The MMA thread (mk1)

[weemadando]

Can I get a hell yeah?

Wandy v Sexyama in Sydney.

Will I be there?

HELL YEAH!

[aerius]

Wanderlei vs. an Asian guy usually ends up with the latter in a bloody unconscious heap on the ground.
It should be fun to see Wandy dishing out vicious beatings like he did in Pride.

[weemadando]

But will this still be the PRIDE Wandy? I don't really care. On the one hand I could get to see Wandy go crazy and king-kong a dude. On the other I could get to watch Sexyama put on a clinic.

Also, apparently the UFC have re-signed Sinosic. Because you know that you have to have as many local fighters as possible on a card. So, will we see the return of Perosh as well? Will Bonello be hired?

Hopefully - as long as Sotiropolous' next fight goes well, he'll feature prominently too.

[Edward Yee]

Hopefully - as long as Sotiropolous' next fight goes well, he'll feature prominently too.

How much you wanna bet in imaginary cookies that the antis' response will be to loop footage of his UFC 101 kimura to make the hometown boy* look like a monster?

* I predict this one as a specific way to counteract the "hometown boy" appeal.

[weemadando]

OK, that TUF episode was hilarious. It just goes to show what a fucking idiot Rampage is. And also how lacking in quick comebacks Rashad an Darrill were. Seriously, during Rampages big: "Walk up on me!" spiel, I was saying: "The response is: 'It's OK Rampage, we'll all just watch you walk away AGAIN. After your guy loses. AGAIN.'"

That fight was ridiculous, some amazingly sloppy striking and one of the worst triangles I've seen in MMA. PRO-TIP - you lock it down over the ankle, not the toes. That's why he was still punching you in the face for a minute or so before it ended.

And this weekend is Machida v Shogun. Anyone want to give their thoughts? I'm thinking Machida, but it's a close one in my head.

And btw:

[Edward Yee]

OK, that TUF episode was hilarious. It just goes to show what a fucking idiot Rampage is. And also how lacking in quick comebacks Rashad an Darrill were. Seriously, during Rampages big: "Walk up on me!" spiel, I was saying: "The response is: 'It's OK Rampage, we'll all just watch you walk away AGAIN. After your guy loses. AGAIN.'"

Coulda been that they were taking it personal, seeing as Team Rashad decided not to take the risk of him reacting poorly to "Team Cocky."

That fight was ridiculous, some amazingly sloppy striking and one of the worst triangles I've seen in MMA. PRO-TIP - you lock it down over the ankle, not the toes. That's why he was still punching you in the face for a minute or so before it ended.

In fairness, Hammerfistmania! is not how you're (supposed to) escape a triangle to begin with; my understanding is get the shoulder out (but don't get armbarred), then get the elbow out so that all the would-be choker can do with your forearm and head would be to try and hold your forearm against your carotid or throat for all that would do.

And this weekend is Machida v Shogun. Anyone want to give their thoughts? I'm thinking Machida, but it's a close one in my head.

Oh geeze... Machida Karate has its own wiki page. Lyoto Machida's the safe bet, though he better not fuck this up, he brought a nice suit and not the used-car-salesman one to this presser ferchrissake!

*Facepalm* Why the reference? (Re: the NSFW pic.)

[weemadando]

That fight was ridiculous, some amazingly sloppy striking and one of the worst triangles I've seen in MMA. PRO-TIP - you lock it down over the ankle, not the toes. That's why he was still punching you in the face for a minute or so before it ended.

In fairness, Hammerfistmania! is not how you're (supposed to) escape a triangle to begin with; my understanding is get the shoulder out (but don't get armbarred), then get the elbow out so that all the would-be choker can do with your forearm and head would be to try and hold your forearm against your carotid or throat for all that would do.

The escape for a triangle is to posture up - try and get yourself sitting back on your heels with your body upright. The guy either lets go in the process or you can slam him from there.

Rampage was an idiot - yelling at him to "STACK HIM UP!" which is exactly what you don't do for a triangle. I mean maybe if you are really confident you can stack it up and then step over his head to escape, but then you're just giving your arm away for an armbar. So, not only was Rampage an awful coach before the fight, he also gave his guy TERRIBLE advice during the fight.

[Edward Yee]

You're right, I forgot to mention the posturing up. I'm not a fan of the slam -- too much chance to me of it not causing the opponent to lose the hold, unless getting a lucky "land on the head KO," Hughes vs. Newton or Rampage vs. Arona style.

[weemadando]

No reason for the reference. Someone from BJJ was sending it around I thought it was fairly hilarious.

This card is really awesome. I mean it's not like it's stacked with big names, but the match-ups are fantastic and I can only imagine just how many of those fights are going to go off. Josh Neer v Gleison Tibau is my fight of the night pick. KO of the night will be Razak Al-Hassan taking out Kyle Kingsbury. Sub of the night will be Yushin Okami doing something horrible to Chael Sonnen, who will scream, because he ALWAYS screams, even when he got choked last time, he was still able to scream.

BTW - I heard on "It's time" (the Bruce Buffer podcast) that Anthony "Rumble" Johnson has a walking around weight of 214lbs. That dude fights at Welterweight. Consider that for a moment.

[The Spartan]

You mean to tell me he cuts 44 lbs for a fight?

[aerius]

And this weekend is Machida v Shogun. Anyone want to give their thoughts? I'm thinking Machida, but it's a close one in my head.

The only question is which Shogun shows up, if the 2005 Pride GP Shogun shows up then I think he takes it. From what little we saw in his fight against Liddell he's most of the way there, the only question is his cardio since the fight ended in the first round. Personally I want Shogun to win since that potentially sets up a fight with Anderson Silva, can you imagine how awesome a Shogun vs. Silva fight would be? That would be fucking Muay Thai madness, both of them have damn flashy moves and aren't afraid to use them in competition. There'll be spinning flying kicks & knees all over the place along with awesome clinchwork, the fight would be like a goddamn video game.

[weemadando]

You mean to tell me he cuts 44 lbs for a fight?

Yeah, no wonder he always looks like a fucking monster for his fights.

[weemadando]

And this weekend is Machida v Shogun. Anyone want to give their thoughts? I'm thinking Machida, but it's a close one in my head.

The only question is which Shogun shows up, if the 2005 Pride GP Shogun shows up then I think he takes it. From what little we saw in his fight against Liddell he's most of the way there, the only question is his cardio since the fight ended in the first round. Personally I want Shogun to win since that potentially sets up a fight with Anderson Silva, can you imagine how awesome a Shogun vs. Silva fight would be? That would be fucking Muay Thai madness, both of them have damn flashy moves and aren't afraid to use them in competition. There'll be spinning flying kicks & knees all over the place along with awesome clinchwork, the fight would be like a goddamn video game.

Or we could see Silva take it to the ground and show off some BJJ if he doesn't want to stand-up with the crazy Shogun. Though I'd love to see both of them in a clinch just throwing knees at each other.

[weemadando]

Oh yeah, and anyone hoping to see Dan Henderson in the UFC in the future may be disappointed.

Apparently Dana and the Fertitta's disagreed with his demands to be "by far" the highest paid guy on the roster. He is now in negotiations with Strikeforce, who he'll probably not go to. I have to imagine he may well hop back to Japan to make a shitload of money there fighting cans.


Edit:
From Sherdog's "Pro Picks" on Machida v Shogun:
Urijah Faber: Machida [via] side kick to the throat.
Rory Markham: I love Shogun and his style, but it’s so hard to bet against Machida as of late. I’ll take the crazy pee-drinking karate man.
Tom Gavrilos: One thing an elite counterpuncher loves is over-aggressiveness and wide looping punches. I’ve always been a big Shogun fan, but I choose Machida by decision. If you believe that styles make fights, it’s hard to give the nod to Shogun.
Pros that picked Machida: 21
Pros that picked Rua: 2

[Edward Yee]

You mean to tell me he cuts 44 lbs for a fight?

Yeah, no wonder he always looks like a fucking monster for his fights.

Unfortunately this time it didn't work out so well... he was six pounds overweight, and will be fined 20% of his purse; Yoshida was already informed. Gleison Tibau and Josh Neer also 'flopped' at 157 and 156.5 but agreed to fight at their failed weights... and Machida is giving up two full pounds to Shogun.

[aerius]

Or we could see Silva take it to the ground and show off some BJJ if he doesn't want to stand-up with the crazy Shogun. Though I'd love to see both of them in a clinch just throwing knees at each other.

I don't know if Silva wants to go to ground with Shogun, Rogerio Noguiera did that in the 2005 GP and took a bit of a beating doing that. Then again there's no stomps & soccer kicks (damnit!) in the UFC so they'd probably neutralize each other on the ground. Clinchwork with those guys though would be just a dream to watch, both have great knees and Shogun also does kicks from the clinch while both of them can ragdoll people around once they get the clinch locked down.

Shogun vs. Anderson Silva is probably my #1 dream fight, the only thing that could be better is having it under Pride rules.

nfortunately this time it didn't work out so well... he was six pounds overweight, and will be fined 20% of his purse; Yoshida was already informed. Gleison Tibau and Josh Neer also 'flopped' at 157 and 156.5 but agreed to fight at their failed weights... and Machida is giving up two full pounds to Shogun.

What the hell, is he taking lessons in weight cutting from Gina Carano, Cyborg, and Thiago Alves? I thought Alves was bad when he missed by 4 pounds in his fight against Hughes, 6 pounds is fucking ridiculous.

With Machida it's normal, he usually comes in a few pounds under the limit and I don't know if I've ever seen him right at the 205 pound limit. He's not a big guy.

[weemadando]

What I'm hanging out for is Machida's promise - if he gets five successful title defences in a row he's going to challenge Brock.

Which could be hte most ridiculous fight since weight classes were introduced.

[aerius]

Let's say, 2-3 title fights a year, so in theory Machida could be fighting Brock in a bit over 2 years. Brock is still learning & improving pretty fast so Machida's going to have one hell of a challenge, odds are Brock's going to get a hold of him, take him down and donkey kong him to death. Right now Machida would have a shot at it, in 2 years even Fedor would have a hell of a hard time beating Brock.

[Edward Yee]

Machida however has admitted that he'd have to keep Brock Lesnar from getting a hold of him, or "the punishment would be enormous." As for weight, his S&C coach said that Machida's walkaround weight is only 208, and the heaviest I've seen for him at LHW was 206 against Thiago Silva (also 206). Here's hoping though that the weight "disadvantage" against Shogun is more than made up for by any increased speed/reaction time.

Paulo Filho missed weight against Chael Sonnen the second time around by 4 to 7 lb; this was the infamous "imaginary bystanders" (my term) match where Sonnen won by UD but didn't get the title.

[aerius]

That was one of the more bullshit decisions I've seen in a while, pretty close to the badness of the Hamill/Bisping decision, how the hell did all 3 judges score the fight for Machida? Did they fucking clone Cecile Peoples? I could give Machida the 3rd round for the flurry he put on at the end, but every other round was Shogun kicking the shit out of Machida's legs & midsection, with the rest of the exchanges being fairly even, Machida might've gotten a few more hits in but Shogun did way more damage. He cracked Machida in the head with elbows from the clinch, kneed the shit out of his legs in the clinch, and got him with some good punches as well. It was a great technical striking match, the best I can remember seeing in a hell of a long time and the goddamn judges fucked it up.

Oh yeah, and Mazzagatti fucks up another stoppage. What else is new? Ben Rothwell was getting tooled for the entire fight and it was only a matter of time before he got TKO'd, but the guy was getting to his feet while getting punched when Molestasche Steve stopped the fight. Ben wasn't falling, he wasn't pinned on the ground or turtling, no, he'd posted off the mat and was standing up when the fight was stopped. Yeah he was getting punched, but they weren't big punches and he wasn't in any danger of getting knocked out. Terrible stoppage, if he was going to end the fight it should've been done in the 1st round when Ben was getting beaten senseless on the ground.

[Edward Yee]

This ain't the first place I've seen this complaint about the judges ruining this possible FOTY. At least both Anderson and Yoshizo supposedly have given Lyoto the talking-to backstage, and it makes sense that he's being so relatively subdued about things... promotionally he's damaged goods, a loss after this would have been way better in terms of his image than this "win." at the sight of Shogun pretty much crying behind his hands...

Did anyone see Mazzagatti talk to Rothwell between rounds, something about "you can't keep taking shots"?... Doesn't look like it from the way Rothwell was pissed, but... I admit, Mazzagatti and I may have both been influenced by just how bad Round 1 went and how bad of a start Rothwell had with Round 2. Reminded me of Tibau vs. Neer minus Neer's positional defense.

On the other hand, I have to say that the rest of the card sounds a lot better than any of us would have given it credit for.

P.S. Re: the "Japanese" question at the post-fight presser... stupid question, stupid answer. No idea why Lyoto has completely reverted to Portuguese though.

[weemadando]

Wow, that was an awful decision. Maybe they don't score leg-kicks in California. More when I'm not typing in bed with my wife complaining.

edit 1: OK - awake now. Let's see.

That Shogun v Machida fight was the height of bullshit. I'm not even sure where to start. But this segues into the larger point of:

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST FIX THE JUDGING IN MMA.

That card was a great example of why we need a judging revamp. A few of those rounds in the Machida v Shogun fight were fucking close and I wouldn't want to have to call them a 10-9 either way. Especially seeing as what Velasquez did to Rothwell in round 1 would have been scored as a 10-9 round to Rothwell. Or how do you score the Tibau v Neer fight? Sure Tibau was landing takedowns at will, but Neer was far more aggressive once it hit the floor than Tibau and could stand-up at will. It just infuriates me that we have a match that is so close as that title fight being decided on the grounds that you have to award a round to someone - even when there isn't a clear winner. And especially when total domination is scored the same as razor-thin margin.

edit 2: And Dana has said that there will be an immediate Machida v Shogun re-match. Thank god.

[aerius]

Did anyone see Mazzagatti talk to Rothwell between rounds, something about "you can't keep taking shots"?... Doesn't look like it from the way Rothwell was pissed, but... I admit, Mazzagatti and I may have both been influenced by just how bad Round 1 went and how bad of a start Rothwell had with Round 2.

Yeah, I saw that, it's still a shitty stoppage though. Rothwell was still intelligently defending himself and he was getting back to his feet when the fight was stopped. How does that make sense other than as a mercy stoppage? I thought Ben looked pretty pissed right after the fight was stopped.

That Shogun v Machida fight was the height of bullshit. I'm not even sure where to start. But this segues into the larger point of:

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST FIX THE JUDGING IN MMA.

Yeah, like what the fuck is Cecil Peoples doing judging an MMA fight when he's fucked up at least half the fights he's judged? I can understand calling the Wandy/Franklin fight either way, but this last fight or the Hamill/Bisping fight? What the fuck. It's MMA, not fucking boxing where all the points are scored from jabs to the head, I swear to god these judges were watching a boxing match, again.

In the Shogun/Machida fight the first round was pretty close, Machida stole the 3rd round at the end but Shogun had a clear edge in all the other rounds. I don't know how you can look at this and call the fight for Machida. More strikes to the legs alone by Shogun than total strikes by Machida.

edit:

edit 2: And Dana has said that there will be an immediate Machida v Shogun re-match. Thank god.

And if there isn't an immediate rematch, I feel sorry for Shogun & Machida's next opponents. They both know the decision was fucked up and will be looking to kill someone in their next fights.

[Zadius]

II would score it 49-47 for Shogun. I did have to watch the fight again though, since I was so surprised that Shogun was taking it to Machida that I didn't notice that Machida actually got quite a few licks in himself. Shogun ate a few punches to the face when he was throwing those kicks, because Machida was timing the counter. Nevertheless, Shogun's kicks were more significant and by the last two rounds they were visibly affecting Machida.

Also, am I the only person in the world who thinks Bisping/Hamill was more a problem with the scoring system then the judges?

[Edward Yee]

Yeah, I saw that, it's still a shitty stoppage though. Rothwell was still intelligently defending himself and he was getting back to his feet when the fight was stopped. How does that make sense other than as a mercy stoppage? I thought Ben looked pretty pissed right after the fight was stopped.

Oh, he looked pretty pissed, and even Velasquez allowed that he felt it wasn't over. In my eyes though, round 1 and what there was of round 2 were so brutal that I couldn't see Rothwell somehow escaping despite starting to stand, and my initial impression as round 2 began was that Rothwell seemed sluggish in emerging from his corner. In a weird way... reminds me of Kimbo vs. Roy Nelson, in terms of "stop it now instead of R1?" Or think Gleison Tibau and Josh Neer minus Neer's butterfly guard. Otherwise, disgustingly lopsided.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST FIX THE JUDGING IN MMA.

Just like Shane Carwin has tweeted.

In the Shogun/Machida fight the first round was pretty close, Machida stole the 3rd round at the end but Shogun had a clear edge in all the other rounds. I don't know how you can look at this and call the fight for Machida. More strikes to the legs alone by Shogun than total strikes by Machida.

Ironically, Cecil Peoples gave rounds 4 and 5 to Shogun, as did I and almost everyone except Nelson Hamilton. I only saw rounds 4 and 5 myself, but rounds 2 and 3 were scored for Machida and round 5 for Rua unanimously, while Nelson gave round 1 to Shogun but round 4 to Machida.

I did have to watch the fight again though, since I was so surprised that Shogun was taking it to Machida that I didn't notice that Machida actually got quite a few licks in himself.

I think this has actually been influencing a lot of people's judging more than they realize.