So. . .I was toying around with the possibility of visiting another country next year, and I've got a few ideas in mind, with China being one of the top on my list. Unfortunately China is also one of the ones I know the least about outside of pop culture, and I was hoping to get some more input from people who are either living there or have visited before. I figure I'll be there for up to two weeks and will be able to see, maybe, two cities, possibly three.

So far Beijing is at the top of my list of cities, with obvious sites like the Temple of Heaven, the Forbidden City, and Great Wall being places I want to visit. But what else is there to see that might not be apparent? Anything of historical or religious significance is of interest, as are any cultural events I might be able to see. (Ideally, I plan to be going sometime between June & August).

The next sticky issue is I'm not sure which city to make my second or third stop. Shanghai and Hong Kong are the most obvious choices, maybe Guangzhou. I'm open to other possibilities but given I'll only be there for two weeks tops I'm not really sure which one would be the best use of my time. (Assume my budget isn't all that relevant, but I'd like to avoid the more obvious tourist traps and glitzy money sinks). This is obviously some ways off, but I'd like to get as much info as I can before hand. Any websites that could be handy would be nice too.

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"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

If you have the time going to Xi'an would be worthwhile, one of the nicest cities in China (e.g., think Kyoto to rest of Japan) and has tons of interesting historical and cultural aspects to see, especially the intact city wall surrounding it. Nanjing is another worthwhile city too. For more non-typical areas to visit, Kunming and Chengdu might be something to consider.

I saw some of the images of Xi'an on Wiki when I was browsing and it looked like it might be interesting but I haven't read into it too much. Any prominent landmarks that would be easy to look up I should know of besides the wall?

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"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

The Bell Tower and the Drum Tower are on the city center and are very well-known locations too, so they make excellent points of reference there.

I did China last year and here were my impressions.

Beijing: Must do the usual suspects (Temple of Heaven, Forbidden City, Great Wall) as they are all worth it. I wouldn't spend too much time in Beijing though as the night life, food and culture is just not that interesting.

Xi'an: A great city to visit as you can go see the Terracotta Warriors (neat, but not mind blowing) but more importantly you can rent a bike and bike on top of the city wall which was one of the best experiences I had while in China. The night life and food are also pretty good here.

Suzhou: Everyone goes here for silk and the canals, but I didn't find anything terribly special about Suzhou.

Shanghai: An incredibly beautiful city with tons of stuff to do and see, it is much more modern than Beijing or Xi'an. I highly recommend you spend a good deal of time here if you are interested in what Shanghai has to offer, but keep in mind that Shanghai is not about culture or history as much and is much more akin to an American metropolis.

I have been go Gaungxi. One of the poorer regions but its a tourist place so they will cater to you. Of course I went with a guided Singaporean tour so they knew all the places to go to, but if you are there Guilin is the city which gets the tourist.

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Avatar : British chef Gordon Ramsay. Say what you like about him, but the man is hell entertaining.

What would Gordon Ramsay do?
If you sautee scallops in a non stick pan, they won't stick. Thats why they're called NON STICK.

Imagine the worst qualities of North Melbourne supporters and Collingwood supporters combined into one huge thug, except with added boganness. That's Port for you. Except Port supporters are even worse.
"Lusankya" describing the Port Adelaide football club and their supporters.

Awesome. So far it's looking like Xi'an and Beijing are at the top of the list. I can probably scratch Shanghai off as I'm not too interested in the more modernized cities. . .maybe I can squeeze in a third city though, and I have to admit Hong Kong is tempting.

While I'm at it. . .does anyone have any helpful links on applying for Visas? I've found some stuff but I'm a bit sketchy on what's official and up to date and everything, so if I can save the leg work all the better. (Still haven't put in for a passport book yet, but I plan on doing that sometime in the next month or two given it can apparently take up to 6 months for processing. )

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"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

First let me laugh at you for wanting to visit China during summer. Pack plenty of deodorant.

If you want to go as a tourist, Shanghai's really not that great. It's got interesting stuff, but it's very Westernised, so it's not so great if you want the "China" experience.

Places I like:

Nanjing - If you're interested in 20th century Chinese history, this is really the place to be. It has Sun Yat-sen's mausoleum, the Presidential Palace of the Republic of China, as well as some nice lakes, gardens, and some Ming Tombs. It's actually quite a nice city: it's prosperous, so it shows of modern China quite well, but it doesn't have the international feel of somewhere like Shanghai. It's also near places like Suzhou, Hangzhou, Shanghai and it's an overnight train trip to Huangshan, which is said to be the most beautiful mountain in China. If you go to Nanjing, you should eat the duck's blood soup. It's a Nanjing speciality and is very tasty.

Luoyang - this is one of the ancient capitals of China and is situated in Henan. It's got a fair bit of interesting stuff, like the White Horse Temple, the Longmen Grottoes (which is where just about every Emperor ever had their Buddha statues carved), the temple to Guan Yu, and is a day trip to Songshan and the Shaolin Temple. The temple itself is actually rather commercialised, but the scenery around there is absolutely gorgeous. It was a shame that I didn't have more time when I visited, because it would have been lovely to spend more time on the mountain.

Qingdao - apart from the brewery, the city is actually quite beautiful. I haven't been there in ten years though, so I can't remember too much except that it was quite beautiful.

And I haven't been there, but Inner Mongolia's supposed to be fun. You can ride horses and camels and drink airag and so on.

Here's the embassy visa info: http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/hzqz/zgqz/t84246.htm I 'd advise you to check to see which consulate/embassy covers your city. I tried going to the Melbourne one first time I applied for my visa, and they got annoyed and told me to post it to Canberra, because apparently they're picky about that. And if you have a non-US passport it will be $100 cheaper, but remember the Chinese government will only allow you consular access to the government whose passport you use, because they don't recognise dual citizenship. The visa process is fairly simple, though. Last time I forgot to put a document in, and rather than making me go through everything again, they just rang me up and asked me to kindly send it to them so it could all be sorted out more quickly.

And now that I've finished, I'm going to laugh at you once more for going to Asia during summer. Remember to pack your deodorant.

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"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong

"Obviously, weather patterns would account for the lack of flowering plants in layers below the Cretaceous period. That's just common sense." - A creationist, not being sarcastic

"if the greco-roman statues were so awesome then they would not have had their penises chiselled off by the motherfucking christians"
-Shroomy

I saw Nanjing on the list but I wasn't really sure about that one. I'll definitely file that under "maybe".



Definitely another maybe.



Unfortunately Mongolia's not quite on the list given I'll only have enough time for two or maybe three cities. Depending on how well I manage to plan things anyway.



Okay, so that is the right site. I'll be stuck using a US passport unfortunately, but oh well.



Psht, I can deal with the heat, that doesn't bother me. Especially if it's anything like Las Vegas during the summer (which I've experienced). But I won't have the monies to actually go there until at least the summer, (which incidentally is when my birthday is, so it's kind of like an expensive birthday present to myself) so. . .

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"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

It's not the heat in China that's a problem - that's only around 30-36 degrees. It's the 90 humidity that screws you over. If you don't have work/school commitments, I'd recommend holding it off to late September, because the climate really is quite nice in autumn.

To be honest, I don't like Beijing too much, but if you do go there during summer, I could possibly get you in contact with one of my friends who works there as a tourist guide sometimes. She will fuss and worry and talk too much, but I can that not only will she be honest with you, but will also make sure all the peddlers and so on treat you fairly as well.

Oh, and if you decide to travel by train between any cities, let me know, because I am awesome at negotiating the train timetable. For long distances, flying is usually about the same price as a soft sleeper, and buying tickets is more convenient, so unless you really want to sit on a hard seat for a Beijing-Xi'an trip (not recommended - I have done that several times through necessity), flying is probably the way to go.

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"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong

"Obviously, weather patterns would account for the lack of flowering plants in layers below the Cretaceous period. That's just common sense." - A creationist, not being sarcastic

"if the greco-roman statues were so awesome then they would not have had their penises chiselled off by the motherfucking christians"
-Shroomy

Well the real question is whether or not it's more scenic to take the train and whether their trains are hideously overcrowded. I can deal with hard seats; overcrowded and incredibly dull, not so much.

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"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

I was thinking more hard seat overnight, since that's what I do whenever I have to take a train trip of more than seven hours or so.

The scenery's okay on the train, I guess - much cleaner than ten years ago - but it becomes fairly same-ish after a while, especially in northern China where they don't have many mountains. Talking to people on the train is interesting, but if you can't speak Chinese that becomes a problem, since most people don't speak English that well.

Overcrowding usually only happens when the school term begins and ends and during one of the week-long public holidays.

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"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong

"Obviously, weather patterns would account for the lack of flowering plants in layers below the Cretaceous period. That's just common sense." - A creationist, not being sarcastic

"if the greco-roman statues were so awesome then they would not have had their penises chiselled off by the motherfucking christians"
-Shroomy

You might want to check out if it´s affordable to rent a car. After doing both, traveling by car and doing the whole backpacking with public transport thing i find that traveling by car and tent is a lot better. You are simply more flexible and you will see a lot more because in a car you have a big wind shield and windows to each side whereas in a bus or train you´re suck with one window. Sounds ludicrous? Well, it´s not. It makes a big difference. Also, driving in countries with fucked up roads is hell of a lot of fun.
It could also make sense to check out if china is suited for camping. That way you can save a lot of money. Are there camping sites available? If yes, are they available in cities? Is it possible to camp in the wilderness? And stuff like that.

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Holy War - Atheist Peace

No, he does not want to check out whether or not it's affordable to rent a car, because Chinese motorists are fucking crazy. It's not just the motorists either: "right of way" is a foreign concept to the people in China. He'll have to watch out for cyclists crossing against the red, pedestrians nonchalantly walking across the road while eating meat-on-a-stick, forced merges from both sides, motorcyclists and so on. Most westerners get culture shock just from walking along the street, the traffic is that crazy. And with even a super expensive taxi ride (within the city - not counting to the airport) being 40 kuai (less than $6US), and most being around 12-20, it's really not worth it.

Besides, China doesn't recognise international driver's licences, so he'd have to get it converted to a local one at considerable cost and time that he doesn't have.

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"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong

"Obviously, weather patterns would account for the lack of flowering plants in layers below the Cretaceous period. That's just common sense." - A creationist, not being sarcastic

"if the greco-roman statues were so awesome then they would not have had their penises chiselled off by the motherfucking christians"
-Shroomy

Meh, i drove in Dar Es Salaam where red lights are a foreign concept not only for cyclists but also for car and truck drivers. You actually get yelled at if you respect red lights until you just do it like everyone else and ignore traffic signs entirely. It´s a bit strange for a half a day, then you´re used to it and it works fine.

You don´t even have to go that far. What you discribed above could just as well be a scene in Florence.

Taxis in cities are fine of course. But when travelling from one city to another one i´d rent a car for 2 or 3 days, grab a tent and enjoy the scenery and road trip.

Your last point makes everything moot, though. If they don´t recognize an international passport and converting an American one is expensive taking a car is not a real option. Fucking bureaucrats. Or is it? How expensive is it if you get caught driving without a valid liscense?

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Holy War - Atheist Peace

I don't see how he'd be able to enjoy the scenery and the road trip when he'd constantly be having people merge into him left right and centre. Traffic gets worse as you leave the major cities. The worst traffic jam I've ever been in was in a tiny village, because it was harvest season and the peasants had spread all their corn over the road to dry.

There also isn't that much camping in China, unless you literally want to camp on the side of the road. Camping just isn't a very Han thing to do.



200-2000 yuan and possible detention for up to 15 days - most likely on the higher end on account of being a foreigner. The car will also get confiscated if you get caught, so there will be some difficulties in actually getting someone to hire out a car as well.

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"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong

"Obviously, weather patterns would account for the lack of flowering plants in layers below the Cretaceous period. That's just common sense." - A creationist, not being sarcastic

"if the greco-roman statues were so awesome then they would not have had their penises chiselled off by the motherfucking christians"
-Shroomy

I don't drive as it is anyway, because I don't like it. Needless to say renting a car in China never even occurred to me, and the most I'd be likely to do is rent a bicycle.

As far as saving money, I expect I'll have around $5-6,000 for the trip, maybe more. From what I've researched so far the most expensive thing I can see is the international air fare.

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"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college."