And lo, the 2008 Olympic games begin

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Post by Jim Raynor »

Nastia Liukin is hot. And she's 18. There, I said it.
FSTargetDrone wrote:I've been watching more and more of the Olympics, and man, well, I don't know, but some of those Chinese female gymnasts look extremely young. Like, 10 year-olds. Or younger. Too young.

:?
I think just about anyone watching them thinks the same thing. I haven't looked too deep into this, but supposedly there are some documents out there proving that they're underage. China denies it and has some other papers saying they're old enough to compete.

I didn't believe the age-related conspiracy theories when the basketball player Yi Jianlian entered the NBA, and I chalked it up to unsupported China bashing. But these Chinese gymnasts look very suspicious.
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Post by Metatwaddle »

Yeah, one of those girls - I think her family name was Deng? - reminded me a lot of an 11-year-old I know, who is also Chinese and currently at the Olympics. I know a lot of Asian girls are very petite, but even so, there's no way Deng was more than 14. I'd guess she's 12.

I also find it a bit too convenient that all China's gymnasts are supposedly 16, except for Cheng Fei, who was in Athens and is supposedly 20. Not one of them looks their age. The only one I'd say is over 16 is Cheng, and she's not 20 either.

It's a little bit scary to think about, honestly. Gymnastics, as RI was pointing out to me tonight, is a really hypercritical sport. The mental strain on these girls has to be unbe-fucking-lievable. Not to mention the physical strain: there is no way they can do that many dismounts off the uneven bars and vaults and not fuck up their knees on the landings. I'd guess they're going to have knee problems later in life.

In an interview with Bob Costas after the team finals, Bela Karolyi was very clear that he thought the age documents were full of shit. It was pretty funny.

On a totally unrelated note, all the commentators seem to be tiptoeing around what happened at Tiananmen Square. I especially heard it with the cycling commentators, since the race route went through Tiananmen Square. RI said he heard other, more general commentators tiptoeing around it as well.
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Post by hongi »

Tiananmen Square
Should be screamed from the rafters. This is Western media we're talking about, they shouldn't have to censor or mince their own words.
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Post by Edward Yee »

*Reads in that condoms article that there's friggin' Fuwa condoms* :roll: This is my favorite 'spin' on the mascots... FUWATRON!

Then again, judging by this article, even the "creator" didn't like them... or at least, not the bureaucratic meddling.

The mention of the repeated landing impacts reminded me of Japanese pro wrestling... see Kenta Kobashi and Keiji Mutou, whose repeated moonsaults eventually left them injured multiple times and having to reserve them for special occasions. (In Kenta Kobashi's case, it was 13 months in 2001 through 2002 -- only for his knees to be injured in his return match and his new return having to be delayed by several months. Only longer hiatus I know he's had was due to a kidney tumor.) Here's hoping that that's not the fate awaiting some of these Olympians. :(
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Post by PeZook »

Metatwaddle wrote:Not to mention the physical strain: there is no way they can do that many dismounts off the uneven bars and vaults and not fuck up their knees on the landings. I'd guess they're going to have knee problems later in life.
Frankly, most sports nowadays require the athletes to overspecialize in such a dramatic way so as to fuck them up later in life. I personally think it's really, really horrible that people get all sorts of nasty problems by 35 just because they needed to abuse themselves to shave off that last half-second off the world record.

The Chinese are just more ruthless about pushing their kids to the limit.
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Post by Broomstick »

Metatwaddle wrote:It's a little bit scary to think about, honestly. Gymnastics, as RI was pointing out to me tonight, is a really hypercritical sport. The mental strain on these girls has to be unbe-fucking-lievable. Not to mention the physical strain: there is no way they can do that many dismounts off the uneven bars and vaults and not fuck up their knees on the landings. I'd guess they're going to have knee problems later in life.
And not very much later in life - Western gymnasts have reported severe joint problems and even osteoporosis as early as their 20's. Not to mention some truly catastrophic injuries suffered by some gymnasts who wound up in wheelchairs instead of the Olympics. I'm all for women in sports, but not to the point their bodies are destroyed.
In an interview with Bob Costas after the team finals, Bela Karolyi was very clear that he thought the age documents were full of shit. It was pretty funny.
Funny - but pretty damning. It's not like Bela ever favored post-pubescent girls for his teams.
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Post by Darth Wong »

It seems silly to criticize sports for causing injuries and health problems now; it's been doing that for a long time. There are kids who wind up paralyzed before they reach adulthood because they wanted to play violent games like youth hockey or football. If that sort of thing offends you, then you should vote with your dollars by not watching any sport or buying products from sponsors of sports which endanger young people. But we all know that nobody intends to do that; they would rather watch the sports and then say sanctimonious things every now and then about steroids or domineering coaches. How many baseball fans who rant about steroids were glued to their TV sets during the infamous home-run race between Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa?
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

One of the most notorious cases of serious abuse was the E. German athletes who got fed so much hormones and so forth, a number of them went on a sex change operation anyway, from female to male.
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Post by hongi »

The picture of the Spanish guys doing the slanty eyes thing? It hit the media. Dumb dumb dumb dumb.
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Post by Braedley »

I'd just like to point out that female gymnasts have always been the youngest members of Olympic teams. Female gymnasts over 20 are rarities at best at the Olympics, and are almost always at their second or third Olympics.
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Post by Buddha »

hongi wrote:The picture of the Spanish guys doing the slanty eyes thing? It hit the media. Dumb dumb dumb dumb.
They will probably hear about it from their coach and get the "watch your asses" speech. But hey...what's wrong with more acts in this three ring circus, anyway?
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Post by Lord Pounder »

Not the first time Spanish sport has demonstrated a scary racist streak. Anyone remember the manager of the Spanish Soccer team refering to Henry of France as "a black shit" or the racist abuse they subjected Lewis Hamilton to?
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Post by Broomstick »

Darth Wong wrote:It seems silly to criticize sports for causing injuries and health problems now; it's been doing that for a long time.
Part of my concern is not that kids get hurt playing sports - hell, I got hurt pretty good playing sports as a kid and I wasn't anywhere near state-level, much less Olympic - but rather how frequently and/or severely. Obviously, there will always be a certain number of injuries but I'd rather see the frequency and severity going down over time, not remaining static and certainly not going up.

Also, thanks to advances in orthopedic surgery, children who before would have had careers ended by injury can now be "repaired" and returned to competition, to be injured multiple times. My father competed in gymnastics while in college and says many of today's moves they would have been afraid to attempt in his day, because a mistake could have left a person crippled for life - now we can "fix" them and send them back for more. It's good that people aren't left maimed by some of these accidents, but bad if that encourages people to take risks that maybe they shouldn't.
If that sort of thing offends you, then you should vote with your dollars by not watching any sport or buying products from sponsors of sports which endanger young people.
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Post by Cairber »

My dad said that he could tell by the teeth on two of the Chinese girls that they were 12 or 13 years old at most (he's a dentist) Apparently one of them didn't even have both k9s fully in yet and another was missing a tooth.
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Post by Grasscutter »

Buddha wrote:
hongi wrote:The picture of the Spanish guys doing the slanty eyes thing? It hit the media. Dumb dumb dumb dumb.
They will probably hear about it from their coach and get the "watch your asses" speech. But hey...what's wrong with more acts in this three ring circus, anyway?
More like the usual 'I didn't know it was racist everybody should lighten up and drop it' pseudo-apology that gets trotted out whenever something like this happens.

Seriously, what's so hard about saying something like "I'm sorry, I didn't know it was a racist gesture, I'll never do it again now that I know"?
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Post by thejester »

Part of the Olympics I love is getting to watch awesome sports that you would never otherwise see.

Water Polo being the key example. The strength required to play it is amazing - and gotta love the constant dodgy acts off the ball.
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Post by Cos Dashit »

thejester wrote:Part of the Olympics I love is getting to watch awesome sports that you would never otherwise see.

Water Polo being the key example. The strength required to play it is amazing - and gotta love the constant dodgy acts off the ball.
Most high schools have a water polo team, and from what I've seen, they play just as vigorously.
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Post by Rye »

What was it Frankie Boyle said? Gymnastics is paedophilia for cowards? Yeah, can't help but get that vibe, really.
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Post by mr friendly guy »

Grasscutter wrote:
Buddha wrote:
hongi wrote:The picture of the Spanish guys doing the slanty eyes thing? It hit the media. Dumb dumb dumb dumb.
They will probably hear about it from their coach and get the "watch your asses" speech. But hey...what's wrong with more acts in this three ring circus, anyway?
More like the usual 'I didn't know it was racist everybody should lighten up and drop it' pseudo-apology that gets trotted out whenever something like this happens.

Seriously, what's so hard about saying something like "I'm sorry, I didn't know it was a racist gesture, I'll never do it again now that I know"?
Its apparently ok, because he has chinese friends

Geez, how many times have we heard racists try to defend themselves by saying some of my best friends are black / < insert required ethnic group here>
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Post by hongi »

The New York Times quoted Reneses as saying the slit-eye gesture was no more offensive than if the team had posed for an ad standing on their tip toes ahead of playing a taller team.
Or if the team was in Israel and they all wore long, hooked nose prosthetics and money bags around their necks. But it's alright, they were smiling. :roll:
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Post by MichaelFerrariF1 »

Apparently the Chinese goofed and reported earlier that their gymnasts were underage.

Associated Press
State-media story fuels questions on gymnast's age

By JOHN LEICESTER
Associated Press Writer

BEIJING (AP) -- Just nine months before the Beijing Olympics, the Chinese government's news agency, Xinhua, reported that gymnast He Kexin was 13, which would have made her ineligible to be on the team that won a gold medal this week.

In its report Nov. 3, Xinhua identified He as one of "10 big new stars" who made a splash at China's Cities Games. It gave her age as 13 and reported that she beat Yang Yilin on the uneven bars at those games. In the final, "this little girl" pulled off a difficult release move on the bars known as the Li Na, named for another Chinese gymnast, Xinhua said in the report, which appeared on one of its Web sites, http://www.hb.xinhuanet.com

The Associated Press found the Xinhua report on the site Thursday morning and saved a copy of the page. Later that afternoon, the Web site was still working but the page was no longer accessible. Sports editors at the state-run news agency would not comment for publication.

If the age reported by Xinhua was correct, that would have meant He was too young to be on the Chinese team that beat the United States on Wednesday and clinched China's first women's team Olympic gold in gymnastics. He is also a favorite for gold in Monday's uneven bars final.

Yang was also on Wednesday's winning team. Questions have also been raised about her age and that of a third team member, Jiang Yuyuan.

Gymnasts have to be 16 during the Olympic year to be eligible for the games. He's birthday is listed as Jan. 1, 1992.

Chinese authorities insist that all three are old enough to compete. He herself told reporters after Wednesday's final that "my real age is 16. I don't pay any attention to what everyone says."

Zhang Hongliang, an official with China's gymnastics delegation at the games, said Thursday the differing ages which have appeared in Chinese media reports had not been checked in advance with the gymnastics federation.

"It's definitely a mistake," Zhang said of the Xinhua report, speaking in a telephone interview. "Never has any media outlet called me to check the athletes' ages."

Asked whether the federation had changed their ages to make them eligible, Zhang said: "We are a sports department. How would we have the ability to do that?"

"We already explained this very clearly. There's no need to discuss this thing again."

The International Gymnastics Federation (FIG) has said repeatedly that a passport is the "accepted proof of a gymnast's eligibility," and that He and China's other gymnasts have presented ones that show they are age eligible. The IOC also checked the girls' passports and deemed them valid.

A May 23 story in the China Daily newspaper, the official English-language paper of the Chinese government, said He was 14. The story was later corrected to list her as 16.

"This is not a USAG issue," said Steve Penny, president of USA Gymnastics. "The FIG and the IOC are the proper bodies to handle this."
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Post by LMSx »

I heard an argument that being underage is directly rewarded by the choice of female events- the uneven bars, for example, rewarding lightweight pixies. The remedy was to replace them with strength events like the rings or parallel bars, which would reward those in their athletic prime.

Any gymnasts with thoughts on that? I'd imagine the risk of steroids would be counterbalanced by destroying the incentive for eating disorders or delayed puberty, along with more informed consent from older athletes.
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Post by Edward Yee »

Zuul wrote:What was it Frankie Boyle said? Gymnastics is paedophilia for cowards? Yeah, can't help but get that vibe, really.
Women's (or apparently girls') gymnastics only, though? Although, after that mention I'm reminded of this...
What kills the Karolyis isn’t that the Chinese would risk the health of their children by throwing them out here before their bones and muscles mature. It’s that the Americans won’t allow the Karolyis to do it, too.
Oh yeah, regarding Bela Karolyi in particular:
The Karolyis couldn’t just lose with dignity. They couldn’t accept their gymnasts’ best. They look across the way and lust over a system that might allow them to trot out a 4-foot-6, 68-pounder who bends and flips with ease. Bela coached Nadia Comaneci to seven perfect 10s in the 1976 Olympics. She was 14.

With glory like that, who would remember all the other little girls who were injured? Who would care?
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Post by Metatwaddle »

Well, it turned out the all-around gold medalist was Nastia Liukin, a tall 18-year-old. The silver medalist was Shawn Johnson.
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Post by mr friendly guy »

From the article Edward linked too
Win or lose, they have to be the center of attention – from carrying Kerri Strug around for the cameras in Atlanta, to carrying on and on here in Beijing. It feeds their machine, increases their power in USA Gymnastics and convinces another generation of parents that they alone are best to make their tumbling daughter’s dream come true.

“One little girl has (a) missing tooth,” Martha sniffed with indignation at the Chinese, although she would offer no name and admit she “has no proof” of anything.

Later she’d claim, without any substance and lacking facts, that Olympic judges delayed Alicia Sacramone from starting her beam routine in an effort to shake her concentration.
Wow. Just wow. This is worse than the article I read on Australian news where she accused the judges of using "psychological warfare" or some such shit by delaying Alicia from the beam.

Now there are bad eggs everywhere, and some people bitch when they lose. Australian Lisa Martin accused the winner of the olympic marathon of spiking drinks when she couldn't finish the race. But for some reason I hear a lot of Americans complaining when they lose or even before they begun, they like to accuse their competitors of cheating.

For example American swim team accusing Irish women Michelle ? white of doing drugs after she won three gold medals (I think it was at Atlanta), and swimmer Gary Hall Junior accusing Australian swimmer Eamon Sullivan (one of the favourites to win gold and world record holder in 100 metres free style) of using drugs. Maybe if Hall actually concentrated on his swimming instead of his bitching he might even be selected on the American swim team.

This just makes Americans look like bad sports, and while I realise these are just a minority, the minority definitely seems larger compared to sore losers from say here or other countries.
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