Re: 2016 Formula 1
Posted: 2016-12-02 08:46am
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Christian Horner would love that, but I doubt anyone else would. Even from the perspective of having the two best drivers on the grid in equal machinery I don't think it would produce the sort of brilliant competition you're thinking of, precisely because of the sort of internal politics that caused chaos last time round.atg wrote:I'm not expecting it but I'd love for Alonso to be Rosberg's replacement. Alonso v Hamilton round two, 10 years after the original? Yes please.
Wehrlein I don't see reaching a top team anytime soon. He did well against Haryanto but then Ocon came in a performed equally in machinery he wasn't familiar with. Hence Ocon being picked up by Force India. Renault have already said Hulk won't be released from his contract and I'd be surprised if Force India would let Perez go.Alferd Packer wrote:I would say Wehrlein, but I don't think he's there yet. Perez? Hulk? Bottas? Someone in GP2? Hell, an eligible IndyCar driver?
I want this to happen so bad.atg wrote:I'm not expecting it but I'd love for Alonso to be Rosberg's replacement. Alonso v Hamilton round two, 10 years after the original? Yes please.
I am not sure if the drivers of Red Bull are better than Lewis Hamilton or Sebastian Vettel or Fernando Alonso tbh.Alferd Packer wrote:I would love to see a three-way fight next season. Right now, the Mercs have the best car, Red Bull have the best drivers, and Ferrari have...uh, Arrivabene? Still, who knows if Mercedes can continue to get the car right in light of the new regs, so anything is possible.
Hamilton and Alonso are certainly better than either of the RBs, at least for the moment. Vettel, on the other hand, is massively overrated. He's quick, but he's not a racer. Of those driving last season I'd rate Hamilton, Alonso, Riccardo, Verstappen, both Nicos, Button and Bottas above him. Raikkonen too if the right one turns up.Thanas wrote:I am not sure if the drivers of Red Bull are better than Lewis Hamilton or Sebastian Vettel or Fernando Alonso tbh.
I mean, you can make a convincing argument in either direction, but Mercedes only has one driver right now. So yeah, I would agree that you can make a team of drivers who beat Red Bull on raw talent, but that team currently doesn't yet exist.Thanas wrote:I am not sure if the drivers of Red Bull are better than Lewis Hamilton or Sebastian Vettel or Fernando Alonso tbh.
Captain Seafort wrote:Vettel, on the other hand, is massively overrated. He's quick, but he's not a racer.
Every so often I start to come around to that point of view. Then Seb the Shunt demonstrates how he got that nickname and my opinion plummets again.Thanas wrote:You know, we always have this argument and there is no rational reason to devalue Vettel the way you do. By any objective standard he is a damn good racer.
You must really hate Alonso and Hamilton then.Captain Seafort wrote:Every so often I start to come around to that point of view. Then Seb the Shunt demonstrates how he got that nickname and my opinion plummets again.
Everybody has shunts on occasion. Seb gives off vibes of being a shunt waiting to happen. Hamilton certainly dropped considerably in my estimation in 2011 (assuming that wasn't simply big magnets installed in his and Massa's cars by Bernie to make things interesting), and has taken a while to build back up, but now it's the exception rather than the rule (as with Alonso). Vettel does it either by steaming into a situation with what appears to be little more than crossed fingers, or by having no idea where the back of his car is (see his infamous collision with Webber in Turkey for the definitive example).Thanas wrote:You must really hate Alonso and Hamilton then.
Captain Seafort wrote:Everybody has shunts on occasion. Seb gives off vibes of being a shunt waiting to happen. Hamilton certainly dropped considerably in my estimation in 2011 (assuming that wasn't simply big magnets installed in his and Massa's cars by Bernie to make things interesting), and has taken a while to build back up, but now it's the exception rather than the rule (as with Alonso). Vettel does it either by steaming into a situation with what appears to be little more than crossed fingers, or by having no idea where the back of his car is (see his infamous collision with Webber in Turkey for the definitive example).Thanas wrote:You must really hate Alonso and Hamilton then.
Brake testing Kvyat in the middle of a flat out left hander in Russia, and weaving in the braking zone that got him punted down to fifth in Mexico spring to mind. Admittedly Verstappen is prone to this, and if he doesn't get a grip of such things he stands a good chance of becoming another Vettel - I developed a pretty high opinion of Vettel during the latter stages of the 2009 season, which then started to go downhill with the repeated fuckups in 2010.Thanas wrote:So remind me when Vettel behaved badly this season and how that was more egregious?
Watching him dominate in Newey's superb RB7 was a bit boring. What gave me the opinion that he's not a racer, just a good pilot in a good car, was how he just cruised in first after winning quali every weekend, until he got challenged by Button's superb drive in the 2011 Canadian Grand Prix. Remember Jenson going from last to first over the course of the rain-delayed race? And how Vettel was relatively unbothered by anything until the last lap, when he got a little pressure from Button and span out?Thanas wrote:Captain Seafort wrote:Vettel, on the other hand, is massively overrated. He's quick, but he's not a racer.
You know, we always have this argument and there is no rational reason to devalue Vettel the way you do. By any objective standard he is a damn good racer.
By that logic Hamilton doesn't know how to drive either considering how many times he caused a crash through recklesss idiocy.Phantasee wrote:Watching him dominate in Newey's superb RB7 was a bit boring. What gave me the opinion that he's not a racer, just a good pilot in a good car, was how he just cruised in first after winning quali every weekend, until he got challenged by Button's superb drive in the 2011 Canadian Grand Prix.
His performance in a vastly inferior car (first before he came to RB and now after RB at Ferrari) belie that.Phantasee wrote:Hamilton (and Senna) crashed because they took risks while racing. Vettel can't actually race, he can just keep a lead Newey gave him.