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In my experience, Canada has an a pretty interesting sense of national pride... we pretty much define ourselves as not being American. Seriously, fear of becoming the 51st state is pretty much what holds the country together, as no province really wants to leave lest they risk an American take-over (even Alberta, although they threaten to do so from time to time when things don't go their way). This goes all the way back to the American Revolution (where Canada was welcomed to join the USA in the Articles of Confederation but decided to remain loyal) so it's not exactly a new phenomenon.

Tribble wrote:In my experience, Canada has an a pretty interesting sense of national pride... we pretty much define ourselves as not being American. Seriously, fear of becoming the 51st state is pretty much what holds the country together, as no province really wants to leave lest they risk an American take-over (even Alberta, although they threaten to do so from time to time when things don't go their way). This goes all the way back to the American Revolution (where Canada was welcomed to join the USA in the Articles of Confederation but decided to remain loyal) so it's not exactly a new phenomenon.

That invitation came from the barrel of a gun on more than one occasion.

Raw Shark wrote:You are thinking irrationally from a depressed place. You can be whatever good that you can be. Which is more than nothing until you become evil or die.

Sorry, I'm more clear-headed for now. My emotions roller-coaster sometimes even though I'm taking meds.

I am a very proud Australian.

Unfortunately, that also means I am a deeply, deeply disgusted and ashamed Australian when I see the sort of shit bigots and politicians are pulling. Locking asylum seekers in concentration camps to be tortured, raped, and deported is nothing less than a complete betrayal of what Australia should be.

I suppose I'm proud of what Australia could be - not of what it actually is.

loomer wrote:I am a very proud Australian.

Unfortunately, that also means I am a deeply, deeply disgusted and ashamed Australian when I see the sort of shit bigots and politicians are pulling. Locking asylum seekers in concentration camps to be tortured, raped, and deported is nothing less than a complete betrayal of what Australia should be.

I suppose I'm proud of what Australia could be - not of what it actually is.

That would be the good sort of nationalism, the idea that you should fix the problems rather than blindly follow. it fits the classic quote from Carl Schurz,"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

TheFeniX wrote:If I had to sum up my experience with Texans, it would be "Texan first, American Second." Shit, the damned "Ford is the best in Texas" jingle cannot be thought without that stupid song playing in my head. In school, Texas was best because we lasted a few years as our own Republic. Texas, Texas, Texas, fucking Texas.

So was California! Although ours was a matter of weeks, not years. Still not sure that joining the US was the wisest decision our forebears ever made...

I have a great deal of affection for the United States, and of the West and Cali in particular. Warts and all. I look at California and I see what the US could, and likely will, become in the far-off future. What I see so far pleases me greatly.

Adam Reynolds wrote:

loomer wrote:I am a very proud Australian.

Unfortunately, that also means I am a deeply, deeply disgusted and ashamed Australian when I see the sort of shit bigots and politicians are pulling. Locking asylum seekers in concentration camps to be tortured, raped, and deported is nothing less than a complete betrayal of what Australia should be.

I suppose I'm proud of what Australia could be - not of what it actually is.

That would be the good sort of nationalism, the idea that you should fix the problems rather than blindly follow. it fits the classic quote from Carl Schurz,"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

I'm surprised I hadn't stumbled on that quote by now. It definitely fits and I've written it on a post-it on my mirror to remind myself.

maraxus2 wrote:

TheFeniX wrote:If I had to sum up my experience with Texans, it would be "Texan first, American Second." Shit, the damned "Ford is the best in Texas" jingle cannot be thought without that stupid song playing in my head. In school, Texas was best because we lasted a few years as our own Republic. Texas, Texas, Texas, fucking Texas.

So was California! Although ours was a matter of weeks, not years. Still not sure that joining the US was the wisest decision our forebears ever made...

I have a great deal of affection for the United States, and of the West and Cali in particular. Warts and all. I look at California and I see what the US could, and likely will, become in the far-off future. What I see so far pleases me greatly.

Without joining the Union, California would be a shit hole like Mexico and most former Spanish colonies in the Americas. Having lived on a numberof locations on both coasts, California is no better than any other place in the US. There are a ton of entitled assholes out here, many of whom are supposedly the most socially enlightened.

I live in Belfast where the plebs can't even agree what the country is called and who pays for us.

Uh, ever heard that song from Toby Keith that goes, "I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know i'm free. And i'll gladly stand up, and defend her still today, 'cause there ain't no doubt I love this land. GOD BLESS THE USA!"
James Staley
Proud American

JamesStaley wrote:Uh, ever heard that song from Toby Keith that goes, "I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know i'm free. And i'll gladly stand up, and defend her still today, 'cause there ain't no doubt I love this land. GOD BLESS THE USA!"

That song pre-dates Keith and was written by Lee Greenwood. And as much as I like Keith as a singer, not so much a person, the Greenwood version is just better.

Also, it wasn't sung as a backdrop to bullshit like the Patriot act.

Plus, you know, it's pure propaganda. Cite me QoL statistics, government transparency and corruption figures, poverty levels, etc; then we'll talk.

Esquire wrote:Plus, you know, it's pure propaganda. Cite me QoL statistics, government transparency and corruption figures, poverty levels, etc; then we'll talk.

I'm going off what I remember from a few dust-ups on the Interwebs in early 2000s, but I don't recall Greenwood having any ulterior motive other than "I love this country" for writing Proud to be an American. A Canadian member even pointed out there's a Canadian version of the song, but I don't know anything about that. It's definitely been used for propaganda, but so have songs taking a jab at their country such as "Born in the USA." It's like people don't even listen to what they're listening to. These types would think "Freedom isn't Free" or "AMERICA! Fuck YEA" are the songs of true patriots.

As for propaganda: Are national anthems bad, in of themselves?

Either way, I don't mind the propaganda itself so much but more how the American country music business itself turned into a propaganda machine after 9/11. A couple of the tunes are pretty fucking catchy, but I feel like a douche for enjoying some as much as I do.

But I don't buy that "Proud to be an American" is a propaganda song. It's just some dude singing about how much he loves this shit-hole... even Detroit, which I guess being proud of Detroit was a thing at the time.

TheFeniX wrote:Are national anthems bad, in of themselves?

No, but "The Star-Spangled Banner?!" For fuck's sake, is it any wonder Scotty Hamilton cried when he heard the tune of some shitty English drinking song?! And, the lyrics are even worse.

I mean, we could have gone with "America the Beautiful," "My Country, Tis O' Thee," or, my personal favorite, the late, great John Phillip Souza's "Stars And Stripes Forever."

There's a rousing song, makes you want to be proud of your country, not pay your respects to it, as you lower it into the ground, like the aforementioned "Star-Spangled Banner."

So fucking what if there are no lyrics to it?! A) Does anyone even know the lyrics to the "Star-Spangled Dirge?" b)There are plenty of national anthems with no lyrics at all, and most of the time only the music's played anyway. and c)Do you really want something Roseanne Barr/Arnold/Barr/Buggered If I Know can butcher at a Rockies game?

U.P. Cinnabar wrote:c)Do you really want something Roseanne Barr/Arnold/Barr/Buggered If I Know can butcher at a Rockies game?

Media blitzes about how some washed up celebrity butchered the national anthem is the life-blood of this country.

Still, Canadians already scored the best anthem of all time.

TheFeniX wrote:

U.P. Cinnabar wrote:c)Do you really want something Roseanne Barr/Arnold/Barr/Buggered If I Know can butcher at a Rockies game?

Media blitzes about how some washed up celebrity butchered the national anthem is the life-blood of this country.

I suppose you have a point there.

Still, Canadians already scored the best anthem of all time.

What? Not this one?

TheFeniX wrote:<snip>

This is my fault; I just meant that the song isn't meant to be a logical argument for American superiority, it's just, as you say, some guy singing about how he loves his home. I didn't mean to suggest that it was written as deliberate manipulative persuasion.

JamesStaley wrote:Uh, ever heard that song from Toby Keith that goes, "I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know i'm free. And i'll gladly stand up, and defend her still today, 'cause there ain't no doubt I love this land. GOD BLESS THE USA!"
James Staley
Proud American

If somebody actually has the nerve to invade the first nuclear-armed power on its own soil, I'll be there with my rifle, my winter camo, and the abilities of an Eagle Scout killing every hostile motherfucker I see like Simo Häyhä. Until that point, I'd like to see an end to the aggression, Bible-smoking, and maybe a little bit of the arrogance on our side.

JamesStaley wrote:Uh, ever heard that song from Toby Keith that goes, "I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know i'm free. And i'll gladly stand up, and defend her still today, 'cause there ain't no doubt I love this land. GOD BLESS THE USA!"
James Staley
Proud American

Except that song is sung by Lee Greenwood, and is not as insulting to the ears and intellect as that swaggering, jingoistic, dick-waving shitfest that is that damned "Red, White, and Blue" song, which was written and performed by Toby Queef.

There's loving your country, and then there's being a mindless prick about loving your country.

Raw Shark wrote:If somebody actually has the nerve to invade the first nuclear-armed power on its own soil, I'll be there with my rifle, my winter camo, and the abilities of an Eagle Scout killing every hostile motherfucker I see like Simo Häyhä.

Agreed, though, right now, our worst enemies are all domestic. And look a lot like us.

Until that point, I'd like to see an end to the aggression, Bible-smoking, and maybe a little bit of the arrogance on our side.

Amen to that. To the xenophobia which is as American as apple pie, as well.