My new (old) milling machine (56k die)

OT: anything goes!

Moderator: Edi

Post Reply
User avatar
LaCroix
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4804
Joined: 2004-12-21 12:14pm
Location: Sopron District, Hungary, Europe, Terra

My new (old) milling machine (56k die)

Post by LaCroix » 2019-07-11 10:52am

Rákosi Müvek M1
(Also known as Csepel or Kart)

Beefy little thing 800kg (1800lbs)

800x180 mm table, 480/180/480 XYZ motion, 6 speed power feed on X
12 speeds, 90-1800rpm
1.5 hp, Morse 3 spindle

Image

Image

Image

In surprisingly good shape, I've put a indicator to it while testing, and there is virtually no wobble on anything - the old owner (bought it back then from factory) kept it in really good shape. I'm pretty sure he did rebuild it at one point or another - because duh - 60+ year old machine - but expertly.

Pretty good haul - two boxes of tools, collets, whatnot, 3 vises, 2 dividing heads, a ton of horizontal arbors, as well. Paid less than a thousand dollars for it.

I was originally eyeing a Bridgeport, but being aware of my clinical pattern :mrgreen: , I could convince mayself that I did not really need a 1.5 ton machine that could mill 800mm pieces in one go, and it was more important that it would fit into the house (after finishing it). So no, this is not the final resting place, I hope to have it moved inside the actual house before winter.

I'll be posting some more pictures of me cleaning it up, draining/replacing all the fluids, and fixing the little things that need some love.
The dangly cable contraption in front, for example, is supposed some kind of a dual switch panel that can be attached to the spindle lever for auto-reverse, for tapping.
Will have to test that out once I got it wired up - I had to buy a 380V plug for it, because it still had the original bakelite factory plug.
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.

User avatar
Jaepheth
Jedi Master
Posts: 1053
Joined: 2004-03-18 02:13am
Location: between epsilon and zero

Re: My new (old) milling machine (56k die)

Post by Jaepheth » 2019-07-11 08:51pm

Nice find; I'm very jealous.

What do you plan on making?
Children of the Ancients
I'm sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary. Please rotate the phone by 90 degrees and try again.

User avatar
Rogue 9
Scrapping TIEs since 1997
Posts: 17935
Joined: 2003-11-12 01:10pm
Location: Classified
Contact:

Re: My new (old) milling machine (56k die)

Post by Rogue 9 » 2019-07-11 11:08pm

Is anyone actually still on 56k?

And very nice. :)
It's Rogue, not Rouge!

HAB | KotL | VRWC/ELC/CDA | TRotR | The Anti-Confederate | Sluggite | Gamer | Blogger | Staff Reporter | Student | Musician

User avatar
LaCroix
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4804
Joined: 2004-12-21 12:14pm
Location: Sopron District, Hungary, Europe, Terra

Re: My new (old) milling machine (56k die)

Post by LaCroix » 2019-07-12 05:15am

What are my plans? Of course, more knives and swords!

It's a really sturdy mill, and will do fine doing the rough shaping of my forged parts before all the tedious hand shaping starts.

I also plan to use it to build my power hammers and belt sander projects, and the mass production once I start rolling them out to customers :D.
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.

User avatar
InsaneTD
Jedi Knight
Posts: 646
Joined: 2010-07-13 12:10am
Location: South Australia

Re: My new (old) milling machine (56k die)

Post by InsaneTD » 2019-07-12 06:04am

I'd love to have a machine like that. Got no where to put it though. Look forward to seeing it worked on/with.
Rogue 9 wrote:
2019-07-11 11:08pm
Is anyone actually still on 56k?

And very nice. :)
Good warning for people in mobile.

User avatar
LaCroix
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4804
Joined: 2004-12-21 12:14pm
Location: Sopron District, Hungary, Europe, Terra

Re: My new (old) milling machine (56k die)

Post by LaCroix » 2019-07-16 10:01am

InsaneTD wrote:
2019-07-12 06:04am
I'd love to have a machine like that. Got no where to put it though. Look forward to seeing it worked on/with.
Thanks. That's why I went for it - the size (800kg) is getting quite rare - most machines that size are new chinamills, and they are waaaay less sturdy than this beast, and cost easily 5 times as much. it only needs 1.6 x1 m ( 5'5" x 3'4") of floor space, too.

General de-greasing and de-disgusting of the machine continues. Checked everything, and it still has grease in all to be greased parts, and oil in all to be oiled parts. Not much, but the gears are still touching the oil level, so there is still 'some' splash oiling going on. Need to track down the oil needed. And maybe look up how to clean out the witness window for level.

The coolant sump in the base (you can see the cover next to the knee screw and the pump on the 3rd pic) is full of some brownish liquid. The pump is running (at least making runny noises), but there is no flow... Either a clogged line, or something with the pump. Needs to be drained and cleaned, anyway. Maybe install a pre-filter at the table drain hole, for easier cleaning later on.

Delighted that this beauty of an antique plug (480V - there are just 3 phase connectors, nothing else) still is fine and in nice condition... But not on my watch...
Image

Next - The drawbar is simply a 'tie rod' - a bar with threads at both ends. I doubt this is the original.
The top of the quill has some threading too, and a hole far too big for a simple drawbar.
Seems there was either one, or a series of caps and drawbars for different sizes of MK3 tooling. (I already encountered two lengths in the set of tools I've dug through, already...)

Sooo... Project new plug is off the short list,
Project drawbar(s) and cap(s) jumps up to the top of it.

And somebody already asked me to make him an adapter for his telescope.

The short list is starting to grow quite long... :D
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.

User avatar
LaCroix
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4804
Joined: 2004-12-21 12:14pm
Location: Sopron District, Hungary, Europe, Terra

Re: My new (old) milling machine (56k die)

Post by LaCroix » 2019-07-21 02:50pm

COMMENCE PRIMARY SCRUBBING!

After a good scrubbing with acetone (small paintprush to really get into the nooks and crannies), and wiping the liquefied grime off with a paper towel before it re-solidifies, the original paint is emerging.
Seems it was light green under that brownish-green stuff. See bottom right for still uncleaned surface for color reference.
It's actually the original color, the single layer underneath it is some beige primer stuff, probably some automotive body filler.

Was able to clean up the speed selection plaque, a brief swipe of sanding immediately shone up the number, telling me it was etched not just painted. The brownish stuff covering it was most likely 70 year old clear coat...
As soon as everything is cleaned up and filled and repainted, I'll use a tiny brush to cold-blue the plaque background sections, and then shine the letters up once more and apply a new layer of clear-coat.

The first column is the horizonal arbor speeds, the second the vertical, and the last two the lever combinations.

The plaque for the table feed selection is missing, I cleaned the space (bottom right) up to make sure it was not just painted over. I do have a pattern of what it looked like, so I will etch a new one, later...
Image
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.

User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12021
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Vasa, Finland

Re: My new (old) milling machine (56k die)

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2019-08-02 10:38am

Nice, I have a Deckel FP2 myself
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.

User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12021
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Vasa, Finland

Re: My new (old) milling machine (56k die)

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2019-08-02 12:22pm

I found kerosene to be the main work horse when scrubbing dirty parts, also Cillit Bang the anti grease formulation worked well, but with kerosene one doesn't have to worry about rust as it leaves a protective film behind. A boiling hot lye bath though blow everything else out of the water by miles, I used that on smaller parts I just wasn't able to clean well enough wit kerosene and scrubbing, too many nooks and crannies, the lye bath also takes off any and all paint, I hosed them off with a pressure washer.

Nothing stops the lye method. Even the ultrasonic cleaner is playing second fiddle in comparison. But that's a dangerous method. Slightly safer is to use calcium carbonate or washing soda. Still eye protection is obligatory. Also not compatible with aluminum and might react badly with bronze and brass. That plaque would be obliterated too.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.

User avatar
LaCroix
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4804
Joined: 2004-12-21 12:14pm
Location: Sopron District, Hungary, Europe, Terra

Re: My new (old) milling machine (56k die)

Post by LaCroix » 2019-08-06 08:23am

Had some time and took on one of the dividing heads.
This one is a Danuvia TOF 100. (took some time to find it in the net)
40:1 ratio (40 cranks = 1 Spindle rotation)
Morse 3 spindle, 18mm bore.

Length axle to end of chuck = 40cm
Width (incl. crank) = 35cm
Height = 23cm

Weight = All of it.
Seriously, it's about 35kg without chuck.
There is a slightly bigger version, the 125, which is 5cm bigger in all dimensions and weights in at 65kg.
You will see in the pictures that this is a very compact design, very little empty space inside, so it's pretty close to being a "sperical mass of iron".


Image
Basic cleanup.
Standard layout, the keyed axle on the left will drive the whole spindle if you lock the crank in a hole and open the hold down screw (the knob to the left, on the painted section.).
There is some acessory (a plate with a slit, and some gears) that was lost that will allow this axle to drive the spindle directly via gears to allow helix turning - don't ask me how - I got myself a manual, but my Hungarian is not that good and it's a 50 page dissertation. :D Probably something

Image
The rear - some lever went missing no biggie, it's only for the spindle disengage...

Image
Divider plate - I have two plates, non-through drilled - sides are differentlynumbered with numbers up to 99.

Image
The bottom - the body is held down by two big clamping screws pulling the body down, and a set screw on the bottom right.
The thing in the middle of the body is a detent for the quick index.
It has a resting position 90° to the spindle it snaps into. Lift& tist to engage/disengage. Locks via V-shaped pin into a spur gear in the spindle.

The interior:

Image
Levers...
Bottom right clamps the spindle - very solid, no wiggle at all.
Middle one is locking the spindle engagement - you can rotate the assembly to change the meshing of the spindle and drive shaft. Spindle can rotate free.
The nuts I put the spanner on are the axis the assembly rotates around to disengage the drive. Needs new lever. to actually rotate it, spanner works for now.

Image
Drive shaft, the flange for the index plate is fixed to the body via the locking screw. Open that screw, and the shaft on the bottom left will drive everything (even the index plates will rotate at this setting) You can see the intermedate spur gear that allows the body to tilt around the drive input shaft, and that one drives (via worm drive) the spindle. Nice and tight.

Image
Manufacturer SZGTGY (maybe Szigeti Gepgyar = Csepel, don't know) type (TOF 100) and serial number (000255) on the inside.
Rather early in the production 255 - is not much. Maybe that's why it looks a bit different to the depictions in the manual I got.(locking screw was movend to the top, spindle mesh is a single lever in it)

Image
Rather well preserved markings for the tilt - the unit can go from -10 to +100 degrees , 0 reference is parallell to the table.

Image
Spindle has 24 quick index holes. At these positions the detent will snap into the spur gear and lock it down. The marker is indeed a "0" outlined with two lines - the actual meshing point to be slightly different depending how you put the spindle in, because the worm drive and the spur gear are not meshing 100% in each orientation. Therefore, there is an area wher the meshing will occur - for this one, until you remove and reassemble the spindle, it is currently about 2mm to the rear of center. Make your own sharpie mark... :D

Image
The crank has a free-spinning ring with a pin - if you need to move the prank for more than a few holes, it's easier to twist this lock than holt against the spring force. Another twist sends the pin back into the hole and the detent tip can be lowered into the plate hole.

Image
This is how big this thing really is - next to the fresh repainted vise.
Once I have settled on a similiar garish paint scheme, I might repaint the original ebony-greyish paintjob of the dividing head.

But only after I got a proper adjustable 4-jaw for it. Did some test cutting with it, squared the tip (10mm) of a round 25mm 4150 to 20mm for my powerhammer crankshaft build. The 3jaw holds fine at 1mm (40 thousands) DOC, but at 1.5mm it starts slipping.

I can face the same 25mm rod end in the vise with 2mm DOC - the machine can probably handle more, but I'm not quite there, yet. #cluckingnoises#
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.

Post Reply