Thank you to the Mods

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Straha
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Straha » 2019-09-07 01:49pm

... did... did she actually say Blackistan?
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Elheru Aran » 2019-09-07 03:12pm

Straha wrote:
2019-09-07 01:49pm
... did... did she actually say Blackistan?
A quick search returns only this thread, so either we're spelling it wrong, the search is wonky, it's hidden in one of the private subforums, or it got lost in one of the various moves the board has made in the past... geez, 18? odd years.

EDIT: Or she said it somewhere else, which is possible enough as there used to be a fair degree of overlap between us and SB for example.
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Ralin » 2019-09-07 07:09pm

No, but that's pretty much what was implied

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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Straha » 2019-09-07 08:57pm

There's a huge difference between the Black Nationalism of, say, Stokley Carmichael or the Black Panther Party and the 'black nationalism' of the ilk like Richard Spencer. Well I object to both, the former has a logical coherence to it that makes a lot of sense from an anti-Racist perspective, the latter is (obviously) horrifying.

Given the ilk she hangs out with on that board (and a quick skim of the posts on that board), it's pretty clear it's more likely the latter than the former, but I'm genuinely curious how she would have spun both the idea and naming of it.
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'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan

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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by mr friendly guy » 2019-09-07 08:59pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2019-09-07 12:01pm
I don't remember when exactly Poe got kicked off, but honestly a lot of the modern status quo of the board is mostly because there isn't enough traffic through the board for the mod staff to really exert themselves.
From my recollection he got into some argument with Mike, then it degenerated into what personal insults was acceptable (I think it was on issues of weight loss, and Poe is a big man), and then Poe used a transphobic statement against the Duchess. At that point he voluntarily left rather than cop a ban. However he was still lurking and couldn't help himself posting on another thread to attack the board. At which point he got banned.

But your main point stands. A lot of the regular posters (I guess I am sort of semi regular) have been here enough times to know what is acceptable.
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Ritterin Sophia » 2019-09-07 10:59pm

mr friendly guy wrote:
2019-09-07 08:59pm
From my recollection he got into some argument with Mike, then it degenerated into what personal insults was acceptable (I think it was on issues of weight loss, and Poe is a big man), and then Poe used a transphobic statement against the Duchess. At that point he voluntarily left rather than cop a ban. However he was still lurking and couldn't help himself posting on another thread to attack the board. At which point he got banned.

But your main point stands. A lot of the regular posters (I guess I am sort of semi regular) have been here enough times to know what is acceptable.
Careful there. Knowing who Duchess is and remembering she's trans is doxing her.
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Ralin » 2019-09-07 11:47pm

Oooookay. I guess I owe you an apology Sophia. This is in fact significantly crazier and fascist-er than her older routines.

So, what's this about a cult?

EDIT:
Also why are those attached screenshots so illegible?

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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Straha » 2019-09-07 11:59pm

Rich of the self-described Fascist to describe other people as 'totalitarian', but hey, consistency has never been one of her big concerns. Also, cute to see her effectively admit she was using a sockpuppet that the posters on the board didn't seem to be aware of.
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Gandalf » 2019-09-08 02:58am

Elheru Aran wrote:
2019-09-07 03:12pm
Straha wrote:
2019-09-07 01:49pm
... did... did she actually say Blackistan?
A quick search returns only this thread, so either we're spelling it wrong, the search is wonky, it's hidden in one of the private subforums, or it got lost in one of the various moves the board has made in the past... geez, 18? odd years.

EDIT: Or she said it somewhere else, which is possible enough as there used to be a fair degree of overlap between us and SB for example.
I think this is the thread in question.

Amusingly, I wonder if Saxtonite took his username from Curtis Saxton, and if he ever found out that the guy was a racist nut?
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Ralin » 2019-09-08 03:40am

Yes that one, but it also came up in other threads afterwards

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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Darth Yoshi » 2019-09-09 02:41pm

Gandalf wrote:
2019-09-08 02:58am
I think this is the thread in question.

Amusingly, I wonder if Saxtonite took his username from Curtis Saxton, and if he ever found out that the guy was a racist nut?
Wait, Curtis Saxton's racist? When'd that happen?
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Darth Yan » 2019-09-09 02:56pm

Unfortunately yeah. On Facebook he's endorsed a lot of.....really ridiculous stuff. So great physicist but talks his ass out about a lot of other stuff.

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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Formless » 2019-09-09 03:19pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:
2019-09-09 02:41pm
Gandalf wrote:
2019-09-08 02:58am
I think this is the thread in question.

Amusingly, I wonder if Saxtonite took his username from Curtis Saxton, and if he ever found out that the guy was a racist nut?
Wait, Curtis Saxton's racist? When'd that happen?
Presumably he always was, but because everyone knew him for his Star Wars analysis and nothing else it came as a shock when Shroom and Alyrium showed off his arguments with Mike on Facebook back in 2017 proving that he's not only a racist, but has the full suite of bigoted, Faux News type opinions: homophobia, sexism, conspiracy theories, hell even climate change denial. So if you ever wondered where Shroom got that "Do you worship homosexuals?" quote that is currently in his sig, that's right from the mouth of Curtis Saxton. Word for word.

This doesn't effect the validity of the science he's done, of course, because none of the science he's done had to do with climatology or biology. :P
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by ray245 » 2019-09-09 04:00pm

Formless wrote:
2019-09-09 03:19pm
Darth Yoshi wrote:
2019-09-09 02:41pm
Gandalf wrote:
2019-09-08 02:58am
I think this is the thread in question.

Amusingly, I wonder if Saxtonite took his username from Curtis Saxton, and if he ever found out that the guy was a racist nut?
Wait, Curtis Saxton's racist? When'd that happen?
Presumably he always was, but because everyone knew him for his Star Wars analysis and nothing else it came as a shock when Shroom and Alyrium showed off his arguments with Mike on Facebook back in 2017 proving that he's not only a racist, but has the full suite of bigoted, Faux News type opinions: homophobia, sexism, conspiracy theories, hell even climate change denial. So if you ever wondered where Shroom got that "Do you worship homosexuals?" quote that is currently in his sig, that's right from the mouth of Curtis Saxton. Word for word.

This doesn't effect the validity of the science he's done, of course, because none of the science he's done had to do with climatology or biology. :P
Basically a good rule to follow is no matter how smart a person might seem, if they are talking about stuff outside the field of their expertise, treat them like how you treat a random person on the street saying stuff they don't quite understand. Just because someone is capable of thinking does not mean they would apply it to anything outside of their field.

But somehow I'm not really that surprised many of the ASVS old guards had a number of extremely distasteful views. The "good old days" of the internet really wasn't good at all once you dig deep into it.
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Dark Hellion » 2019-09-09 05:30pm

I was going through some old thread yesterday and realized how much SD.net has changed in the last decade. 10 years ago Ray was considered a troll/chewtoy that people would flame with impunity and Duchess was considered to be above criticism. Now Ray is one of the older and more respected(ish) members of the board.

Also, I realized I have been posting on this board for nearly half of my life at this point and am one of the oldest members left... Crazy to think about.
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Ralin » 2019-09-09 07:43pm

Formless wrote:
2019-09-09 03:19pm

Presumably he always was, but because everyone knew him for his Star Wars analysis and nothing else it came as a shock when Shroom and Alyrium showed off his arguments with Mike on Facebook back in 2017 proving that he's not only a racist, but has the full suite of bigoted, Faux News type opinions: homophobia, sexism, conspiracy theories, hell even climate change denial.
And also a bunch of weird idiocentric ones like the whole silverback gorilla/office harem thing.

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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by ray245 » 2019-09-10 09:15am

Dark Hellion wrote:
2019-09-09 05:30pm
I was going through some old thread yesterday and realized how much SD.net has changed in the last decade. 10 years ago Ray was considered a troll/chewtoy that people would flame with impunity and Duchess was considered to be above criticism. Now Ray is one of the older and more respected(ish) members of the board.

Also, I realized I have been posting on this board for nearly half of my life at this point and am one of the oldest members left... Crazy to think about.
I was a freaking teenager back in 2004/5, in middle/high school, so I have plenty of dumbass moments back then. What is disappointing is members who were in their 20s back in 2003 had become middle-aged people voicing unsavoury views nowadays.
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Ralin » 2019-09-10 09:39am

ray245 wrote:
2019-09-10 09:15am
What is disappointing is members who were in their 20s back in 2003 had become middle-aged people voicing unsavoury views nowadays.
Look man, are you saying that women don't naturally form informal harems around successful older men in the workplace while leaving the younger, less alpha males high and dry? Because that's just basic science.

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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by ray245 » 2019-09-10 02:36pm

Ralin wrote:
2019-09-10 09:39am
ray245 wrote:
2019-09-10 09:15am
What is disappointing is members who were in their 20s back in 2003 had become middle-aged people voicing unsavoury views nowadays.
Look man, are you saying that women don't naturally form informal harems around successful older men in the workplace while leaving the younger, less alpha males high and dry? Because that's just basic science.
Who said that???
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Elheru Aran » 2019-09-10 03:01pm

ray245 wrote:
2019-09-10 02:36pm
Ralin wrote:
2019-09-10 09:39am
ray245 wrote:
2019-09-10 09:15am
What is disappointing is members who were in their 20s back in 2003 had become middle-aged people voicing unsavoury views nowadays.
Look man, are you saying that women don't naturally form informal harems around successful older men in the workplace while leaving the younger, less alpha males high and dry? Because that's just basic science.
Who said that???
He's pulling your leg. That was Saxton's office silverback gorilla theory.
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Ralin » 2019-09-10 07:48pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2019-09-10 03:01pm
He's pulling your leg. That was Saxton's office silverback gorilla theory.
I've only seen parts of it, so I'm filling in some of the details, but I think I got the gist.

You see Ray, Saxton's advanced degrees in Physics have made him a natural expert on all fields of human endeavor. You've probably noticed similar things happening with your university peers in the UK.

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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Darth Yan » 2019-09-11 03:45am

Kinda like William Shockley. I've seen people who were progressive in 08 become racist in 2018; I think it's because they don't like feeling like their being attacked. Conservatives have also gotten more rabid; I think it's due to their world changing and them not really being able to accept change as much as they'd like to think otherwise

(Supergirl of all things covers this. The antagonist of Season 4 seems like an open minded guy.....but there were hints of him having the potential to become bigoted. When he's told that his dad's employees (who tried to lynch alien workers) got off easy he seems upset because "they're good people", disregarding the fact that they you know tried to lynch people. When his dad's company is in financial straits it's pointed out that if his dad swallowed his pride and invested in the newer alien technology he could keep it afloat but he won't....and yet his dad blames Aliens for the fact his company is shut down. When Ben starts getting more radical he gets fired for his rhetoric and complains "I have a family I need this....." When he was warned MULTIPLE times to cut the bigoted rhetoric.)

A truly liberal person will be willing to consider that maybe their views are wrong and adjust as the world grows. I myself may well have become an angry alt righter if I'd had less self awareness and willingness to learn.

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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by ray245 » 2019-09-11 05:40am

Ralin wrote:
2019-09-10 07:48pm
Elheru Aran wrote:
2019-09-10 03:01pm
He's pulling your leg. That was Saxton's office silverback gorilla theory.
I've only seen parts of it, so I'm filling in some of the details, but I think I got the gist.

You see Ray, Saxton's advanced degrees in Physics have made him a natural expert on all fields of human endeavor. You've probably noticed similar things happening with your university peers in the UK.
Reminds me of this comic:

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Darth Yan wrote:
2019-09-11 03:45am
Kinda like William Shockley. I've seen people who were progressive in 08 become racist in 2018; I think it's because they don't like feeling like their being attacked. Conservatives have also gotten more rabid; I think it's due to their world changing and them not really being able to accept change as much as they'd like to think otherwise

(Supergirl of all things covers this. The antagonist of Season 4 seems like an open minded guy.....but there were hints of him having the potential to become bigoted. When he's told that his dad's employees (who tried to lynch alien workers) got off easy he seems upset because "they're good people", disregarding the fact that they you know tried to lynch people. When his dad's company is in financial straits it's pointed out that if his dad swallowed his pride and invested in the newer alien technology he could keep it afloat but he won't....and yet his dad blames Aliens for the fact his company is shut down. When Ben starts getting more radical he gets fired for his rhetoric and complains "I have a family I need this....." When he was warned MULTIPLE times to cut the bigoted rhetoric.)

A truly liberal person will be willing to consider that maybe their views are wrong and adjust as the world grows. I myself may well have become an angry alt righter if I'd had less self awareness and willingness to learn.
Well, that's partly what the alt-right movement was all about. It's about finding ways to get people to embrace the conservative ideology by reframing issues that might be more "acceptable" to people who might have once belonged to more liberal/progressive movement.

And let's not forget many people are in progressive movement merely as a marriage of convenience? It's useful to achieve certain goals and etc, but once those goals have been reached, they are no longer interested in being part of the progressive movement. So it's not the inherent progressive ideology itself that made it attractive for certain people, but what sort of rights progressives can push for and etc.

A truly liberal person will be willing to consider that maybe their views are wrong and adjust as the world grows. I myself may well have become an angry alt righter if I'd had less self awareness and willingness to learn.
I don't even many progressive in 2019 are able to do such a thing either. It's easy to get caught up in progressive issues of the day, especially when fighting for certain rights might give people a sense of belonging and etc. And that's how political coalitions are formed. Take Labour in the UK, which is a generally progressive faction that allied itself to the working-class, whom can hold certain less progressive views. Many working class don't vote for Labour because they really believed in LGBT rights ( they couldn't care any more or less about the issue as there is less right-wing church influence in the UK compared to the US), but because they believe Labour is less likely to fuck them over compared to the Tories.

Being liberal is making a strong effort to accept their current worldview is wrong, and be willing to accept they might be in a more privileged position and it being necessary to make things fairer for those who aren't as privileged. But it's just extremely difficult for anyone to admit they are wrong about a subject, no matter how well educated they are.

Being able to think critically about existing issue and offer a critique is one thing, being able to accept criticism is a skill that is relatively rare. People might say they are willing to accept criticism, when deep down inside they are extremely angry and feel personally attacked because of criticism.
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Dalton » 2019-09-11 07:22pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2019-09-07 12:01pm
I don't remember when exactly Poe got kicked off, but honestly a lot of the modern status quo of the board is mostly because there isn't enough traffic through the board for the mod staff to really exert themselves. 90, 95% of the conversation is between the same 20-30ish members who've been around here long enough to know what goes and what doesn't. If you check HoS, most of the last few flushed threads haven't been banning material, just more of the same old same old that went overboard, and usually the same few members involved. But Mike is MIA, Dalton doesn't really seem to care all that much anymore, and the mods don't need to do all that much so they don't care much either because the board is largely self-policing other than the odd newb screwing up (see a few recent necros in SF). About what it takes to actually get banned is to go full racist like cosmicalstorm, full troll like Kane Starkiller/JLTucker, or full idiot like Archinist. Most people don't quite go to that extent.
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Re: Thank you to the Mods

Post by Dalton » 2019-09-11 07:28pm

Gandalf wrote:
2019-09-07 08:14am
Ralin wrote:
2019-09-06 10:30am
Ziggy Stardust wrote:
2019-09-06 08:52am
Huh, I completely forgot about Duchess of Zion. Did she quit the board in a huff over something or other?
She was convinced she was about to be banned because people thought she was racist for advocating separate legal systems for different ethnic groups or something like that. I forget the exact details.
Someone from the Class of 2002 and ASVS fearing a ban? That's a new one.
They are not immune. They don't get special protection. I've banned at least one who thought otherwise.
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