FIFA World Cup Thread

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Hillary
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Hillary »

Modax wrote:Anyone seriously betting on Netherlands after what we saw today? Netherlands seemed to have enough trouble with Uruguay. Surely they will have to play the football of their lives to have a shot?
Spain seemed to have enought trouble with Paraguay. And Portugal. And Chile. And Switzerland. They've only scored 7 goals in 6 matches. Last night was the first game they played anything like as well as they can.

They are highly unlikely to thrash a very decent Dutch team, who have won all their games so far.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Thanas »

On the contrary. With Torres substituted for Pedro, they are finally playing a decent attack game.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Hillary »

Thanas wrote:On the contrary. With Torres substituted for Pedro, they are finally playing a decent attack game.
And yet they still only scored once. The Dutch are not going to roll over.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by LaCroix »

But I can't see then stealing the ball away from the Spanish, who are excellent in keeping it away from their foes. Spain will play the same efficient tactic like always, letting the other team run after the ball for what feels like decades, and then exploit one gap in the Dutch defense to score the one goal they need.

While I rooted, and still root for the Spanish (After all, I lived there for years, and Barca was my favorite), I'd rather see the games a bit more open and more duels for possession, instead this pinball-style where they pass the ball as soon as another player takes a step in their direction.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Twigler »

Thanas wrote:
There won't be a welcome home celebration. Mabye at the airport or a short celebration, but no huge party. They lost, after all.
you can still come third which is pretty respectable (and comes with a nifty paycheck as well). It's like earning a bronze medal in the Olympics. I know that half the Netherlands would be welcoming the team back if they came third. Now it'll probably be the whole country.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Siege »

Yeah, it can go either way but I definitely think the Spanish team are the favourite in this match. Although I wonder how Mark van Bommel will react to Spanish players trying to dance around him like they did against the Germans. Frankly if they do, I fully expect him to go "RARGH HULK SMASH!" somewhere halfway through the game and start annihilating players with unfortunately placed tackles :).
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by LaCroix »

And you can bet these players will use that to try and get him carded and sent to the showers early... The whole Spanish style is basically a ploy to annoy the other team as much as possible until they start making mistakes.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Crown »

EPL representatives left in World Cup.

Liverpool: Kuyt, Babel, Reina and Torres.
City: Silva and De Jong.
Arsenal: Van Persie and Fabregas

Manchester United: Howard Webb

:lol:
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Crown »

An interesting little read for anyone that cares, it's not 100% gospel, but it is largely (on broad strokes) true;
Financial Times wrote:How Van Gaal created a trio of pass masters

By Simon Kuper
Published: July 5 2010 22:43 | Last updated: July 5 2010 22:43

When you trace the roots of the winning teams of this football World Cup, every clue points to one man: Louis van Gaal. The flat-faced Amsterdammer who coaches Bayern Munich is the secret mastermind behind three of the four semi-finalists: Holland, Germany and Spain.

Of course van Gaal was only continuing the life’s work of his soulmate-cum-enemy, Johan Cruyff. The two men despise each other, but have almost identical football ideologies. Both grew up playing for their local club, Ajax, fetishising the pass.

Never pass into a teammate’s feet, lectured Cruyff, but always a metre ahead of him to keep the ball moving. When the first man passes to the second man, the third man must already be moving into space ready for the second man’s pass.

Cruyff became manager of Ajax in 1985 and moved to Barcelona in 1988. He transformed both clubs’ academies into universities of the pass. Later Van Gaal succeeded him, first at Ajax then at Barcelona. In Catalonia, Van Gaal promoted great passers such as Xavi and Andres Iniesta, who today run Spain’s midfield.

No wonder half the Dutch team here was raised at Ajax, or that seven Spanish players who finished Saturday’s quarter-final against Paraguay learned their football at Barca’s academy. Whether it is Xavi or Holland’s Wesley Sneijder, these players spent their youth absorbing Cruyffian ideology: football is about making passing “triangles”. Boys at Barca are forever playing four against four, with two touches allowed. It is a game you win through passing and positioning. Football as chess, not football as wrestling.

Germans had always treated football as a kind of chess in which wrestling was permitted. They delegated passing to a few specialists. But in 2000, when the Germans hit rock-bottom, they peered across the Dutch frontier. They began fetishising the pass. At Euro 2008 Germany reached the final, where Spain passed them off the park. Joachim Löw, Germany’s coach, thought: “I want a team like that.”

A year later, Van Gaal popped up as Bayern Munich’s manager, and fetishised the pass. The club that never cared how it won began playing Dutch-Spanish football. Van Gaal turned Bayern’s Bastian Schweinsteiger into a defensive midfielder, and stuck Thomas Müller in the first 11. Here in South Africa, “Schweini” and Müller are starring for Germany. Their teammates in Munich, Arjen Robben and Mark van Bommel, are starring for Holland.

German, Dutch and Spanish football have crossbred to become almost indistinguishable. The Germans pass like Holland in disguise. The Dutch defend and counterattack like Germans used to. Spain play like Holland circa 2000.

Other countries might note the things this trio does not worry about. The English media are calling for more spirit. Diego Maradona, Argentina’s manager, kept talking about passion. All that Van Gaalians ask is: “Can you pass at speed?” If you can, you are selected. That is why Germany can field their youngest team since 1934. Experience and physique are secondary. Sneijder, Xavi, Iniesta and Germany’s captain Philip Lahm are all 5’8” or smaller. But they understand passing.

Individual genius is strictly optional, too. The Brazilian and Argentinian geniuses are now on holiday. Most previews of this tournament focused on stars. Instead they should have focused on passing cultures. Every team touched by two ageing Amsterdammers stuck in a mutual loathing society is still here.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Thanas »

I wouldn't lay it all at van Gaal's feet. A lot of the credit for the German team goes to Thomas Schaaf, who as manager of Werder Bremen found Özil and trained him (and many others like Mertesacker and previously Klose etc.) to perfection.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Crown »

Thanas wrote:I wouldn't lay it all at van Gaal's feet. A lot of the credit for the German team goes to Thomas Schaaf, who as manager of Werder Bremen found Özil and trained him (and many others like Mertesacker and previously Klose etc.) to perfection.
Like I said; the broad strokes are there - the transition to a pass and move, possession football that all started with the Dutch - but the credit is slightly condensed too much.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Thanas »

Crown wrote:
Thanas wrote:I wouldn't lay it all at van Gaal's feet. A lot of the credit for the German team goes to Thomas Schaaf, who as manager of Werder Bremen found Özil and trained him (and many others like Mertesacker and previously Klose etc.) to perfection.
Like I said; the broad strokes are there - the transition to a pass and move, possession football that all started with the Dutch - but the credit is slightly condensed too much.
Bremen is also playing a very pass and move game focused on counter-football, though that has started ever since Schaaf took over, which was way before van Gaal ever set foot into Germany.

To be honest, I think this is a culmination of a general trend we are seeing here instead of something that is fixed on one or two trainers.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Wedge »

Very broad strokes.
I would never EVER give more credit to van Gaal than to Johan Cruyff, Luis Aragones (in Spain's case) or Pep Guardiola (in Barcelona). I would say that Cruyff was the first one to export (not create) that football philosophy from NL. The only credit I give Van Gaal is recognizing the talent of Müller and making him known in Germany so that he had the chance to be recruited for the WC and now the entire world knows him, ok and also making of Schweinsteiger a very useful player. Maybe Germany without van Gaal wouldn't have had such good players in this WC, nothing else. No Cruyff and Barça's and Spain's history would have been another. So more credit to Cruyff.
Besides without Guardiola no Iniesta like we know him now, van Gaal had NOTHING to do with Iniesta and Aragones influenced Xavi thousand times more than van Gaal. So again, I don't see any link between van Gaal and the success of current spanish players or even dutch players. Robben was a genius before going to Bayern München.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Bottlestein »

Very slight derailment: I always thought his name is "Cruijff" but everyone here spells it "Cruyff" - which is correct?
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Crown »

Bottlestein wrote:Very slight derailment: I always thought his name is "Cruijff" but everyone here spells it "Cruyff" - which is correct?
Cruijff is the proper way to spell his name but for some reason Cruyff has now stuck (perhaps only outside of Holland?).

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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Siege »

Yeah, everybody here writes his name "Johan Cruijff", which would be the correct way to spell it.

And to add one of His Cruijffness' many nearly Socratic snippets of wisdom that I hope our players will remember coming Sunday: "If we have the ball, they can’t score." Genius! :D
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by GuppyShark »

Chris Collingsworth's "Sometimes, if it's not a negative play, it's a positive play" remains my favorite pearl of sporting wisdom. ;)
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Siege »

And we're off for 3rd place. Here's to Deutschland. Go Mannschaft!
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Thanas »

To be honest, I don't much care for this game.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Soontir C'boath »

Both teams does seem to be sluggish in today's game. In the end though, I hope Germany wins. South Korea and Ghana must be avenged!
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

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Well, four of the german starting elf are not in today, so we play with reservists.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by nightwyrm »

Germany wins, but drama till the last second. Paul was right again.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

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Ah well. So we won.

I am not terribly enthusiastic about it. Same result as in 2006, so I am feeling rather underwhelmed. To be honest, I'd much rather have seen us loose to the Netherlands in the final than win the third place. Especially since it has now been 20 years without winning the world cup. Which means - next time we have to win. And what do we take from this world cup? Just the same lesson we learned in 2006 and in Euro 2008 - time to continue working. Problem is, you just cannot do this without eventually winning something.

So yeah - nothing much to celebrate, come to think of it.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Norade »

Thanas wrote:Ah well. So we won.

I am not terribly enthusiastic about it. Same result as in 2006, so I am feeling rather underwhelmed. To be honest, I'd much rather have seen us loose to the Netherlands in the final than win the third place. Especially since it has now been 20 years without winning the world cup. Which means - next time we have to win. And what do we take from this world cup? Just the same lesson we learned in 2006 and in Euro 2008 - time to continue working. Problem is, you just cannot do this without eventually winning something.

So yeah - nothing much to celebrate, come to think of it.
You're better off than any North American nation so that's something at least. Canada can't even qualify for the cup...
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by aerius »

Norade wrote:You're better off than any North American nation so that's something at least. Canada can't even qualify for the cup...
Yeah, but let's face it, Canadians for the most part don't give a shit about soccer, curling championships are more important to us, and let's not even talk about hockey.
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