Kodiak]

or even HD recovery software. Get a copy of ghost or something similar. Unless you physically destroyed the drive, it should be fine.

[K. A. Pital]

I'm with Gil still. Volly looks just too much like a plant, and the fact that he "lost" his reply accidentally... I'm also pretty sure he's real, i.e. he's a real person who was, or is, an anarchist still - but he is being used in a prank with his own consent.

[Ghost Rider]

Then the Mess would understand the consequences.

Last year's threats made by the admins were not a joke. It won't be tolerated.

[Darth Wong]

I'm still calling shenanigans on it. I'm also noting alot of the mess AND Volly now are sporting the date 1-4-08 in their avatar.

I would be child's play for Volly to copy that avatar and put it on his own profile. If it were the Mess playing another practical joke, why would they advertise it so, particularly when I've already made my attitude toward the idea obvious?

[wjs7744]

Maybe the joke is to convince Volleyball to adopt the av and sig to confuse us, and then the reveal is that he is real after all? The av/sig changes were within one week, IIRC. It would be a pretty lame joke, but I wasn't here last year so I don't know what level of standards you guys are up to.

[Gil Hamilton]

I would be child's play for Volly to copy that avatar and put it on his own profile. If it were the Mess playing another practical joke, why would they advertise it so, particularly when I've already made my attitude toward the idea obvious?

Of course it would be, but at the same time, why would he? Isn't his own shtick, as Enforcer Talen pointed out, that the government -including the military industrial complex- is evil evil EVIL? Why would he go out of his way to emulate the WarWolves when if he could work his will the military wouldn't exist at all?

I'm just making an argument here. We have three explanations which could be true:

1) Volleyball is legit and that fact that he's been beating one topic in a rediculous manner is him. The for some reason, he's decided to copy both WarWolves items which refer directly to April Fool's Day for his own bizarre reasons, which run counter to his own arguments.

2) Volleyball is a plant by the Mess as part of a prank, which the Mess has an established history of doing. The fact that they've been putting up all the stuff referring to April first in their sigs is a way of sweetening the joke, because they could laugh and point to them if they fooled anyone in that they gave fair warning but no one made the connection as a way of damping the fracas that happened last year.

3) The Mess is exploiting Volley by encouraging him to use that stuff when they don't really have a prank. The prank is people making the connection and accusing them of being up to no good and raising a ruckus. In other words, an exercise in phenomenology. Generation of a prank ex nihilo.

Frankly, option 2 and 3 sound a whole lot more likely in 1, because 1 has the extra and somewhat unlikely term that Volly would have to spontaneously want to emulate the Mess for no stated reason. 2 and 3 don't have any such problem and would be in character.

[brianeyci]

4) He's a troll and has been trolling the board, independently of The Mess. He's getting his ass kicked by Surlethe, and doesn't know what the fuck to do. He wants to continue stirring up as much shit as possible. He reads about the April Fool's prank from last year, and decides that would stir up a lot of shit. Just like someone from Troll Kingdom, etc., if you're gonna lose the best strategy is to stand up at the end and say you didn't mean any of it at all, that you were doing it for shits and giggles, and the other side was taking it too seriously. Putting a banner in his sig, then claiming it at the end an April Fool's prank completes two goals: allowing him an "out" by claiming it was "all a joke" and also lets him stir up the most shit possible by pointing fingers at someone else. The banner is easily explained: the Mess has something else planned for 4/1/8 and Volly just copied it.

Nothing Volly says should be taken at face value, including pointing fingers at the Mess or anybody else.

[Gil Hamilton]

That's actually number 1 option on my list, Brian.

[Darth Wong]

The problem I have with the "he's a troll" argument is that he's doing such a pitch-perfect job of emulating one of these anarchist types. It's not as if I haven't run into people like this before, in other venues. If he's just emulating one for kicks, he's surprisingly disciplined about it. Why is it so inconceivable that he might sincerely think he's right, and he's floundering in the debate now because he's going on-on-one and has no room to squirm away from answering points, which is why he's taking so long to respond?

[Mr Bean]

.

Frankly, option 2 and 3 sound a whole lot more likely in 1, because 1 has the extra and somewhat unlikely term that Volly would have to spontaneously want to emulate the Mess for no stated reason. 2 and 3 don't have any such problem and would be in character.

You know the best part?
I could confirm or deny any one of your three scenario's Gil Hamilton, and I can guarantee you that half the people would disbelieve me.

Hell I can prove that right now
I, Mr Bean, senior member of the Mess hereby state that the Mess prank this year is a fake debater, further I state that the fake debater is in fact being written by the Mess and Surlethe who has agreed to help us in our hijinks this year, as it's was very hard to get any of our initial ideas off the ground as everyone disbelieved everything we were doing for this entire month, thus we had to go outside the Mess to find someone who could both write and debate the persona we created.

Surlethe was that man, and once the one on one debate idea came down the line(From another insurgent of ours) we stuffed the ballet in the Senate thread, as you might note there are six members of the Mess in the Senate, enough to ensure him highly likely to be able to debate himself.

That's the entire plan in a nutshell, and despite me spelling the whole thing out I say now, not a single person will believe me. That is the blessing and the curse of a reputation like ours.

[CaptainChewbacca]

...What?

[Mr Bean]

...What?

See?

[Frank Hipper]

.

Frankly, option 2 and 3 sound a whole lot more likely in 1, because 1 has the extra and somewhat unlikely term that Volly would have to spontaneously want to emulate the Mess for no stated reason. 2 and 3 don't have any such problem and would be in character.

You know the best part?
I could confirm or deny any one of your three scenario's Gil Hamilton, and I can guarantee you that half the people would disbelieve me.

Hell I can prove that right now
I, Mr Bean, senior member of the Mess hereby state that the Mess prank this year is a fake debater, further I state that the fake debater is in fact being written by the Mess and Surlethe who has agreed to help us in our hijinks this year, as it's was very hard to get any of our initial ideas off the ground as everyone disbelieved everything we were doing for this entire month, thus we had to go outside the Mess to find someone who could both write and debate the persona we created.

Surlethe was that man, and once the one on one debate idea came down the line(From another insurgent of ours) we stuffed the ballet in the Senate thread, as you might note there are six members of the Mess in the Senate, enough to ensure him highly likely to be able to debate himself.

That's the entire plan in a nutshell, and despite me spelling the whole thing out I say now, not a single person will believe me. That is the blessing and the curse of a reputation like ours.

No, wait, let's edit that:

[Gil Hamilton]

...What?

See?

The problem is your story is functionally inaccurate. If you look at the thread, at least one of the mess members abstained, which is deuce odd behavior if you were stuffing the box.

However, usually when someone calls shenanigans on a prank, it is customary to come clean on it. After all, if you deny it and then go through with the prank anyway, that's kind of lame.

[Mr Bean]

...What?

See?

The problem is your story is functionally inaccurate. If you look at the thread, at least one of the mess members abstained, which is deuce odd behavior if you were stuffing the box.

However, usually when someone calls shenanigans on a prank, it is customary to come clean on it. After all, if you deny it and then go through with the prank anyway, that's kind of lame.

Did he really abstain? Do you have a record of the voting sir or was that simply mis-direction in the lead up. After all it could spoil our plans if we all seen to be touting him togther.

And second, Shenanigans? Do you mean that you don't believe it's B or C but A?

[Gil Hamilton]

Did he really abstain? Do you have a record of the voting sir or was that simply mis-direction in the lead up. After all it could spoil our plans if we all seen to be touting him togther.

You know full well he really did abstain, Mr. Bean. After all, it wouldn't be noticeable either way if you all HAD voted for Surlethe. He's an excellent choice and no one would have thought twice. You're just bullshitting now.

And yes, I am calling you on Volly. Come on, this is SD.net, if he was the real deal and copied your logos and banners for his own reasons, you guys would have been all over him for doing it. He's your guy.

[Master of Cards]

I state from sources that the prank is not only Volly, but there is other things going on about a drive by of Nits and Tev house.

[Frank Hipper]

I state from sources that the prank is not only Volly, but there is other things going on about a drive by of Nits and Tev house.

Was that supposed to be cute, or funny?

It was neither.

Thread locked pending any postings by Voluntaryist in the Coliseum.

[Frank Hipper]

He's posted, and the Peanut Gallery may have at him, then...if you can tolerate the arbitrary definitions and self contradictions any better than I could, that is.

[K. A. Pital]

...the continuous exercise of a priori authority over

Volly wants to add a wrong definition. Because without that his argument falls apart. If the government arises due to social contract, there is no "a priori" authority.

[Lusankya]

...the continuous exercise of a priori authority over

Volly wants to add a wrong definition. Because without that his argument falls apart. If the government arises due to social contract, there is no "a priori" authority.

My guess is that because we're all born into societies with government, we have no option but to submit to the government's authority and any social contract is invalid because it's made under duress or something. (Well, I bet that's what Volly would say, anyway.)

Oh, and we don't owe the government anything, depsite the existence of public maternity wards, vaccinations and schools.

[K. A. Pital]

My guess is that because we're all born into societies with government, we have no option but to submit to the government's authority

That is wrong too. I already told Volly that the government does not "own" him and he can emigrate to his favoured anarchy any time he likes.

[Lusankya]

My guess is that because we're all born into societies with government, we have no option but to submit to the government's authority

That is wrong too. I already told Volly that the government does not "own" him and he can emigrate to his favoured anarchy any time he likes.

But those are all bad anarchies that don't work because they used to have government! He can't move to them, because they don't work within a proper voluntaryist framework.

[K. A. Pital]

That's irrelevant to the point that the government doesn't own him and has no apriori authority The fact that he doesn't like all other places is just too fucking bad for him. The competition between social structures failed to produce his favored one, so I guess he'd have to live with it.