I meant governors as in people who govern (which I realise now was a poor choice of words as you actually have Governors with a capital G over there). I'm aware that you don't have term limits for everything but the point remains that in the US as in all other liberal democracies it's frankly impossible to honestly look at their constitutions and conclude that they were set up on the assumption that "some people are inherently better and should be trusted with extra special rights over others in the vain belief that this ruling class will somehow produce superior results".CaptainChewbacca wrote:I don't know for sure if all US states have term limits on governors or other elected officials.Plekhanov wrote:I must confess I'm in awe of the strength of the wall of ignorance necessary for a citizen of the US to make such a statement in spite of the fact the constitution he lives under explicitly separates powers, mandates regular elections of, places term limits on... governors precisely because of an awareness that people are fallible and shouldn't be trusted.Voluntaryist wrote: But government, on the other hand, believes that some people are inherently better and should be trusted with extra special rights over others in the vain belief that this ruling class will somehow produce superior results.
Comment thread for Anarcho-Libertarian Coliseum debate
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Granted, point conceeded. BTW, only 36 US states have term limits for their governors. Also interesting, in a few states the legislators have overturned their own laws about term limits to keep themselves in power.
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The American government is evil because it disallows the practice of free markets. If America had no government, the free market, capitalism, and corporations would flourish.
The American government is evil because the government chooses who gets special powers. Elections are evil because only mayors and arch-dukes and cardinals and barons are allowed to vote. Not the common man.
This statement applies to all governments everywhere, past, present and future.
The American government is evil because the government chooses who gets special powers. Elections are evil because only mayors and arch-dukes and cardinals and barons are allowed to vote. Not the common man.
This statement applies to all governments everywhere, past, present and future.
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You know, I think I recall a time when I was a child, and I thought (like Volleyball) that direct democracy would be better than representative democracy. Mind you, at the time I also thought that high school kids were big and scary.
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Dude, they are!Darth Wong wrote:You know, I think I recall a time when I was a child, and I thought (like Volleyball) that direct democracy would be better than representative democracy. Mind you, at the time I also thought that high school kids were big and scary.
![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
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I would like to actually see you debate. So far such occurrences have been fleeting.Voluntaryist wrote:I already have a roughdraft reply, and I will be revising it tonight. How much more control of my own debate do you wish to exert? Authoritarian much, Chewie?CaptainChewbacca wrote:V, you need to go post in the debate thread, if you have time to post here.
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I'm looking forward to seeing Volleyball handle the issue of how a disorganized society can face challenges that require organization, such as, like Surlethe pointed out, maintaining a military force able to repel external aggressors, or as has been pointed in other threads, tackling complex non-profit developments, such as a welfare system or toll-free highways.
Edit: Spelling
And yet, even back then, if you wanted to play anything more complex than sitting alone during recess, you had to set rules, and even decide who was to lead, and to referee. Administrative power is a need of any cooperative endeavor, given that the needs of the task will most certainly conflict with the needs of the individuals. Voluntaryst reminds of those who blame the referees for their teams' defeats.Darth Wong wrote:You know, I think I recall a time when I was a child, and I thought (like Volleyball) that direct democracy would be better than representative democracy. Mind you, at the time I also thought that high school kids were big and scary.
Edit: Spelling
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To be fair, the original U.S. Constitution granted voting rights only to white male landowners, so those people were indeed a ruling class that the Framers thought should be trusted with extra special rights.Plekhanov wrote:I meant governors as in people who govern (which I realise now was a poor choice of words as you actually have Governors with a capital G over there). I'm aware that you don't have term limits for everything but the point remains that in the US as in all other liberal democracies it's frankly impossible to honestly look at their constitutions and conclude that they were set up on the assumption that "some people are inherently better and should be trusted with extra special rights over others in the vain belief that this ruling class will somehow produce superior results".CaptainChewbacca wrote:I don't know for sure if all US states have term limits on governors or other elected officials.Plekhanov wrote: I must confess I'm in awe of the strength of the wall of ignorance necessary for a citizen of the US to make such a statement in spite of the fact the constitution he lives under explicitly separates powers, mandates regular elections of, places term limits on... governors precisely because of an awareness that people are fallible and shouldn't be trusted.
Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things... their number is negligible and they are stupid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower
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The original U.S. Consitution didn't really specify anything regarding voting rights. It did specifically name black slaves as "3/5ths persons" for taxation and apportionment purposes, however.Metatwaddle wrote:To be fair, the original U.S. Constitution granted voting rights only to white male landowners, so those people were indeed a ruling class that the Framers thought should be trusted with extra special rights.Plekhanov wrote:I meant governors as in people who govern (which I realise now was a poor choice of words as you actually have Governors with a capital G over there). I'm aware that you don't have term limits for everything but the point remains that in the US as in all other liberal democracies it's frankly impossible to honestly look at their constitutions and conclude that they were set up on the assumption that "some people are inherently better and should be trusted with extra special rights over others in the vain belief that this ruling class will somehow produce superior results".CaptainChewbacca wrote: I don't know for sure if all US states have term limits on governors or other elected officials.
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Patience! He has to spend a day crying, followed by a day of increasing self-deception. Then he proofs the article.The Vortex Empire wrote:So, Volley, you going to post a response yet?
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Yes (and that example is something I bring up often when I run into Founding Father wankers), but that's specific to early America. Volleyball, like so many American libertarians, seems to forget that early America is not necessarily a model for all government. But it seems to me that most American libertarians are very nostalgic about that period; I wonder if most American libertarians are also white people.Metatwaddle wrote:To be fair, the original U.S. Constitution granted voting rights only to white male landowners, so those people were indeed a ruling class that the Framers thought should be trusted with extra special rights.
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I have. My idiot brother. But then he is also delusional so maybe he shouldn't count.Frank Hipper wrote:Ever meet a Libertarian who wasn't also pro-Confederate?
I haven't.
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Well, well, if he's not pro-Confederate at least, there might still hope for him.Darth Servo wrote:My idiot brother.
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Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
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He won't support anything. That would require effort on his part. Here are some threads on all the gory details.Stas Bush wrote:Well, well, if he's not pro-Confederate at least, there might still hope for him.Darth Servo wrote:My idiot brother.At least he has enough of a conscience and mind not to support slavery-loving assholes.
link 1
link 2
"everytime a person is born the Earth weighs just a little more."--DMJ on StarTrek.com
"You see now you are using your thinking and that is not a good thing!" DMJay on StarTrek.com
"Watching Sarli argue with Vympel, Stas, Schatten and the others is as bizarre as the idea of the 40-year-old Virgin telling Hugh Hefner that Hef knows nothing about pussy, and that he is the expert."--Elfdart
"You see now you are using your thinking and that is not a good thing!" DMJay on StarTrek.com
"Watching Sarli argue with Vympel, Stas, Schatten and the others is as bizarre as the idea of the 40-year-old Virgin telling Hugh Hefner that Hef knows nothing about pussy, and that he is the expert."--Elfdart
The Constitutional framers also realized that they were probably wrong about something, if not then then in the future, so they instituted the power of amendment. Therefore, what the Constitution was is irrelevant compared to what it is.Darth Wong wrote:Yes (and that example is something I bring up often when I run into Founding Father wankers), but that's specific to early America. Volleyball, like so many American libertarians, seems to forget that early America is not necessarily a model for all government. But it seems to me that most American libertarians are very nostalgic about that period; I wonder if most American libertarians are also white people.Metatwaddle wrote:To be fair, the original U.S. Constitution granted voting rights only to white male landowners, so those people were indeed a ruling class that the Framers thought should be trusted with extra special rights.
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Bad news guys,
Youll never believe this, but last night while I was putting the finishing touches on my official debate response, my hard drive died on me! Im trying to recover the data in there, cause thats where my draft response was, but so far no luck. The HD seems to be totally fucked
Horrible timing for this to happen and Im obviously very pissed about it. Not only because of the debate but also cause of all my personal data, music, pics and shit in there that now seem to be lost forever.![Mad :x](./images/smilies/icon_mad.gif)
Anyway I am going to have to redo my response on my GFs computer. Im going to rush it as quick as I can but Im not sure how soon Ill be able to post my response... hopefully sometime this weekend I can do it.
Youll never believe this, but last night while I was putting the finishing touches on my official debate response, my hard drive died on me! Im trying to recover the data in there, cause thats where my draft response was, but so far no luck. The HD seems to be totally fucked
![Crying or Very sad :cry:](./images/smilies/icon_cry.gif)
Horrible timing for this to happen and Im obviously very pissed about it. Not only because of the debate but also cause of all my personal data, music, pics and shit in there that now seem to be lost forever.
![Mad :x](./images/smilies/icon_mad.gif)
Anyway I am going to have to redo my response on my GFs computer. Im going to rush it as quick as I can but Im not sure how soon Ill be able to post my response... hopefully sometime this weekend I can do it.
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Yes, it did. But it ate far more than my homework ![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
Anyway I do remember most of my response and Im recreating it from memory now. Ill post it as soon as its ready.
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
Anyway I do remember most of my response and Im recreating it from memory now. Ill post it as soon as its ready.
A man is none the less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
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http://radicallibertarians.blogspot.com/
http://www.lysanderspooner.org/
http://tolfa.us/
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I'm still calling shenanigans on it. I'm also noting alot of the mess AND Volly now are sporting the date 1-4-08 in their avatar.
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