Top Gear: Series 15

[ShadowDragon8685]

I doubt they'd actually pull the show outright, but I could see at the extreme end maybe replacing one or two or three of the trio, depending on who the Church of Happyology is pissed-off at, or at least forcing them to make an apology and pulling that episode from re-runs or something like that.

[Bounty]

Please stop shooting your mouth off if you have no clue what you're talking about.

Anyway

Hammond vs snowmobiles: cool
May in a Bugatti showing the Shelby people how to make a fast car: very cool
Cruise and Diaz: a bit too backslappy, but you can't argue with Tom Cruise posting the fastest lap while not ecven using all of the wheels

And I really liked the Senna tribute. Hamilton practically jumping up and down at the thought of driving Senna's car was wonderful.

[Mr. Coffee]

May in a Bugatti showing the Shelby people how to make a fast car: very cool

To bad for Bugatti the Shelby Supercars guys redid the Ultimate Aero. New model cranks out 15% more horsepower in a car that's aerodynamically slicker than the Veyron at half the weight (and a 1/4 the cost). Watch for them to one up Bugatti (again) sometime in the coming months.

[Bounty]

May in a Bugatti showing the Shelby people how to make a fast car: very cool

To bad for Bugatti the Shelby Supercars guys redid the Ultimate Aero. New model cranks out 15% more horsepower in a car that's aerodynamically slicker than the Veyron at half the weight (and a 1/4 the cost). Watch for them to one up Bugatti (again) sometime in the coming months.

Hehe, wouldn't have expected anything else There's an article about May's run in the magazine version of TG, it talked about how this is turning into a dickwaving contest on both sides.

[Mr. Coffee]

May in a Bugatti showing the Shelby people how to make a fast car: very cool

To bad for Bugatti the Shelby Supercars guys redid the Ultimate Aero. New model cranks out 15% more horsepower in a car that's aerodynamically slicker than the Veyron at half the weight (and a 1/4 the cost). Watch for them to one up Bugatti (again) sometime in the coming months.

Hehe, wouldn't have expected anything else There's an article about May's run in the magazine version of TG, it talked about how this is turning into a dickwaving contest on both sides.

It really reminds me of the old Superbike wars of the 80s and 90s when Kawasaki, Honda, and Sazuki were all measuring their dicks by how fast their flagship bikes could go. It took a threat of their bikes getting banned in the EU to get them to all voluntarilly limit their bike's top ends to around 299kph (though it's pretty easy to remove the limiter anyway). The only thing that keeps the same from happening to the supercar/hypercar market is their cost puts them out of the reach of most drivers.

Edit: Found a vid of the SSC Ultimate Aero getting reviewed by Jay Leno's Garage. Go to about 4:45 to hear what a real engine should sound like. Goddamned thing fucking roars when you lay the hammer down.

[Atlan]

May in a Bugatti showing the Shelby people how to make a fast car: very cool

To bad for Bugatti the Shelby Supercars guys redid the Ultimate Aero. New model cranks out 15% more horsepower in a car that's aerodynamically slicker than the Veyron at half the weight (and a 1/4 the cost). Watch for them to one up Bugatti (again) sometime in the coming months.

Hehe, wouldn't have expected anything else There's an article about May's run in the magazine version of TG, it talked about how this is turning into a dickwaving contest on both sides.

Nah this is it for the Bugatti guys, with the next car being a sedan and all that. Seriously though, I've heard that the Bugatti block can EASILY crank out 1500 horsepower if they wanted to, it's just that at the level it is now it will last the entire life of the car. That thing is overengineered to a ridiculous degree. Besides, what was the life of the tires? 34 miles at top speed (i.e. just over a full tank of gas) that's a cool 20,000 pounds for a new set of rubber.
Hell, it drives so smoothly that the first time May drove it he stopped and opened up the door. OOPS. He was still driving at seventy kph he just didn't feel the car move any more...

[Mr. Coffee]

Nah this is it for the Bugatti guys, with the next car being a sedan and all that. Seriously though, I've heard that the Bugatti block can EASILY crank out 1500 horsepower if they wanted to, it's just that at the level it is now it will last the entire life of the car.

You could do that with pretty much any engine with more than 4 cylinders. In the veyron's case they had to redesign the turbos and turbo intercoolers just to get another 98 ponies out of the engine. I think they've pretty much reached the limits of that engine would out some seriously hardcore modifications, so for them it's pretty much replace the entire engine in order to get any more power into the Veyron. What would really help the Veyron isn't adding more power, but lightening the fucking beast so it doesn't weigh more than two tons.

Meanwhile the Ultimate Aero is pumping out 1200+ horsepower out of a much smaller engine using only two turbochargers at 14lbs of boost each in a car that weighs 3/5ths the Veyron's weight. Fun thing about that is, they've got a lot of wiggle room for getting more horsepower out of the engine.

[Bounty]

What would really help the Veyron isn't adding more power, but lightening the fucking beast so it doesn't weigh more than two tons.

But that would defeat the whole point of the Veyron. It's whole shtick is that it's not just a crazy fast car, it's a crazy fast and comfortable grand tourer with a stereo and air conditioning that just happens to go faster than any production car on Earth. Well, until the next Shelby press release anyway.

Saying "well they should jettison weight" is like saying a 747 can fly farther if they lost the seats so everyone would sit on the floor; technically true but kinda missing the point.

[Mr. Coffee]

But that would defeat the whole point of the Veyron. It's whole shtick is that it's not just a crazy fast car, it's a crazy fast and comfortable grand tourer with a stereo and air conditioning that just happens to go faster than any production car on Earth. Well, until the next Shelby press release anyway.

I understand that complete, B. The whole point of the Veyron is to be a monument to automotive excess. All I'm saying is that pretty much all they can really do to make it go faster without an entirely new engine or redesigning the body for better aerodynamics it to drop it's weigh by couple of few hundred pounds. That said, riddle me this...

How it is the SSC guys could put all of those creature comforts into the Ultimate Aero and still keep the car's weight under two and a half tons? Oh right, they didn't over-engineer it to the point of absurdity.

[eion]

You do have to ask yourself which you'd rather be in an accident in at 200mph?

I'd take the overengineered Bugatti, I think.

[Starglider]

How it is the SSC guys could put all of those creature comforts into the Ultimate Aero and still keep the car's weight under two and a half tons?

Probably because the SSC car is much harder to drive and a lot less safe as well as being less reliable and having shorter component life. The Veyron has AWD, ABS, traction control, stability augmentation, launch control etc so that billionaires with no racing experience can drive it fast without crashing that much; and pretty generous crumple zones for when they do inevitably crash. The super-fast DSG and AWD do add a lot of weight but also give the Veyron a considerably faster 0-60 time than the SSC car, which again is catering to the target market (the people who buy Veyrons are more likely to get their kicks flooring the accelerator on an empty straight road than testing the limits of grip on track days).

In the veyron's case they had to redesign the turbos and turbo intercoolers just to get another 98 ponies out of the engine. I think they've pretty much reached the limits of that engine would out some seriously hardcore modifications... Meanwhile the Ultimate Aero is pumping out 1200+ horsepower out of a much smaller engine using only two turbochargers at 14lbs of boost each in a car that weighs 3/5ths the Veyron's weight.

I thought the Aero was supercharged rather than turbocharged? Increasing supercharger boost is much easier than increasing turbocharger boost, because you don't have to care about lag and exhaust backpressure. I'm pretty sure a Veyron would produce 1500+ peak power if you supercharged it, at the cost of reduced engine life and less low end torque.

P.S. That's 199 more HP, not 98.

[Mr. Coffee]

Probably because the SSC car is much harder to drive and a lot less safe as well as being less reliable and having shorter component life.

Ok, let's see your source any of that.

The Veyron has AWD, ABS, traction control, stability augmentation, launch control etc so that billionaires with no racing experience can drive it fast without crashing that much; and pretty generous crumple zones for when they do inevitably crash.

Yes, because any of that matters when you wreck at 200mph+. Basically what you're saying he is that the Veyron is for people with waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much money and not enough common sense to learn how to handle a car that powerful. Ultimate Aero is meant for people that actually know how to drive. Shit, the very show this thread is based on shows quite a few cars a lot slower than the Veyron can kick it's ass on track.

The super-fast DSG and AWD do add a lot of weight

They don't add enough to account for the vehicle weighing in excess of two fucking tons.

but also give the Veyron a considerably faster 0-60 time than the SSC car,

Buggati's published 0-99kph time is 2.5sec. SSC's published time for the Ultimate Aero is 2.48sec. Standing 1/4mile time for the Bugatti is 10.2sec @ 143mph, the Ultimate Aero does it in 9.9 at 144mph.

which again is catering to the target market (the people who buy Veyrons are more likely to get their kicks flooring the accelerator on an empty straight road than testing the limits of grip on track days).

Like I said, one is for bored rich people that don't know how to drive, the other's for bored rich people that do know how to drive.

In the veyron's case they had to redesign the turbos and turbo intercoolers just to get another 98 ponies out of the engine. I think they've pretty much reached the limits of that engine would out some seriously hardcore modifications... Meanwhile the Ultimate Aero is pumping out 1200+ horsepower out of a much smaller engine using only two turbochargers at 14lbs of boost each in a car that weighs 3/5ths the Veyron's weight.

I thought the Aero was supercharged rather than turbocharged? Increasing supercharger boost is much easier than increasing turbocharger boost, because you don't have to care about lag and exhaust backpressure.

Nope, the Ultimate Aero is dual-turbocharged. Also, with superchargers instead of having to contend with exhaust backpressure you've got got an extra pulley attached to the crankshaft, which can rob the engine's output a bit and now the amount of boost you've got going is entirely dependent on hard you're romping the throttle. Properly sized and dailed in you can get full boost out of a turbo at much lower rpms with very little lag or even damned no lag at all.

I'm pretty sure a Veyron would produce 1500+ peak power if you supercharged it, at the cost of reduced engine life and less low end torque.

Not without heavily modifying the engine, tranny, chassis, suspension system, ect... At that point you might as well go back and start designing a new car.

P.S. That's 199 more HP, not 98.

Good catch. They added 199hp, the SSC guys added 104hp. 1200hp and weigh over two tons vs 1287hp and weighs a little over one and quarter tons.

[aerius]

The super-fast DSG and AWD do add a lot of weight but also give the Veyron a considerably faster 0-60 time than the SSC car, which again is catering to the target market (the people who buy Veyrons are more likely to get their kicks flooring the accelerator on an empty straight road than testing the limits of grip on track days).

DSG adds a few dozen kg, AWD adds maybe 200-250kg at most.

I thought the Aero was supercharged rather than turbocharged? Increasing supercharger boost is much easier than increasing turbocharger boost, because you don't have to care about lag and exhaust backpressure. I'm pretty sure a Veyron would produce 1500+ peak power if you supercharged it, at the cost of reduced engine life and less low end torque.

The Aero's turbocharged. The Veyron would have a hell of a time making 1500hp if you supercharged it since 1) there's no place to cram the supercharger without totally fucking up the intake and exhaust manifold routing and 2) good luck routing the airflow for the intercoolers on a supercharger, with turbos you can stick the intercoolers wherever you want, with superchargers the placement is a lot more limited. Good luck trying to work that out on the W-16 while still getting it to fit into the car.

[ShadowDragon8685]

The Aero is for bored rich people who want to go to a concourse race, get their car off the back of the truck, and nuke flat everybody on the field, then put their car back on the truck and have Nigel pick them in the limo to go get dinner.

The Veyron is for bored rich people who want to drive to a concourse track, pull up to the start line, nuke flat everybody not in an Aero, and then drive off to go get dinner or pick up a woman.

The Veyron Super Sport is for bored rich people who want to drive to a concourse track, pull up to the start line, nuke flat everybody including the guys in the old Aero, and then drive off to go get dinner or pick up a woman.

The new Aero is because Mr. Shelby doesn't want to relinquish the title of "fastest car in the world."


Honestly, I'd rather have the Veyron.


Anyway, about the rest of the episode...

The cynical bastard in me wants to say "no way Tom and Cameron set the fastest and then the fastest time again, on the track in a car they've never driven before, fairly." The cynic in me wants to suspect the BBC of ordering Top Gear to tune up the car for their laps in order to ensure they blew Rupert Grint's lap time out of the water.

The believer in me says that if they did that, Clarkson would have personally tuned up the car (after the garage was done) by installing a three hundred pound lead weight in the boot, or the Stig would have flat-out refused to participate in a rigged competition or something.

Between the cynical bastard and the believer there lies probable truth: that Tom Cruise and Cameron Diaz have almost certainly attended performance driving schools, if not the plausible (albeit not terribly likely) chance that they actually purchased a Cee'd and practiced in it. The latter seems unlikely since they kept bollocksing up the gear-shifts, but they both clearly know their way around fierce driving. Given that, I've gotta say it was awesome, fair, and to be perfectly frank spectacular, though it makes me wonder if they should have a lap board for people whose skills lie between "no formal performance training" and "competing with The StigRubens Barrichello."

Also, it was enheartening to see the Duke of Hammond win a "car versus extreme sportsmen" challenge for like, the second time ever. (I know he beat a man with a jetpack on rollerblades in a drag race. I can't recall any other victories off the top of my head.)

[eion]

You think they're the first movie stars who have some driving ability or have spent some time on a track or with a driving coach?

They seemed to be having a great time, and going on Top Gear is certainly a much more fun way to promote a movie than sitting on some chat show and giving the same 3 annecdotes. They got to promote their movie AND drive a car really really fast around a track.

I for one look forward to more A-list stars going on Top Gear and taking the SIARPC challenge as serious as these two.

[Aaron]

They go around a number of times and they get practice sessions with The Stig as well. They don't just get thrown in the car and given one lap.

[ShadowDragon8685]

They go around a number of times and they get practice sessions with The Stig as well. They don't just get thrown in the car and given one lap.

I have been watching for years? I know this.

One upset could be easily understood (Brian 'Brain' Johnson, for one, flat smashed the last RPC record,) but these two came in first and then firster, on the same episode? It seems... A bit too awesome, you know? This isn't "has spent some time with a driving coach years ago and then spent some laps with the Stig now," that was a seriously unusually rare performance, and two get two of them consecutively from a pair of long-time co-stars on the same episode?

[Aaron]

I have been watching for years? I know this.

One upset could be easily understood (Brian 'Brain' Johnson, for one, flat smashed the last RPC record,) but these two came in first and then firster, on the same episode? It seems... A bit too awesome, you know? This isn't "has spent some time with a driving coach years ago and then spent some laps with the Stig now," that was a seriously unusually rare performance, and two get two of them consecutively from a pair of long-time co-stars on the same episode?

Well when you start posting bizarre theories about them buying the car and practising ahead of time, it comes off as rather dumb.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the best; they got lucky. Or they have a bit of talent and got lucky.

[aerius]

The Aero is for bored rich people who want to go to a concourse race, get their car off the back of the truck, and nuke flat everybody on the field, then put their car back on the truck and have Nigel pick them in the limo to go get dinner.

The Veyron is for bored rich people who want to drive to a concourse track, pull up to the start line, nuke flat everybody not in an Aero, and then drive off to go get dinner or pick up a woman.

The Veyron Super Sport is for bored rich people who want to drive to a concourse track, pull up to the start line, nuke flat everybody including the guys in the old Aero, and then drive off to go get dinner or pick up a woman.

And that's why you're a village idiot.

A Veyron can barely edge out a Z06 Corvette around the Nurburgring while a ZR1 Corvette will smoke it so hard that it's not even funny. Put it on a shorter course such as Laguna Seca or Virginia International and even the Z06 Corvette will kill it. The Veyron is a shitty track car, period. There's well over a dozen production cars that can smoke it around a track.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Well when you start posting bizarre theories about them buying the car and practising ahead of time, it comes off as rather dumb.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the best; they got lucky. Or they have a bit of talent and got lucky.

It's not so bizzare. If you're filthy-stinking rich and you know ahead of time you're going to be asked to compete in a motorsport event with a specific vehicle on a specific track, it's not so much trouble to purchase that very vehicle and set up a near-enough replica of that track to practice on, and for that all you need is a sufficiently-large stretch of asphalt, the track layout for the one you'll be doing, and some bright gaffer tape.

I could see see one of them having rocketed to the top of the board as lucky, since it's not a small board. But the way it happened - Diaz beats out Grint's time, and then Cruise takes her time by precisely one (dramatic) second? It just seems a bit... Improbably lucky. Remember, the simplest answer isn't always actually the correct one.

Still, it seems more probably that they're simply more than talented amateurs, that they've had prior performance driving training. Since they both tend to do action movies a fair bit, and they both said they do their own stunts, it's not implausible that they've attended performance driving schools, or been tutored in it, long before they met the Stig. A combination of talent, prior formal training, and good weather would seem most likely to me.

And that's why you're a village idiot.

A Veyron can barely edge out a Z06 Corvette around the Nurburgring while a ZR1 Corvette will smoke it so hard that it's not even funny. Put it on a shorter course such as Laguna Seca or Virginia International and even the Z06 Corvette will kill it. The Veyron is a shitty track car, period. There's well over a dozen production cars that can smoke it around a track.

Back that claim up, please, in a scenario controlled for variances in driver skill, or retract it.

[JointStrikeFighter]

And that's why you're a village idiot.

A Veyron can barely edge out a Z06 Corvette around the Nurburgring while a ZR1 Corvette will smoke it so hard that it's not even funny. Put it on a shorter course such as Laguna Seca or Virginia International and even the Z06 Corvette will kill it. The Veyron is a shitty track car, period. There's well over a dozen production cars that can smoke it around a track.

Except a corvette is shit.

[Mr. Coffee]

And that's why you're a village idiot.

A Veyron can barely edge out a Z06 Corvette around the Nurburgring while a ZR1 Corvette will smoke it so hard that it's not even funny. Put it on a shorter course such as Laguna Seca or Virginia International and even the Z06 Corvette will kill it. The Veyron is a shitty track car, period. There's well over a dozen production cars that can smoke it around a track.

Back that claim up, please, in a scenario controlled for variances in driver skill, or retract it.

He just gave you a specific example, you illiterate fuck. Nurburgring tack times for production cars, there's 28 different vehicles, all of which are significantly slower than a Veyron that posted faster lap times. Fuck, the Corvette ZR-1 posted a faster lap then the Veyron twice, and one of those runs was made by one of the fucking engineers that built it.

Seriously, shut your fucking mouth, boy. Adults are trying to have a conversation here.

Except a corvette is shit.

I guess in Australia "shit" means "better than"... Seriously, JSF, don't be like Shadowdipshit.

[ShadowDragon8685]

And that's why you're a village idiot.

A Veyron can barely edge out a Z06 Corvette around the Nurburgring while a ZR1 Corvette will smoke it so hard that it's not even funny. Put it on a shorter course such as Laguna Seca or Virginia International and even the Z06 Corvette will kill it. The Veyron is a shitty track car, period. There's well over a dozen production cars that can smoke it around a track.

Back that claim up, please, in a scenario controlled for variances in driver skill, or retract it.

He just gave you a specific example, you illiterate fuck. Nurburgring tack times for production cars, there's 28 different vehicles, all of which are significantly slower than a Veyron that posted faster lap times. Fuck, the Corvette ZR-1 posted a faster lap then the Veyron twice, and one of those runs was made by one of the fucking engineers that built it.

Seriously, shut your fucking mouth, boy. Adults are trying to have a conversation here.

Reread the bolded part, you illiterate fuck. Sabine Schmidt in a Porsche 911 Turbo will flatten Joe Schmoe in a Bugatti Veyron. Hell, Sabine Schmidt in a fucking Ford Transit flattened Joe Schmoes in a 911.

The point is to control for variances in driver's skill, not dick-wagging "The guy who built the Corvette can beat a random rich idiot in a Veyron!" Which means the same driver on the same track.

[weemadando]

Except a corvette is shit.

I guess in Australia "shit" means "better than"... Seriously, JSF, don't be like Shadowdipshit.

I think the point is that a Corvette is ugly and in Australia, merely owning one is grounds for being fed to the funnel webs. Especially when the car that you are comparing it to is a Veyron.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Except a corvette is shit.

I guess in Australia "shit" means "better than"... Seriously, JSF, don't be like Shadowdipshit.

I think the point is that a Corvette is ugly and in Australia, merely owning one is grounds for being fed to the funnel webs. Especially when the car that you are comparing it to is a Veyron.

Dont forget shit build quality and plastic parts.