2011 NFL Draft

[Thanas]

I wonder what the Bengal fans are so upset about. Judging their mood, they seem to be one step away from walking of a cliff.

And I am a bit steamed that the Bears tried to screw with us and got away with it. I do not buy their excuse that they were unable to get confirmation to the league on time - not with Ozzie yelling at them for close to 2.5 minutes to get confirmation to the league. They could not find a guy to get on the phone and double-check in that time? This cost us additional draft picks for sure (if not the 4th rounder, other teams were also willing to trade). Stupid bears.

[Havok]

Bengals fans are pissed because they know their owner is a douche and instead of trading Palmer, he is going to force him into retirement, getting effectively nothing for him and ending the career of one of the better QBs in the league about 8 years before his time.

San Francisco and I suspect, Seattle would give up considerable amounts of loot for Palmer if he were available. The Cardinals, I believe have their eyes on McNabb or Young, Wisenhunt coming from a place where a mobile quarterback who can extend plays, brought two Superbowl titles. The Vikings and Titans both just committed to their new QBs.

If the Bears did screw the Ravens, the league will punish them, something that they are good at, probably with awarding the Ravens some of the Bears picks for next years.

[Thanas]

Bengals fans are pissed because they know their owner is a douche and instead of trading Palmer, he is going to force him into retirement, getting effectively nothing for him and ending the career of one of the better QBs in the league about 8 years before his time.

He's got to be worth at least a 1st round pick. At what point do you start to think of your franchise?

If the Bears did screw the Ravens, the league will punish them, something that they are good at, probably with awarding the Ravens some of the Bears picks for next years.

I doubt it. They seem to think that the Bears are indeed that imcompetent and just "suggested" the Bears compensated us.

[Havok]

The league is good and efficient at one thing and that is investigating and punishing. Have some faith.

He's got to be worth at least a 1st round pick. At what point do you start to think of your franchise?

When they sell the franchise.

[Havok]

I mean, honestly, if they force Palmer into retirement when it is generally accepted and agreed upon that they can get a first round pick and then some for him, Bengals fans need to boycott all Bengals home games without question, stop buying Bengal merchandise and force the issue.

[Master of Ossus]

You pay attention to SI? I didn't think anyone still read it.

I don't know if "pay attention" is the right term. I figured it would be funny to check in, and they didn't disappoint.

Havok, I agree with your analysis of the 49ers draft. We got some good players, but unless Smith turns out to be the real deal, it's hard to see a gamebreaker next season. And not to get too down on it, since I'm hoping it will pan out to be a very good draft, but the last time we got a first round pass rusher (Manny Lawson) we didn't really get the player we were hoping to have selected.

[Havok]

Lawson hasn't been too bad. A second tier pass rusher I would say, in comparison to guys like Orapko, Mathews, Suggs etc.. Keep in mind too, that he hasn't exactly had the best help along the line. It's relatively easy to shut down two guys. (Lawson, Smith) The addition of Willis in the last four years has slowly helped, but bad corner play has been Lawson's worst enemy.

I went back and watched most of last years games and looked for something I swore I saw, and I was correct. Lawson was in the backfield on so many occasions and been within fingertips of sacks that if the corners could cover for a milisecond more or hadn't already given up coverage he would have had at LEAST 10 more sacks. Brooks, Smith and Harylson would have also had far more success with tighter coverage from the corners.

That's why I am a bummed we didn't get Peterson or Prince. They would have made an immediate impact based just on skill, play book or no. "Cover him man to man." would be pretty much all you need to say as they learned the play book later over the season. I'm still hoping that Nnamdi wants to stay in the Bay Area, as much as I know you doubt that.

[HeadCreeps]

I wonder what the Bengal fans are so upset about. Judging their mood, they seem to be one step away from walking of a cliff.

We have the perpetual loser mentality. There are a lot of reasons, really, so it depends on what you mean. Most of them relate to the draft in one way or another.

1. We were sure Palmer would be around for a lot longer than this. We had our reliable quarterback who epitomized professionalism - whenever something went wrong, he universally took the blame whether he deserved it or not. If Chad Ochocino ran the wrong route, Palmer claimed it was Palmer's fault for not throwing the ball correctly. Last season, the fans turned against Palmer. They started to blame him just as he blamed himself. But I digress; Carson Palmer now wants out and we've had the rug pulled out from under us. Palmer's leaving has forced us to ignore positions of great need that we already had, in order to pursue a position of greatest need. This should not be happening.

2. As Havok said, Mike Brown. He doesn't make good management decisions and he refuses to hire a general manager. As soon as the guy took over, the team turned from winners into losers, and has never recovered. We are completely inept at even building consecutive winning seasons. He said he doesn't want to trade Palmer, which is bad because even if he did want to trade the guy, Palmer's overpaid contract and Brown's unwillingness to accept a fair deal makes Palmer very difficult to deal out as it is.

3. Let's be honest. The quarterback situation isn't better because we drafted Andy Dalton. This was considered one of the worst QB draft classes since the Vince Young generation. Furthermore, in this draft class, we picked a guy who dropped to round 2. Sure, our new offensive coordinator likes Dalton. Hey, maybe things could turn out well. Tom Brady himself was what? A 7th round draft choice? But I'm not holding my breath.

4. Drafting a receiver in the first round is extremely risky. Yes, AJ Green is prototypical. Wide receiver is one of those positions where having a star player will not grant you wins. The losing Detroit Lions constantly picked receivers during their slump of the last so many years. Having a great receiver (if you even get one; 1st round receivers have one of the highest bust rates, according to the coldhardfootballfacts website) does not make a team into winners. I can attempt to find the link to an article on this if requested.

5. We were supposedly offered the same deal or better as the Browns were given for our first round draft pick. We could have been in the position the Browns were and had a much stronger chance to pick up more players across the spectrum of our many positional needs. Because of the other reasons, we ignored most positions which are not given the spotlight even though they are extremely important.

6. Our offense, defense, and special teams are all made of swiss cheese. Our offensive line is weak and a rookie QB will suffer from this. Our borderline average RB is reportedly considering leaving the team. One of our 2 star CBs is heading toward free agency, so we're panicking over that. We do not generate a sufficient pass rush (except with Carlos Dunlap) to generate enough pressure for our secondary to be able to do its job. We drafted Moch to fix this, so there is hope. We have no Safeties to speak of and drafted one very late, so it's hard to have high expectations.

7. Our Kicker even injures himself when he's doing nothing but practicing. He injured himself twice last season, so we practically started to pick people off the street. Our Punter is wildly inconsistent - IIRC, sometimes he even punts the ball 20 yards with no real wind. We did nothing to address this, and fans don't even consider this a need because of other issues.

8. Free agency during this offseason blockage is making us anxious. We're looking at losing a few of what most fans view as their best players, and a bunch of not-so-great players we still use as starters.

9. We just got a new Offensive Coordinator after years of whining about Bratkowski. Except with the lockout, our new OC can't communicate with his players and can't show them the new playbook. You know how we just picked up a rookie QB and don't have an established veteran to mentor him? Yeah, sure, this is going to work out just fine.

Oh, forget it. We're just used to losing, so cringing is what Bengals fans are good at. To be honest, I mainly follow the Cincy Jungle blog, and the writers there tend to be rather optimistic in the face of our flailing about.

upside:
1. Our schedule is cake. We might break even at 8-8!

2. Our receiving corps other than AJ Green already looked promising at the end of last season, so there is some kind of hope with that.

3. We could do so hilariously bad next year that we're in a perfect position to draft Luck.

[Havok]

Sorry man. I always root for the Bengals. Hard to believe they were in two Superbowls in the 80s.

[Thanas]

Oh, this is just delicious. Rashard Mendenhall just came out as a 9/11 truther.

[Havok]

I think we can ALL agree that the Steelers are an organization of racist, truther, birther, fascist, raping, cheaters.

[Thanas]

I am sure some squalers will be along shortly to complain explain.

[Elfdart]

Bengals fans are pissed because they know their owner is a douche and instead of trading Palmer, he is going to force him into retirement, getting effectively nothing for him and ending the career of one of the better QBs in the league about 8 years before his time.

San Francisco and I suspect, Seattle would give up considerable amounts of loot for Palmer if he were available. The Cardinals, I believe have their eyes on McNabb or Young, Wisenhunt coming from a place where a mobile quarterback who can extend plays, brought two Superbowl titles. The Vikings and Titans both just committed to their new QBs.

If the Bears did screw the Ravens, the league will punish them, something that they are good at, probably with awarding the Ravens some of the Bears picks for next years.

Mike Brown is justly despised by just about anyone who is into football, but he can't trade Palmer because of the lockout. Thanks to the run on QBs in the draft, he's not going to get much compensation for Palmer now, anyway.

By the way, did I or did I not predict accurately as follows:

You guys will more than likely get Colin Kaepernick in the 2nd.

Aside from the QB position, I don't think your team really needs help at any position. It's as loaded as any in the NFL. You just need to quit playing musical coaches, and let the team gel.

Rd 2. Torrey Smith, WR - As can be seen above, I was not that much in love with that pick. However, another fan made the quite convincing argument that he is a great speedster who can really stretch the field and was projected as a late 1st round in some mock drafts. There is also the need argument - Mason is in his last year, Stallworth and Housh won't be back and the rest are not true speedsters with that skill level. So this pick has great potential.

I wondered why a team like the Ravens that desperately needed receivers who could go deep didn't go for Randy Moss or Vincent Jackson last season.

As for my Chargers, I liked the picks AJ Smith made, but I'm annoyed by the fact that once again he has refused to bring in a true RT, which is the most important part of the line in the deep ball system the team runs. It's also important for face-planting defenders in the running game when it matters most. Liuget, Gilchrist and Brown look like definite keepers, and the 7th-rounder they gave up for Patrick Crayton has already paid off.

[Thanas]

I wondered why a team like the Ravens that desperately needed receivers who could go deep didn't go for Randy Moss or Vincent Jackson last season.

Because we got the following WRs via trade/Free Agency:

- Boldin
- Stallworth
- Housh

Stallworth was a speedy, deep threat and Boldin and Housh were also excellent receivers. So we already had 3 receivers with reportedly great skills that also proved themselves on other teams. However Stallworth got injured and spent the rest of the season as a nobody on the bench after he recovered and we all know how Housh worked out. Also, Cam Cameron just sucked in his playcalling last season. When you have guys on the NFL Network openly calling you out, you know the situation is a bad one. Had there been no lockout, Cameron would be gone already.

But honestly, if you got just three veteran receivers who are still young and of whom at least one is a proven speedster, would you go after others in the draft when you have other positions of need? Especially with your first picks?

[Elfdart]

Stallworth is the only real deep threat on your roster. Housh, Boldin, Mason and the others are all possession receivers. Your team is trying to play a deep ball offense with possession receivers. Funny you mentioned Cam Cameron, because he did the exact same thing in San Diego when he was OC. I don't really blame him, since the team didn't have the cheetah-like receivers they do now. If your new guy pans out and/or Stallworth plays a full season, I'll wager Cameron will suddenly get "smarter".

[Thanas]

Stallworth is the only real deep threat on your roster. Housh, Boldin, Mason and the others are all possession receivers. Your team is trying to play a deep ball offense with possession receivers. Funny you mentioned Cam Cameron, because he did the exact same thing in San Diego when he was OC. I don't really blame him, since the team didn't have the cheetah-like receivers they do now. If your new guy pans out and/or Stallworth plays a full season, I'll wager Cameron will suddenly get "smarter".

There is no chance we are going to keep Stallworth and Housh. Not with David Reed developing as he currently does and not with Torrey Smith on our rooster. Stallworth and Housh would just cost too much. And especially since they are represented by that super-agent Rosenberg, who is empathetic about his guys not taking a pay cut. And we do not have a lot of dough floating around, especially not with that deal Ngata is supposed to get - and we also have to have some left for free agency.

And the less said about Cameron, the better. Maybe he has a ritual at halftime where he bashes his head against the wall, because for some reason we always drop huuuuge leads in the third quarter because our offence turns from good to "holy crap, we just got sacked/intercepted several times in a row", thereby forcing our defence to wear itself out and thus causing us to lose the game.

And if he wanted speedy receivers, why not play Stallworth in a single game when he was ready, willing and able?

[Elfdart]

Well, this is the same Cam Cameron who only let Tomlinson handle the ball nine times in the second half of a playoff game.



On the other hand, he might not have made the decision about playing Stallworth. Either way, your team needs TWO deep threats to run that kind of offense and so far you have none -at least not until your new ones prove themselves or you bring in one someone.

[Havok]

Randy Moss. Terrell Owens.

And fuck anyone that says T.O. isn't still a deep threat.

Although at this point, and surprisingly, T.O. is the better citizen.

I wouldn't mind if he came back to SF to finish out his career and mentored Crabtree and Morgan like Rice did him.

[Master of Ossus]

Randy Moss. Terrell Owens.

And fuck anyone that says T.O. isn't still a deep threat.

Although at this point, and surprisingly, T.O. is the better citizen.

I wouldn't mind if he came back to SF to finish out his career and mentored Crabtree and Morgan like Rice did him.

I'd still worry that Owens would delay the development of our other receivers and I certainly wouldn't want his "me-first" attitude to spread to any of our youngsters. I'll concede that he can still play, though, so it's not like there wouldn't be any upside to that sort of a move. IMO, he's underrated on underneath throws, too.

[Elfdart]

Randy Moss. Terrell Owens.

And fuck anyone that says T.O. isn't still a deep threat.

Although at this point, and surprisingly, T.O. is the better citizen.

I wouldn't mind if he came back to SF to finish out his career and mentored Crabtree and Morgan like Rice did him.

Why not bring in Me-Shawn Johnson too while you're at it?

[Havok]

Well, T.O. has kept his skill and talent long enough to, by all recent accounts, be a pretty good locker room presence.

Me-Shawn couldn't hold a candle to T.O. on the field either.

[Darth Fanboy]

I am sure some squalers will be along shortly to complain explain.

There's nothing to explain, he's an idiot and I wish that once things were back to normal that the Steelers would deal him somewhere else and find a better running back. I'm not as big on him as others are because I don't think he really comes up big enough often enough and if he is going to be spouting 9/11 nonsense in Western Pennsylvania of all places then there's no hope.

[Darth Fanboy]

About TO...

Since his short tenure with the Bills what has TO done that warrants the same level of continued scrutiny that he has been under? He's guilty of being a goofball, but there are far worse players being given extra chances.

[Havok]

Outside of just being a solid receiver, he hasn't done anything.

What could the Niners have done with 72 receptions, 983 yards, and 9 more TDs from their receivers last year? Probably win the NFC West and make the playoffs and keep some coaching continuity for a change. He certainly wouldn't have made the team any worse.

[Elfdart]

Outside of just being a solid receiver, he hasn't done anything.

What could the Niners have done with 72 receptions, 983 yards, and 9 more TDs from their receivers last year? Probably win the NFC West and make the playoffs and keep some coaching continuity for a change. He certainly wouldn't have made the team any worse.

The problem isn't so much Owens' bitchy prima donna act, it's the fact that too many coaches and worse still too many QBs are too milquetoast to tell him to shut his face in the huddle or on the sidelines. Unless I had a 100% no bullshit coach or a quarterback who's an MFIC, I wouldn't have him on the roster.

Anyway, I keep hearing that you guys are going to be getting Kolb from the Eagles, and that either Carson Palmer or Marc Bulger is going to AZ. Supposedly, AJ Smith was working on a deal with Carolina for Steve Smith and making a run at Asomugha before the lockout was reinstated.