SD.net gets its own island empire (RAR!)

OT: anything goes!

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CmdrWilkens
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Post by CmdrWilkens »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: It's basically propaganda to keep Europe from seeing us as the next Pagan menace to try and annihilate. Remember that the whole of Europe is still Catholic in this period, and our knowledge is likely to prevent the reformation from happening, as the Catholic Church will be able to institute reforms before Luther is even an adult. Saving Byzantium and checking Turkish ambitions basically implies that we're fighting for the interests of Christendom at a time when we need all the positive publicity that we can get.
Helping Constantinople at this time isn't all that likely to get us near the help we require as we are only two hundred years removed from Catholic's sacking the city and the Byzantine's fighting to reclaim it. The Papacy may see the Turks as a threat but they would continuously focus on the jockeying within the Holy Roman Empire and between them and France at the expense of Hungary in the early 1500s. So basically fighting the Turks isn't going to win us all that many Catholic praises or certianly not enough to throw off the label of pagans. By the same note even if we begin truly interfering in European affaris I find it unlikely that we will alter the balance of power enough that the Papcy will seek to actively reform UNLESS we've already been inconfrontation with them and have forced our choice for Pontiff onto the seat. The reformation is going to go forward the only question is whether intervention by us suppressing the Turkish threat will stop the wider adoption of Lutheranism as Charles will have no need no unite the factions at court to oppose the Turks in Vienna.
Also, it gives us a chance to control the Mediterranean, which is less of a threat to us in terms of land attacks than our good friend Simplicus suggests. Ultimately by taking on and defeating both Venice and Genoa economically (and by extension, militarily), we can become the dominant trading power of the period--remember, Venice and Genoa together probably don't have a population much larger than our's in their core territories. And we can take Corsica, Cyprus, Crete, the Greek islands of the Adriatic and Aegean and so on, and secure the vassalage of the Duchy of Athens. All of these positions are quite defensible with trace italienne fortification, and the native populations can provide their own manpower, along with the investment in other minor islands of the area. By virtue of an alliance with Karaman and Hungary we can perhaps cause the Ottomans enough trouble to lead them to significant territorial losses. We'll also be able to gain the Genoese trading towns along the Black Sea, and in doing so control one of the main commercial regions of Europe, while at the same time essentially replacing the Venetians as the prime movers of European finance.
True enough, if we can establish ourselves as the preeminent merchants, sailors, and bankers of the Mediterranean our coffers will be full enough to carry an army much larger than our core population would support. The problem remains that even if we oppose the Turks moving into traditional Venetian and Geonese spheres of influence means that we will not be on guest list for parties at the Vatican and with the Turks no longer a threat and division at home to quell with a good war abroad Charles may turn on us. We could certainly pull off a win with better logistics and technology but getting into that kind of a war expends resources which we don't have and all the while France , britain, and the Netherlands will be moving into the same spheres of influence they were already moving towards while we, despite havin ghe technological edge, will not have the resources or popualtion to commit to the competition. We could only hope that they would seek to engage us direclty while we still hold naval superiority.
One clever thing we can do in exchange for also helping Castile against Grenada is to gain control of Gibraltar and corresponding sites along the north short of Africa which are highly defensible, securing our control of passage into the Mediterranean.

With that kind of wealth we can easily hire the mercenaries to undertake a serious effort at the conquest of the New World, and possibly even spread to securing Ireland and Iceland and other western European outposts under our direction and rule. We can secure further population resouces, beyond the Jews of Europe and people in the occupied zones, through open immigration, by trading firearms and technology with the great African kingdoms of the period like the Kongo in exchange for more or less forced settlers--we buy the people, ship them across the Atlantic (in humane conditions), and then free them with their own farms waiting for them. In this way we can both guarantee that Africa develops several powerful native states, and secure an influx in population in the Americas.
Again the key here is ensuring that we don't upset the continental balance of power by establishing ourselves as rivals to those who control the papacy. Honestly a quick campaign of conquest in the papal states might be neccessarry to keep the pope in check and ensure Rome doesn't get any crazy ideas about declaring us heathens whom murdering is not a sin for a Christian.
I suggest that if we do try to colonize the Americas we set a limit at an area bounded by the Hudson river and the Delaware river in the west, along with Chesapeake bay and therefore inclusive of the Delmarva peninsula, with lake Champlain forming the rest of the boundary, and then following the St. Laurence on the northwest to the ocean, with the coast of Laborador, all the islands of the mouth of the St. Laurence, such as Anticosti, Prince Edward, and, of course, Newfoundland, being included. That would secure for us huge tracts of timber and extensive highly profitable reserves of minerals, while setting firm boundaries to our expansion at the expense of the Native Americans. Florida could also be settled as part of the colonization of the Caribbean, and the offshore islands, of course, could have trading posts established on other areas of the coast.

Also I do in fact think the industrial revolution will happen 200 years earlier here--I'm just saying none of us will live to see it, most likely, as it will start in its earliest about 80 years after we arrive, a work for the grand old age of our children, but not us. We will be having a golden age to rival the Dutch instead.

And one interesting possibility is securing many small and uninhabited, or lightly inhabited islands, throughout the world, for the purpose of creating vast chains of secure communication for our fleets, and also trade. An impressive possibility here is that we could lure Ming China out of their recently imposed self-isolation, gain a return to the treasure fleets, and start an immense and profitable trade with them.
I think I'd rather move that way first, if we secure passage around Cape Horn and Cape of Good Hope (the later more critically) we can open trade with China and India well ahead of the rest of Europe securing us the rather lucrative trade rewards without stepping on near as many toes. Moreover following the British example in India could certainly secure us an amazing population base from whcih to expand control in SE Asia and Oceania while strong commercial ties in Africa would preven the rise of the racial slave trade (and thankfull forestall that huge bag of problems) plus give us a populaiton base to exploit the resource base in North and South America. Again I prefer this route as we have no competitors who are likely to move towards being technologically in our leauge within the next century and a half so we have at least that long to establish a firm a hybrid modern-colonial society that could with luck withstand the test of time and give us the net result of the British Empire only wihtout as much resentment and over a much greater portion of the globe.
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Post by lord Martiya »

I quote Wilkens.

BTW, if we chose to expand our influence in Mediterranean Sea and Europe, I suggest an alliance with Muslim countries: they were more open-minded than Catholics, and the Byzantine Empire, our only possible allie in the Christian countries, is almost dead (Costantinople falled in 1453 and the Byzantine Empire was conquered by Turkey). But why expand in direction of Europe? We could occupy the African power vacuum after the collapse of Bantu Empire (in this period) and Mali Empire (in civil war), and ally us with the powerful Kingdom of Kongo. And this ally is very useful: European armies of the period used a lot of cavalry yet, and the immense army of Kongolese archers were a terrible threat both for cavalry and the massed infantry phalanx that was supplanting the cavalry.
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