SD.Net goes Medieval

[Big Phil]

A fief full of philosophers?

Who is going to do all the labor?

We've got a large cross-section of people who are members of this board from ages of roughly fifteen or so to mid-forties, with the middle of the curve being biased towards the younger end of the population. A fair number of whom are most likely in quite good physical condition. We've got no shortage of labor. What we may have problems with are useful skills. I mean, sure we have programmers and engineers here, but our knowledge base means precisely jack without the framework of modern civilization supporting us. We have history buffs and military personnel here, and that will be helpful. What I don't think we have a lot of are people with trades that'd be useful in medieval Europe, like stonemasons, potters, blacksmiths, weavers, shepherds, and farmers.

A fair number of this board's members in good physical condition?

If you really think that, you're all fucked even quicker than Mike thinks.

And we're going to need farmers. In fact, most of the board's population is going to be involved in farming, since it will all have to be done with hand tools with some animal labor. And those who aren't farming are going to be busy with the upkeep of the town, and the and the creation of at least a basic system of running water (in short, ditch-digging, a lot of ditch-digging from that river,) so we can deal adequately with our own waste byproducts. And there will be there will have to be a cadre of folks responsible for interrogating board members and writing down their knowledge, since, to be perfectly honest, depending on how badly we fuck up our farming and how willing neighboring fiefdoms would be to trade with us, a not-insignificant fraction of the board's population will die from disease or starvation in the first few years, and there's zero guarantee that those with priceless, irreplaceable knowledge won't be among the dead.

What makes you think we'd get along, or agree on a plan of action? Me, I'd head for Spain or Italy and hope my Spanish skills would get me by. Of course I'd probably be dead before I got there, but that's better than hanging out in that godforsaken village. How many females would there be? Four? Five? Six? At least three married or engaged and at least one is a lesbian (that I know of). Death would be preferable

And since we're on the European mainland, and since whatever town we displaced is going to be large enough to be missed, and since I doubt there's anyone here who's good enough with Latin or the Frankish variants thereof to talk us out of trouble, the rest of us will either be dead or enslaved inside of a decade.

Quicker than that...

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Though it is repugnant, the possibility of raiding other communities for food and other necessities should not be left out of the equation.

Also, it should be known I'm not entirely stuck on Southern France as our location. If anyone has a better idea for the scenario (better meaning everyone doesn't just die or get enslaved immediately, since that's rather lame to strategize with) I'll move it. Palma islands, perhaps?

[darthkommandant]

It does not help us much that many members of this board are atheists homosexuals or otherwise undeserible by the church at this time. Adding in the greed of the local nobility for more land to this leads me guess is that we will be on the receiving end of a "crusade" of some sort within the 1st year we are there. If we get lucky and we arent out right conquered and enslaved most of us will probably die of disease and starvation. (based on mainland location.)

[Darth Servo]

No insulin = dead Servo.

Note where NUA emphasizes that there's an essentially infinite supply of insulin and other modern medications sufficient for whatever medical conditions any members may have.

Ah, missed that part.

[Wanderer]

*holds hand up* I have some basic knowledge of all that. I know there are several members here who have had experience with farm life and other stuff like that. Even my minimal experience would be something to start with, at least, not to mention whatever knowledge we can collate from everybody together. I can see several 'town meetings' being done to hammer out an action plan and assign duties, as well as to figure out what the fuck we all do know, and how to use it, however minimal it is.

Uh, even Organic Farmers are way beyond what medieval farmers had to work with. No steel plow, no knowledge of genetics, crop strains and animal breeds are vastly different, etc thing too numerous to list.

[Bertie Wooster]

I'm just curious, but if each member of the board liquidated their personal estate and converted the value of it to gold and silver and brought it back to this village, how wealthy would we be in terms of the economics of that time period?

I'm wondering this, because I have a substantial amount of silver bullion bars I keep in my house, which I could carry on my person as per:

EDIT: Any member has 24 hours to grab whatever they can carry on their person (including stuff in a backpack, etc.) and they will be transported along with that.

But I don't know how far 35 lbs of silver would get me in 750 AD.

[Big Phil]

I'm just curious, but if each member of the board liquidated their personal estate and converted the value of it to gold and silver and brought it back to this village, how wealthy would we be in terms of the economics of that time period?

You'd have gold, which nobody except (some) nobility and the church had. Pretty damned wealthy, I'd say.

[LadyTevar]

I'm just curious, but if each member of the board liquidated their personal estate and converted the value of it to gold and silver and brought it back to this village, how wealthy would we be in terms of the economics of that time period?

There would be Kings coming to beg for money.

If this scenario was to happen, I would grab every issue I could find of the SCA publications "Tournaments Illuminated" and Compleat Anachronist, both of which have various articles on medieval food, clothing, armor, houses, horses, etc. (Click link to see the long list of what is available. And no, #13: Period Pornography is NOT available anymore.)

With those as manuals and varous member's experiences with gardening and farming, we would get by better than you think. If we can cross the language barrier, our unwed men could wed a local girl and we can learn from her (and her family) even more skills.

[Ghost Rider]

Some level we might be okay, but how many of us would honestly not go batshit insane? I mean why could we be lords in China or Japan, or anywhere else really.

No modern conviences, death all around, squalid conditions, and oh yeah...we probably look rather ripe as targets for conquest.

[General Brock]

No insulin = dead Servo.

Note where NUA emphasizes that there's an essentially infinite supply of insulin and other modern medications sufficient for whatever medical conditions any members may have.

Servo and Sir Nitram are still dead, i suspect, unless this cache of drugs includes the relevant medical technology and this board has the trained doctors, technicians and resources needed to use and maintain them, including gas and electrical generators.

Unless this starts out like Knife's fanfic Battle of the Hymn in the archive, I'm off to China to enjoy the height of the Tang Dynasty, or joining Wanderer in his quest to get back to the Americas, where there are at least cocoa beans.

Either way, there is no way I'm passing as a Frank in 750, and there are better parts of the world to be living in that time period.

[Wanderer]

Unless this starts out like Knife's fanfic Battle of the Hymn in the archive, I'm off to China to enjoy the height of the Tang Dynasty, or joining Wanderer in his quest to get back to the Americas, where there are at least cocoa beans.

Just so you know, if things go bad, no hard feelings, just business, I do have my wife and kids to take care of as I'm assuming they are along for the ride.

So charter a different ship.

[Pelranius]

Wouldn't it be more ideal to go to Muslim Spain or Baghdad, where they at least won't burn you for practicing math, as our Emperor put it that way?

And I think some of the Moorish cities had plumbing, I just can't remember when they got it.

[CDiehl]

There would be Kings coming to beg for money.

Unfortunately, that gains us nothing. Medieval kings had a very poor record on repaying loans, so once they get our money, we can count on not getting it back. Also, even if we somehow get the loans repayed, forget making a profit from it, because charging interest on a loan was considered usury. In addition, why would they borrow money from us when they can march into our town and take it, either by taxation or by force?

I'm off to China to enjoy the height of the Tang Dynasty, or joining Wanderer in his quest to get back to the Americas, where there are at least cocoa beans.

Good luck with all that. What makes you think either locale is going to be any better than France? Even if you somehow get to China, you're not going to be anyone important, and peasants there had it as bad or worse than the French of this time.

Edit:

Wouldn't it be more ideal to go to Muslim Spain or Baghdad, where they at least won't burn you for practicing math, as our Emperor put it that way?

And I think some of the Moorish cities had plumbing, I just can't remember when they got it.

While they may not set us on fire for learning math or science, they will kill nearly all of us for not following the Koran, and they'll probably drop a wall on the gay members of our crew; Muslims didn't tolerate heresy or homosexuality any better than Christians. What few Muslims we may have among us could still be killed for not practicing Islam in the way they consider right. As for plumbing, I imagine they picked it up from conquering regions that had been part of the Roman Empire. However, by our standards, the plumbing is still primitive, with lead pipes bringing in water, no filtering, no sewage treatment. Also, even with plumbing, people all over the civilized world at this time live in conditions we would find intolerably filthy and disease-ridden.

[Flagg]

I'm dead in record time, due to the vast number of things wrong with my body and brain.

Yeah I'm with you, though I'll bypass that and just find a really high cliff to jump off of.

[Flagg]

I'm just curious, but if each member of the board liquidated their personal estate and converted the value of it to gold and silver and brought it back to this village, how wealthy would we be in terms of the economics of that time period?

There would be Kings coming to beg for money.

More likely we would be branded heretics, and the Kings armies would be paying us a very painful visit. The more I think about it, the more my high cliff idea seems like the best choice.

[General Brock]

Unless this starts out like Knife's fanfic Battle of the Hymn in the archive, I'm off to China to enjoy the height of the Tang Dynasty, or joining Wanderer in his quest to get back to the Americas, where there are at least cocoa beans.

Just so you know, if things go bad, no hard feelings, just business, I do have my wife and kids to take care of as I'm assuming they are along for the ride.

So charter a different ship.

China it is, then. No-way I'm going to convince the vikings to sail westwards without a caucasian to front the project.

Good luck ducking the slavers.

[CDiehl]

More likely we would be branded heretics, and the Kings armies would be paying us a very painful visit.

They wouldn't even need heresy as an excuse, not that they won't take it. We just have no ability to defend ourselves, since I can't imagine any of us have the kind of training and experience with melee combat that a typical medieval soldier had. It wouldn't even be shooting fish in a barrel. It would be knocking the barrel over and waiting for the fish to suffocate.

[General Brock]

I'm off to China to enjoy the height of the Tang Dynasty, or joining Wanderer in his quest to get back to the Americas, where there are at least cocoa beans.

Good luck with all that. What makes you think either locale is going to be any better than France? Even if you somehow get to China, you're not going to be anyone important, and peasants there had it as bad or worse than the French of this time.

I probably wouldn't make it that far either. But looking Chinese will help me a lot more in Asia then south Europe. North America is sparsely populated; I could live off the land or get help from a friendly Aboriginal.

[Darth Fanboy]

My plan would be to attempt to get the fuck out of Europe, preferably to somewhere where ther earen't much in the way of known powers. Not so much that I fear death, but this is at a terrible time where most of Europe thinks that bathing isn't cool (still isn't in France.)

From then on, i'd fish (plenty of them at this point and not nearly as many contaminated supplies, add a little fire and you have plenty of great dinners) and build a nice place to live. And if I found a remote enough place i'd relax knowing i'd never pay another bill again.

If there is a way to reach the new world i'd do it. But instead of genocide i'd warn everyone (somehow or another) about the white devils heading from the other side of the ocean in a few hundred years.

How easy would it be though to get in the good graces of a lord by developing technology for him. Any of these Lords with enemies they want crushed isn't going to lynch someone who can give them the hammer they need to smite neighboring kingdoms. Claim its a gift of knowledge from the heavens if necessary.

Another thought, even the English language is different from modern English at this point isn't it? So even the English speaking members of the board are boned in terms of interacting with the locals aren't we?

And one last further thought. Won't the life expectancy drop as such without modern medicine that long term plans are going to be even more hard pressed?

[General Brock]

My plan would be to attempt to get the fuck out of Europe, preferably to somewhere where ther earen't much in the way of known powers. Not so much that I fear death, but this is at a terrible time where most of Europe thinks that bathing isn't cool (still isn't in France.)

From then on, i'd fish (plenty of them at this point and not nearly as many contaminated supplies, add a little fire and you have plenty of great dinners) and build a nice place to live. And if I found a remote enough place i'd relax knowing i'd never pay another bill again.

If there is a way to reach the new world i'd do it. But instead of genocide i'd warn everyone (somehow or another) about the white devils heading from the other side of the ocean in a few hundred years.

How easy would it be though to get in the good graces of a lord by developing technology for him. Any of these Lords with enemies they want crushed isn't going to lynch someone who can give them the hammer they need to smite neighboring kingdoms. Claim its a gift of knowledge from the heavens if necessary.

Another thought, even the English language is different from modern English at this point isn't it? So even the English speaking members of the board are boned in terms of interacting with the locals aren't we?

And one last further thought. Won't the life expectancy drop as such without modern medicine that long term plans are going to be even more hard pressed?

Yes, a sniffle could herald death from pneumonia, a sliver, death from blood poisoning, unless you stayed close to the drug cache and it wasn't sacked by the locals, and someone knows how to administer them. Any serious physical injury like a broken leg would likely doom one as well, especially a body not adapted to pre-industrial conditions. Any kind of food poisoning could lead to death by dysentry, any allergic reaction would lack a 911 emergency response team, and malnutrition would catch up and hit like a sledgehammer. If you're lucky you'll die quickly in a worthy battle and not suffer from a stupid accident. Dying peacefully of old age in a warm, comfortable bed is going to be a bit of a long shot.

[ArmorPierce]

Going to North America you might bring a host of diseases along with you. The natives would probably put two and two together and decide that you're a heathen bringing a curse over the village and get rid of you one way or another.

[Darth Fanboy]

Going to North America you might bring a host of diseases along with you. The natives would probably put two and two together and decide that you're a heathen bringing a curse over the village and get rid of you one way or another.

*Might* I'd rather take my chances there if possible. But I doubt the transportation would work out for me anyway as my nautical skills are lacking more than they should.

[Zor]

Anyone who is even CONSIDERING leaving on a ship should realise the facts about the 18th Century Royal Navy, namely were the vast majority of the death were from, disease. This is before the fact that we have not ships for this option in the first place and it will take considerable resources and manpower to build one, let alone a fleet.

Since we can bring stuff along, we should gather as many books on technological development possible. This will be nessisary in the longrun. As well as firearms and ammunition, early on these will be the only thing that could allow us to even HOPE of standing up to hoards of proto-knights.

Second, we should look into producing black powder, muskets, cannon, trebuchet and crossbows as soon as possible so we can make an alliance with some locals/working as mercenaries and try to get our hands on some emperor damned serfs and slaves for manpower and establish ourselves as a citizen class over them (while letting some of said underclass joining so we don't end up going the way of the Spartiate). While such inequality is horrible by our standards, with said manpower WE can focus on things other than farming, namly production of weapons, becoming officers in a standing army, sanitation (this is big), clean water, training and education. If that happens and we manage to avoid attacks/defeat invasions, we can begin conquest and establishment of an empire with our technoligcal advantages after a decade or two.

Zor

[Exmoor Cat]

I'd be happy as Larry with (almost) Home Team advantage, plus can get away with basic engineering skills, basic military skills (from extensive wargaming in this period, and reserves experience) and my infamous mead brewing (got 11 gallons in barrel at the moment).

PS if aiming at 750AD in Southern France, you WON'T have Charlemagne or Carloman, but their father, Pippin the Short.

[Lonestar]

There would be Kings coming to beg for money.

Unfortunately, that gains us nothing. Medieval kings had a very poor record on repaying loans, so once they get our money, we can count on not getting it back. Also, even if we somehow get the loans repayed, forget making a profit from it, because charging interest on a loan was considered usury. In addition, why would they borrow money from us when they can march into our town and take it, either by taxation or by force?

We have 24hrs to pack stuff and bring it back, right? Guess I'm bringing my Boom-stick. I sugget you all do the same.

(and wilderness survival merit badge book )