Why are we so enamored of the Japanese?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2007-10-22 10:10am

FSTargetDrone wrote:I actually just forced myself to sit through a HD version of Akira on Comcast's On Demand and it was a tortuous affair. Bor-ring.

Fuck yes. A lot of the so-called "essential" anime is like that. Years ago, when I was first getting into it, I just HAD to see Akira (I hated it), and Neon Genesis Evangelion (Protip: Pretention is NOT a viable substitute for a compelling story) and Ghost in the Shell (ditto for the movies, but I actually enjoy the TV shows). In general, popularity is not a good indicator of quality (see: Dragon Ball Z), and much of what's distributed on our continent is crap. Of these "ZOMG you haven't seen them yet!?" works, Cowboy Bebop is the only one that's actually as good as everyone says it is.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-10-22 11:13am

Darth Raptor wrote: Years ago, when I was first getting into it, I just HAD to see Akira (I hated it), and Neon Genesis Evangelion (Protip: Pretention is NOT a viable substitute for a compelling story) and Ghost in the Shell (ditto for the movies, but I actually enjoy the TV shows). In general, popularity is not a good indicator of quality (see: Dragon Ball Z), and much of what's distributed on our continent is crap. Of these "ZOMG you haven't seen them yet!?" works, Cowboy Bebop is the only one that's actually as good as everyone says it is.

Eh, it's no real secret that a lot of anime is pure crap, about the same ratio as regular American TV. The problem is that it's an expensive hobby to get into given how much crap actually gets aired in the US. Best way to get around that I've found is to just watch the fansubbed versions and buy the decent ones if/when they're released, and for the most part ignore the fanboy wank.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2007-10-22 12:30pm

lance wrote:Weren't we also enamored by the South after the American Civil War? Maybe we just like to beat the shit out of culteres then worship them.

The only people enamored with the South are people from the South.

Darth Raptor wrote:Fuck yes. A lot of the so-called "essential" anime is like that. Years ago, when I was first getting into it, I just HAD to see Akira (I hated it), and Neon Genesis Evangelion (Protip: Pretention is NOT a viable substitute for a compelling story) and Ghost in the Shell (ditto for the movies, but I actually enjoy the TV shows). In general, popularity is not a good indicator of quality (see: Dragon Ball Z), and much of what's distributed on our continent is crap. Of these "ZOMG you haven't seen them yet!?" works, Cowboy Bebop is the only one that's actually as good as everyone says it is.

Neither pretension nor pretty pictures. Visually, parts of it are interesting, but the entire film seems to be people constantly calling Tetsuo's name. You could make a drinking game, every time you hear someone say "Tetsuo."

I can't claim to have seen a lot of anime, but in regards to Akira, I was just so completely underwhelmed. When I first saw it, years ago, I think the buddy of mine who had rented it was all rah-rah about it, but it must say something about my tastes even then because I hadn't seen it again in the 8 or 9 years since then. It was on On Demand recently in HD, so I figured, what the hell.

It was even more boring than I remembered. It was just, so..., well boring. Maybe there's something lost in the English translation, or maybe I just can't appreciate some hidden grandeur or deep philosophical message, but I kept waiting and waiting for it to get good, to become interesting. And it didn't.

Bebop, which is not perfect, is still pretty good (with the exception of Edward, who is annoying and seems to have the only regular depiction of the huge eyes/enormous mouth thing I strongly dislike, aside from being a moderately annoying character) and it's the one Anime series I actually own. I watch it about once a year all the way through over a week or so and I never regretted the purchase. But damn, it was expensive.

I don't even want to think how much I paid for it (I bought it a disc/Session at a time).

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-10-22 03:04pm

Animation is a medium that allows stories to be told that could never be presented in live-action as it was intended, and in America, animation has always been "kid's stuff", so many quality films and/or television shows come out of Japan that would never have gotten financing in America.

RIPP_n_WIPE · Post by **RIPP_n_WIPE** » 2007-10-22 04:00pm

First of when you say "we" you have to be more specific since there are many folks from many countries here.

Second, I think it's got a lot to do with the US policy of suddenly liking a lot what's been raped, pillaged, and all in all fucked up by the nation. The interest in Native American styles of clothing (see mukluks) african fashion (ear gageing) african america music (Blues, County, Rock, Jazz, pretty much everything that anyone here listens to save maybe metal and classical), and anime. Once something isn't a thread and "0MGZZ EV1LL!!!" you can look at it as something to be appreciated. Though I personally still get pissed off when I see some jock kid banging out to 50 cent with nigga being every other word, knowing that the same kid has never been to compton or bed sty or detroit and would be shot or maimed going to such a place.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2007-10-22 04:15pm

RIPP_n_WIPE wrote:Second, I think it's got a lot to do with the US policy of suddenly liking a lot what's been raped, pillaged, and all in all fucked up by the nation. The interest in Native American styles of clothing (see mukluks) african fashion (ear gageing)

Mukluks is a fashion trend I never need to see again. Gah. I don't like poofy feet covering! And ear guaging is becoming popular? How revolting.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2007-10-22 05:11pm

Darth Raptor wrote:Fuck yes. A lot of the so-called "essential" anime is like that. Years ago, when I was first getting into it, I just HAD to see Akira (I hated it), and Neon Genesis Evangelion (Protip: Pretention is NOT a viable substitute for a compelling story) and Ghost in the Shell (ditto for the movies, but I actually enjoy the TV shows). In general, popularity is not a good indicator of quality (see: Dragon Ball Z), and much of what's distributed on our continent is crap. Of these "ZOMG you haven't seen them yet!?" works, Cowboy Bebop is the only one that's actually as good as everyone says it is.

Anime conforms to Sturgeon's Law? Shock fucking horror!

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2007-10-23 06:08am

Well, personally, I've taken a fancy to the topknot, of all things, so I like watching Samurai movies for all of the topknotalicious men. Mmmm.. topknotty.

I always thought that the "obsession" with Japan was because it was the Asian (ie, exotic) nation that we could view more or less on equal terms, because even though they were relatively primitive in 1868, within a few decades, they were going around building national railways and telegraph systems, and winning wars against the Russians. Nobody else in Asia was doing anything like that, so that made Japan "better" than the other Asian nations.

Then there was WWII, where we had to respect them as enemies, to a certain extent, and few decades after that, Japan's economy boom began, and we began to see it as this inexplicable marvel that managed to dominate the the world's economy after losing WWII, and Japanese-owned brands such as Toshiba, Toyota, Honda and Sony, amongst others became household names. Sure there were places in Asia like Singapore and Hong Kong that were doing well as well, but Japan was a phoenomenon. A phoenomenon that sold us cars and VCRs.

These days, we're beginning to see people who've grown up watching Japanese animation. When I was little, two of my favourite shows were Monkey and Astro Boy I think of Japan as "the place where my favourite tv shows come from". I imagine that the current generation of kids will think of it in a similar fashion, as they're being shown Pokemon, Naruto, etc. And the internet, of course, is making Japanese media more accessible, and because of the amount of Japanese media available, it's easier to get at, even if it is just a Youtube video of a Japanese game show, which makes people laugh and say, "those wacky Japanese". It really is highly visible, and if people notice that something exists, they're more likely to take an interest in it. That might sound obvious, but visibility is its own kind of popularity, and some people might discount the fact that you're more likely to run into a random Japanese snippet on the internet than you are to run into a random French one.

EDIT: fixed typo. While telegraphs were advanced technology in the 19th Century, they were long obsolete by 1968. I knew that, I swear.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2007-10-23 08:21am

Vendetta wrote:Anime conforms to Sturgeon's Law? Shock fucking horror!

But this is a case of the supposed remaining 10% also being mostly crap.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2007-10-23 08:45am

because even though they were relatively primitive in 1968, within a few decades, they were going around building national railways and telegraph systems, and winning wars against the Russian...

Uhhhhh you want to check your dates ?:D

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2007-10-23 02:12pm

Chris OFarrell wrote:
because even though they were relatively primitive in 1968, within a few decades, they were going around building national railways and telegraph systems, and winning wars against the Russian...
Uhhhhh you want to check your dates ?:D

Hey! It's not my fault that some genius decided to put the 8 key right next to the 9 key. If they didn't want this kind of thing to happen, then clearly they shouldn't have put them in such proximity to each other.

Darth Raptor wrote:But this is a case of the supposed remaining 10% also being mostly crap.

I actually reckon that it's a case of a lot of anime fanboys having crap taste. The number of people I see enjoying anime because it's "cute" is rather frustrating, when there's plenty of anime out there with fantastic stories/interesting social commentaries/lots of funnies that they could be watching instead. But nooooo, they have to watch Azumanga Daioh, because it's "cute" and "they think it's funny". Or they want to go on all-night Evangelion marathons, because being mind-fucked is fun, apparently. Host Club, on the other hand, is a good anime. It'll never become one of the "classics", because it's mainly a spoof, and it doesn't have "deep and meaningful themes and metaphors" running through it, but it is fun to watch.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-10-23 02:16pm

Lusankya wrote: It'll never become one of the "classics", because it's mainly a spoof, and it doesn't have "deep and meaningful themes and metaphors" running through it, but it is fun to watch.

Personally I find that 90% of anyone who watches any show for deep and meaningful themes and metaphors are wankers. But that's just me.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2007-10-23 05:25pm

General Zod wrote:Personally I find that 90% of anyone who watches any show for deep and meaningful themes and metaphors are wankers. But that's just me.

It's not just you-- I've seen enough of such bullshit in Star Wars Vs Star Trek, and reading about it is like listening to George W. Bush talk about the good job the US is doing in motherfucking Iraq.

That said, I watch shows for entertainment. When I was a teen, I watched it for drama, but now I just watch it for cool action sequences, something anime has a lot of.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2007-10-23 09:08pm

If you watch anime and lament over Japan's unbelievable lead in gadgets, does that make you a Japanomaniac?

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-10-23 09:34pm

Hamel wrote:If you watch anime and lament over Japan's unbelievable lead in gadgets, does that make you a Japanomaniac?

I really don't think you could possibly lament over such technofanangled advancements as 'baby mop'.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-10-23 11:38pm

Ford Prefect wrote:
Hamel wrote:If you watch anime and lament over Japan's unbelievable lead in gadgets, does that make you a Japanomaniac?
I really don't think you could possibly lament over such technofanangled advancements as 'baby mop'.

That was an invention specifically for some sort of contest sponsored by a bunch of artists where people design a product that is theoretically useful, but would be actually be too impractical to use. The rules of the contest include that you can't actually design the product for retail use.

I remember another winner, besides the baby mop, was the portable street lamp. So you never had to walk down a dark street at night.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-10-23 11:48pm

Hamel wrote:If you watch anime and lament over Japan's unbelievable lead in gadgets, does that make you a Japanomaniac?

I hear Japan has wicked awesome cell phones... but then I don't give a shit about my cell phone (Makes audible calls? Awesome! Has a built-in calculator?? BONUS!) so yeah I'm not seeing the tremendous lead in gadgets. They've got a bunch of gimmicky shit, sure, but so does the US; ours is just priced to make more money off the people dumb enough to buy it.

Watching anime does not in and of itself make one a... yeah I'm not repeating that word. It's when you watch and enjoy shows purely because they are Japanese animation, rather than on any actual merits, that it becomes retarded. I watch some anime because I like the material, but I find that anime is as prone to failure as American television is.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-10-24 12:21am

Lusankya wrote:But nooooo, they have to watch Azumanga Daioh, because it's "cute" and "they think it's funny".

Hey, what American comedies do you like that I can drag through the mud because they don't appeal to my sense of humor?

(In other words: Fuck you.)

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2007-10-24 07:15am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Lusankya wrote:But nooooo, they have to watch Azumanga Daioh, because it's "cute" and "they think it's funny".
Hey, what American comedies do you like that I can drag through the mud because they don't appeal to my sense of humor?

(In other words: Fuck you.)

Wow. I can see that someone here hasn't been laid in a good long while, and it sure as hell ain't me. Go smoke a joint or something, eat some brownies and chill out. Or get laid, seriously.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2007-10-24 09:48am

Ouran Host club will never be a classic because appearently the western male anime geek gives it no respect.

Over here it's practically a shoe it for anime of the year!

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-10-24 10:51am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Lusankya wrote:But nooooo, they have to watch Azumanga Daioh, because it's "cute" and "they think it's funny".
Hey, what American comedies do you like that I can drag through the mud because they don't appeal to my sense of humor?

(In other words: Fuck you.)

Ohnoes! Someone made fun of a series I like! Whatever shall I do! :fakeshock:

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2007-10-24 11:03am

General Zod wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Lusankya wrote:But nooooo, they have to watch Azumanga Daioh, because it's "cute" and "they think it's funny".
Hey, what American comedies do you like that I can drag through the mud because they don't appeal to my sense of humor?

(In other words: Fuck you.)
Ohnoes! Someone made fun of a series I like! Whatever shall I do! :fakeshock:

Offhand, I'm not getting the vibe that Azumanga sucks, more like some people watch and go away thinking that that's the only kind of anime...but if that's the case, so be it, ...if you think it's cute and funny, why NOT watch it? Sure it's frustrating no one talks about Haibane Renmei, or Rescue Wings, or Ouran, or what have you anime that is not RAR DBZ!, but Azumanga always seemed to me precisely the kind of show you let normal people watch* do do away with the notion that anime is solely for lifeless geeks. (so yeah, I'm disagreeing with lusankya here on a specific point, but I certainly feel the sentiment.)

*EDIT: actually, I don't see why anyone who enjoyed azumanga wouldn't enjoy ouran, unless they refuse to watch shoujo, which seems to be the case for many males.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-10-24 11:13am

AniThyng wrote: Offhand, I'm not getting the vibe that Azumanga sucks, more like some people watch and go away thinking that that's the only kind of anime...but if that's the case, so be it, ...if you think it's cute and funny, why NOT watch it? Sure it's frustrating no one talks about Haibane Renmei, or Rescue Wings, or Ouran, or what have you anime that is not RAR DBZ!, but Azumanga always seemed to me precisely the kind of show you let normal people watch* do do away with the notion that anime is solely for lifeless geeks. (so yeah, I'm disagreeing with lusankya here on a specific point, but I certainly feel the sentiment.)

I'm ambivalent about it. I don't care for the art style and the characters don't really strike me as especially interesting. So it's one of those shows I never bothered getting into.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2007-10-24 11:23am

General Zod wrote:
AniThyng wrote: Offhand, I'm not getting the vibe that Azumanga sucks, more like some people watch and go away thinking that that's the only kind of anime...but if that's the case, so be it, ...if you think it's cute and funny, why NOT watch it? Sure it's frustrating no one talks about Haibane Renmei, or Rescue Wings, or Ouran, or what have you anime that is not RAR DBZ!, but Azumanga always seemed to me precisely the kind of show you let normal people watch* do do away with the notion that anime is solely for lifeless geeks. (so yeah, I'm disagreeing with lusankya here on a specific point, but I certainly feel the sentiment.)
I'm ambivalent about it. I don't care for the art style and the characters don't really strike me as especially interesting. So it's one of those shows I never bothered getting into.

Certainly that is a reasonable opinion to have, and frankly, I can say the same thing of lots of other shows/anime/games/books/what have you, so to each his own, and I (and everyone else) should never have so much free time we can watch all the crap out there without picking and choosing what we personally like

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2007-10-24 02:59pm

AniThyng wrote:Ouran Host club will never be a classic because appearently the western male anime geek gives it no respect.

I thought that was a shojo series, i.e., it has lots of pretty boys for female otaku to squeel over?

Over here it's practically a shoe it for anime of the year!

Where do you live, anyways?