For those that have read the comic, so close yet so far, and we have now veered well off the track.
For those that have not read the comic and are curious - MAJOR SPOILER WARNING WARNING Spoiler
Shane did draw down on Rick and was in the act of pulling the trigger when Rick's son shoots and kills Shane.
The scene that we got was a god damn cock tease, I was expecting Carl to be behind Shane and have him fire, but nope. Instead we have left the paper and are going who knows where
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-11-30 02:19pm
by Skylon
I've liked the show up to this one. I'll keep watching, as the end at least perked me up, but overall there was waaaaay too much melodrama in this episode. This was all about lingering on two characters that frankly, only five episodes in, we could not get too attached to. This was badly written, cliched....just a turd.
Again, the first four episodes have been good, so I'll keep watching, and hope the fuck-up was just this one episode.
Deadline Hollywood is reporting that despite the success of AMC's The Walking Dead TV series, that Executive Producer Frank Darabont is letting go of his writing staff.
Quote:
I hear The Walking Dead writer/ executive producer/ director Frank Darabont has let go of the writers on the hot freshman AMC series, which has already renewed for a second season. That includes Darabont's No. 2, writing executive producer Charles “Chic” Eglee. Writer turnover on series between seasons is commonplace but wholesale overhauls are unusual. What's more, I hear Darabont is looking to forgo having a writing staff for the second season of Walking Dead altogether and assign scripts to freelancers.
Weird. Weirder considering one of the writers is Darabont himself and another is series creator Robert Kirkman.
this could be good, or it could kill of what could have been a great show. Time will tell.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-01 09:11am
by Zixinus
Likely will kill it. Writers changing suddenly mid-way are never a good thing mid-story.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-01 04:12pm
by Skylon
Zixinus wrote:Likely will kill it. Writers changing suddenly mid-way are never a good thing mid-story.
As stated, this could go either way. The last episode wasn't that good, and the zombie attack on the camp in the episode before that hinged on a massive gap in logic. So, this may have been the correct call.
Plus, with a mere six episode first season, there really isn't much baggage to the show.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-01 11:30pm
by Alyeska
I find it funny people are bitching at the writers being fucking idiots. The first season is the Graphic Novel. It is my understanding they are following it very closely. Which means the conventions people blame on the writers are part of the source material itself.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-02 01:32am
by Flagg
Alyeska wrote:I find it funny people are bitching at the writers being fucking idiots. The first season is the Graphic Novel. It is my understanding they are following it very closely. Which means the conventions people blame on the writers are part of the source material itself.
Nope. It branches out pretty severely.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-02 04:02am
by Pulp Hero
Stuff about the comic that I don't like, it might apply to the show down the road. Spoiler
For you guys who think the survivors are acting stupid now, wait until the Prison battle.
To sum it up for those who haven't read the comics, the survivors find a prison complex, clear it out, and begin living there. It's a pretty sweet setup- triple fences on the perimeter, big buildings, stocks of food, a farmer who works the land inside the complex, and even a generator for very limited power.
A group of a few of the survivors later encounters an "evil town" who's Governor decides he wants the prison for himself. The survivors escape and return the prison and tell the rest of the group that a large well armed (the town raided a National Guard post, and has assault rifles, trucks, nightvision, etc.) is looking for them, and while they don't know the prison's location its only a matter of time before they are found and have to fight.
At this point I'm thinking, "Sweet, this comic is about to go Mad Max and have some full on post-apocalyptic warfare." and eagerly wait to see how the survivors prepare for war.
They do nothing. I mean they have a few token sessions of shooting practice, and after about a month without being attacked, they decide to get some leftover National Guard hardware for themselves.
But they do shit to prepare themselves. So when the Evil Town Army shows up, the survivors are completely caught off guard and only saved from the initial attack by the fact that one of their people is a sniping expert and that the Evil Town Army was mostly untrained and had no plan other than mass attack.
The Evil Town Army pulls back to regroup from their failed attack. In that small window, the survivors assemble some passable defences, but some are so spooked by their total lack of planning that they leave (the group that leaves includes their best rifle shooter and two of the midgrade shooters).
The survivors lose two more good fighters for their defense before the Evil Town attack again. Even so, they were doing okay until the Evil Town rammed the outer gate and let its army flood in and outnumber the survivors.
So what pissed me off was the total lack of preparation by the survivors beforehand. I didn't expect them to be tactical experts or anything (and I doubt they could have planned for the enemy having a Bradley), but there were some really obvious things like barricading the guard tower they used as a sniper position. That was probably the most important position in the prison, and the survivor who was a sewing master could have sewn up some sandbags out of prison clothes and that tower could have been made impenetrable to scattered assault rifle fire.
There was a garage full of abandoned cars that could have been moved outside to make some cover. If they really wanted to get ready, the farmer (Hershel) could have helped and used his plow to break up the dirt near the entrances and they could have made of couple of foxholes/trenches.
Of course, this is on top of other stupidity like going to an abandoned Wal-Mart and picking up things like baby cribs and canned food (even though they already have plenty and a working farm), but no one thinks to raid the home improvement section for piles of duct tape or batteries, or electronics for flashlights and walkie talkies.
Same thing with the RV. Allen talks to his girlfriend about gassing and loading it up and just leaving the other survivors. When he said that I was thinking, "What, why don't you always have it gassed and stocked up."
These people are just incapable of thinking ahead or learning from their mistakes.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-02 04:18am
by weemadando
Pulp Hero wrote:
These people are just incapable of thinking ahead or learning from their mistakes.
Congratulations, you've just written the character bio for every character in every piece of zombie fiction ever as well as identifying the core plot mechanic, conceits and what some would claim as "the theme" of the piece.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-02 04:21am
by Pulp Hero
weemadando wrote:
Pulp Hero wrote:
These people are just incapable of thinking ahead or learning from their mistakes.
Congratulations, you've just written the character bio for every character in every piece of zombie fiction ever as well as identifying the core plot mechanic, conceits and what some would claim as "the theme" of the piece.
I know and accept it, I love zombie fiction, but goddamn it would be nice if at least one story dwelled on another theme so the survivors wouldn't have to be so stupid all the time.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-02 02:42pm
by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba
I don't think you guys watch many AMC shows.
'Uggh why is Don Draper ignoring his wife's demands and making increasingly dangerous snap decisions! Him getting knocked out in a hotel room by a couple of proto-hippies is his own damn fault! Why does Pete keep being a knee-jerk antagonist to potential allies whenever he's jealous! SOOO STUPID! I CAN'T WATCH THIS!'
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-02 03:25pm
by Gunhead
I hadn't even heard of AMC before watching this series. I don't think it's a bad thing really that the writers are not following the comics to letter. What works as a comic might not work as a TV show.
The comic is just as much a bog standard zombie apocalypse thing as the TV show has been so far, so by not following the comic to the letter at least there's a chance they come up with something original. A very small chance from what I've seen so far.
-Gunhead
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-02 05:36pm
by Zixinus
I know and accept it, I love zombie fiction, but goddamn it would be nice if at least one story dwelled on another theme so the survivors wouldn't have to be so stupid all the time.
If they weren't stupid from time to time, they wouldn't be human.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-02 08:21pm
by Stofsk
weemadando wrote:
Pulp Hero wrote:These people are just incapable of thinking ahead or learning from their mistakes.
Congratulations, you've just written the character bio for every character in every piece of zombie fiction ever as well as identifying the core plot mechanic, conceits and what some would claim as "the theme" of the piece.
Just once I'd like to read a book or watch a film where the genre conventions I hate get thrown out by the creators who want to do something original and bold.
Maybe I'm just naive?
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-02 08:32pm
by Erik von Nein
Well, there is Zombieland, where even if the characters do something stupid they're still stupidly good at managing to survive. Somehow.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-02 10:48pm
by Stofsk
Erik von Nein wrote:Well, there is Zombieland, where even if the characters do something stupid they're still stupidly good at managing to survive. Somehow.
Zombieland's a comedy though (yeah yeah I know, stating the obvious). When the girls go up on that elevator chair ride thingy you just know the makers of the film are making fun of the horror cliche of stupid people running from the monster/serial killer/whatever and go up an attic where there's like only one exit (and thus they get trapped and die horribly).
This show is supposedly a Serious Drama. Except five episodes in the drama shit doesn't work and the only character I'm rooting for is the racist redneck asshole with the crossbow.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-03 10:27am
by Zixinus
I don't really follow. Yes, they do stupid shit sometimes but human stupid shit. Like denial or pursuing futile hopes.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-03 11:13am
by Akhlut
Stofsk wrote:
Erik von Nein wrote:This show is supposedly a Serious Drama. Except five episodes in the drama shit doesn't work and the only character I'm rooting for is the racist redneck asshole with the crossbow.
Except for the cops and possibly racist redneck asshole, which of the characters would really have a reason to know what the hell they're doing? And, hell, even with the cops, Shane is apparently going a little crazy from having his best friend come back and thus breaking up his new family that he made with Rick's wife and son, while everyone else is dealing with shit like Ed being a complete jackoff wife-beater. This is on top of what must be an enormous case of PTSD for everyone with everyone trying to capture some semblence of what life used to be like (thus, people sleeping in tents alone without a weapon or using the bathroom by themselves). Thus, their stupid actions are understandable.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-03 03:48pm
by Zixinus
My point exactly: these people are not zombie-savy. They are not trained, professional military operators who are taught not only to cope with the situation, but how to make the best of it.
It's easy to scream "don't hang over her, you stupid bitch, she's been bitten!" when it's not your sister that just died. Or think about constant precautions and security when you just survived what may be several weeks of hell.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-03 04:07pm
by Skylon
Gunhead wrote:I hadn't even heard of AMC before watching this series. I don't think it's a bad thing really that the writers are not following the comics to letter. What works as a comic might not work as a TV show.
The comic is just as much a bog standard zombie apocalypse thing as the TV show has been so far, so by not following the comic to the letter at least there's a chance they come up with something original. A very small chance from what I've seen so far.
-Gunhead
More reason that they cannot, and indeed maybe should not follow the comic exactly is that the book is still ongoing and has no end in sight. Why tie yourself down to what is in the comics when it could go a direction you as a TV producer/writer/studio exec don't want your show to?
That's like expecting the early 40's Superman radio show to follow the earliest Superman comics, plot by plot.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-03 09:17pm
by Stofsk
Akhlut wrote:
Stofsk wrote:
Erik von Nein wrote:This show is supposedly a Serious Drama. Except five episodes in the drama shit doesn't work and the only character I'm rooting for is the racist redneck asshole with the crossbow.
Except for the cops and possibly racist redneck asshole, which of the characters would really have a reason to know what the hell they're doing? And, hell, even with the cops, Shane is apparently going a little crazy from having his best friend come back and thus breaking up his new family that he made with Rick's wife and son, while everyone else is dealing with shit like Ed being a complete jackoff wife-beater. This is on top of what must be an enormous case of PTSD for everyone with everyone trying to capture some semblence of what life used to be like (thus, people sleeping in tents alone without a weapon or using the bathroom by themselves). Thus, their stupid actions are understandable.
No they're not. They have a look out during the day and every other day prior to that episode (old guy who sits on top of the RV with a rifle and binoculars) and they even had Shane tell wife-beater to take his fire down a notch in order to not attract any potential attraction from the walkers (meaning they're well-aware of the problem their camp faces). They clearly understand it's important to have someone watching out for all of them. They inexplicably decided not to the one time when they should have been on high alert - because four able-bodied men left the camp to retrieve another member left behind in the city as well as recover a bag of guns, and because they had recently found a walker a stone's throw away from their camp. The drama doesn't work if the characters decide to be retards for no reason.
You don't need to have military training or read the Zombie Survival Guide or whatever. That's absurd. We're talking basic precautions that were already being taken earlier in the show, but weren't for this one occasion.
Similarly, the idea that you can park a van and leave it for a few hours only to return to it and see that it's been stolen - and then assume it was by the guy you came to rescue, who has only one hand because he sawed off the other one - is such a blatant slap in the face that it's unbelievable. Episode 4 stinks.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-04 10:33am
by aieeegrunt
It is indeed fucking stupid, but people are like that. I think it was a case of them being tired of constant vigilance, and wanting to just relax and have a night similar to their old life. You can see the bullshit rationalism starting earlier in the episode when the hispanic guy claims that the rock wall he built around the fire would allow them to have a "real" fire for once, and now they can cook up all that fresh fish the girls caught and have a real fish fry. Old Man Guard may have gotten tired of being the only one on watch and just wanted a night off, it's only one night and the fire is shielded right?
It sounds stupid to somebody posting on an internet forum from a nice warm house stocked with food that can be cooked properly and eaten at will, sleeping in a nice warm bed with no threat of being eaten in your sleep to interrupt your rest. For a bunch of spoiled First Worlders who's society has just fallen apart, who've been eating canned goods and the occasional squirrel, sleeping fitfully or not at all in tents, no TV or xboxs or Facebook or Twitter or any of the normal First World lifestyle activities, ya I can totally see them saying "fuck it" and "we deserve a night off". Stupid? Yes. Could I see a group of random First World civvies doing this? Absolutely.
For me the jump the shark stupidity was the episode with Crazy Scientist, but as always YMMV.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-04 01:06pm
by Gunhead
I can understand people doing stupid things, but my biggest problem was how they made it so damn obvious. "Look all the men are away and they build a big fire to fry fish, I sure do hope no zombie sees that and comes for a snack." "Oh poop, zombies came and ate several of the survivors now feel sorry for them you heartless bastards". Drama forced by writer fiat is shit.
-Gunhead
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-04 06:07pm
by Akhlut
Gunhead wrote:I can understand people doing stupid things, but my biggest problem was how they made it so damn obvious. "Look all the men are away and they build a big fire to fry fish, I sure do hope no zombie sees that and comes for a snack." "Oh poop, zombies came and ate several of the survivors now feel sorry for them you heartless bastards". Drama forced by writer fiat is shit.
-Gunhead
However, with some of the most competent guys actually out and about trying to do their thing may have allowed such a situation to happen. Yeah, it wasn't smart to take out all the best people to Atlanta and then they do stupid shit when their van gets stolen, but I imagine they would have been more keen to still have sentries in place or something.
Re: The Walking Dead!
Posted: 2010-12-04 07:01pm
by Vympel
Do they ever bother to explain just how the zombies attacked the camp? I specifically remember they had the camp ringed with wire and bottles that made noise - what, did the zombies crawl under it?