SD.Net Zombie Outbreak

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2006-04-25 03:53pm

Marina (Duchess of Zeon) is actually fairly well prepared for this kind of outbreak, IIRC - just not in Toronto.

Xess · Post by **Xess** » 2006-04-25 05:09pm

I'll asume Manitoba is out of driving range. So I'll head to the Winnipeg CFB and hole up with the army guys.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-04-25 05:24pm

Whoo hoo! I'm out of range. I just get to laugh at you poor suckers fighting for your lives..

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-04-25 06:22pm

phongn wrote:Marina (Duchess of Zeon) is actually fairly well prepared for this kind of outbreak, IIRC - just not in Toronto.

She lives in a hilltop fort with mormon neighbors with months of food, and herself, has shitloads of ammo?

Sonnenburg · Post by **Sonnenburg** » 2006-04-25 11:37pm

My big zombie obstacle is that I have never even touched a gun in my life (which actually has me listed as an official endangered species in Wisconsin). I think the best weapon I could have would be a severed leg, on the grounds that I could probably cave skulls in with it, and in a pinch I can throw it at the zombies and hopefully run away while they eat it.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2006-04-26 02:06am

Fuck...it just HAD to be the remake...

Where are we supposed to get weapons in the first place? If guns are so hard to find, my choices in melee weapons would be an axe and an aluminum softball bat. I'd also want to be wearing steel-toed boots.

Since my military experience consists of grease-monkeying and paintball, I vote get the fuck off of the mainland. My problem before that would be getting from Toronto to Los Angeles to check on my family.

I'd much rather face this situation starting at home. My family's here. I've got guns here, various swords and beatsticks, cars, extra gas, and I know the roads I'd need to get out of the metro LA area. I've never set foot in Toronto. Besides, I know the sort of people that populate the immediate area should they zombify. Most I run into regularly are a lot smaller than the average Chicagoan or myself. Michelle can handle a firearm, but God help him with any melee weapon. Jax is pretty good with nunchaku, but I don't know what effect those have on a skull even if they're steel.

My first order of business in either situation would be loading whatever supplies at hand into whatever vehicles at hand, and setting out to find a tougher vehicle. Something I could use to run down shitloads of zombies and carry more supplies. The first thing that comes to mind is a Hummer or Escalade, but we'd need a lot of gas.

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2006-04-26 06:58am

If we start from the urban area, and we're in a bar it's gonna be a pain in the ass to even start gathering stuff we need. From what I see on the Google map of Toronto it is a highly populated city which means lots of zombies.

At best starters could be the tables and chairs broken down into shields and clubs. Some guys probably can make useful things from the kitchen. Then we relocate to a building with better condition and start sending out parties to gather stuff. A gas station would probably be good for starts because the main priorities would be transportation, defense, followed up by supplies. Guns probably could be obtained from police stations.

After we have all we want we leave. I don't want any zombie traffic jams. The vehicles we acquire should have ramming power. If this isn't the case then three or four of such vehicles would be in lead. Either case the vehicles should be rotating from time to time so the zombies and their clumps of necro flesh still clinging could be cleared. Of course these vehicles have people with guns and molotovs on them for assistance (and scrubbing mops perhaps).

Assuming the outbreak starts regionally then all we have to do is to get so some safe location and everything would be easier from that point. Here I mean that at this location we're not only safe from the zombies, but also safe from getting killed by police and soldiers ordered to shoot anyone from the plague zone. This could be determined by phone calls, radio news...etc

If it's already worldwide then getting ourselves on an island or hilltop is a good idea.

We could set up a beacon a la Reign of Fire, and wait. I don't like the thought of us being the last of the human race. But I guess everything beyond this point is just for miracles. Who knows? This is SDN, we might eventually find out some more limits on the zombies and devise a way to fight back. Then we find other survivors and everyone starts making babies.

Edit: Oh and I'm not going to take any chances, I'll include alcohol and bleach in things we must get. After we outrun the zombies and before we settle we either sanatize or dispose stuff.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-26 09:43am

Why would soldiers shoot anybody from the plague zone? Why run away from police or soldiers?

Soldiers and police are our only hope. I don't get this run away and take it like a man stuff going around in this thread. Is there something about these zombies I'm missing that would make being unarmed easier to to survive against than being around someone with a Glock or a C7?

<edit>I don't buy the idea that zombies would ever break out in real life and be effective at all. Whooooooooooooo they have to bite you in the neck to infect you, scary. Unless it's an airborne virus, military should have no problem killing them. Unlike in movies real soldiers don't run out of ammunition as the plot directs them, aren't a small team of special forces but instead number in the millions, and would have heavy weaponry and fortifications that could easily deal with any melee attack. I don't buy the premise of Dawn of the Dead since quarantines would be set up and the military immediately sent in, and yes, police don't train to shoot in the head but they're quite capable of doing it at short range and everybody knows you shoot a zombie in the head to kill it, duh. That the authorities of movies can't handle melee attackers says that they can't handle them, not that we can't.</edit>

<edit>Well if I'm breaking the spirit of the op, sorry. But I think my best bet is to head for emergency shelters where there'd be shitloads of police, and wait for the professionals to do their job. We called in the army for a snowstorm, zombies would be worse and army reservists would be mobilized immediately to deal with a threat. The idea that "the word wouldn't get out" is a plot device like how in detective novels the setting's always closed so the detective can show his prowress. In this age of digital cameras and the internet and 24 hour news channels, a zombie outbreak would immediately become front page news and there'd be no hesitation by politicians to squash it or respond with force.</edit>

ETF (Police SWAT).

JTF2 (Anti-terrorism Commandoes, like Delta Force)

See unlike in movies they have gas masks and helmets because they're not worried about the audience not recognizing them, and that's just only one difference. Being real soldiers and police they would actually aim and hit melee attackers and would be there in force and on our side.

Brian

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2006-04-26 10:47am

brianeyci wrote:Why would soldiers shoot anybody from the plague zone? Why run away from police or soldiers?

Soldiers and police are our only hope. I don't get this run away and take it like a man stuff going around in this thread. Is there something about these zombies I'm missing that would make being unarmed easier to to survive against than being around someone with a Glock or a C7?

On my consideration I'm worried about the "CARRIORZ!!!11" panic. The best virus carrier is a dead carrier. Especially considering the world is now in chaos.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2006-04-26 10:57am

brianeyci wrote:Why would soldiers shoot anybody from the plague zone? Why run away from police or soldiers?

Because if these were real-life soldiers, then their superiors would be told by the real-life government to go on the assumption that this is being caused by some sort of virulently infectious disease. So, naturally, they'll be setting up a quarantine. Nobody gets in, nobody gets out. Sure you might look fine, but you may well just be a carrier, so it would be in the government's best interest to keep everybody bottled up until a reliable test can be hurried into the field. Given the aggressiveness of zombies, the soldiers would be suffering from very itchy trigger fingers. In this scenario, it will be likely that military and police from outside the contamination area will be high on your list of "people I should go to great pains not to piss off or make nervous."

Until they find a reliable way of seperating would-be zombies from uninfected survivors, they'll be instructing everyone to hole up and wait for rescue. In which case, you still end up with armed camps of survivors barricaded inside defensible buildings, and lots of other survivors who lock themselves inside their homes and treat it like any other infrastructure crippling emergency.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-04-26 12:06pm

The virus in DotD could only have been transmissible other ways and from multiple sources (the extra news commentary on the DVD shows CONUS being home to dozens of outbreaks in various states simultaneously). Even if you've got a top military and police force, they are far, far outnumbered by civilians that will get infected long before any real desperate measures are taken such as shoot-to-kill anyone breaking quarantine and blockading cities. There must have been a carrier in the sylvatic or urban cycle that was immune to the pathogen, yet could spread it. Rats are the usual contenders, but it could be dogs, cats or raccoons for all we know.

Not a lot is really known about the DotD events since it follows only one group and isn't concerned with global events much like the new WotW movie compared to ID4. In my alternative scenario with regards to the T-Virus outbreak, you've got more problems since the virus can be airborne to an extent, exist in water sources and affects any animal it comes into contact with, producing aggressive, one track minded people or creatures that undergo necrosis, but may also become hideously strong and demand multiple headshots to put them down quick. Raccoon City was at least reacted to quickly, since SWAT and the rest of the RPD worked on controlling the zombies but were simply overwhelmed by sheer numbers (ammunition may not run out down to plot device, but when it takes many times more rounds to down just one person infected, you're running out sooner rather than later). The US Army quarantined the city, evacuated any survivors they could find and then "sterilised" the site with a tac. nuke given any hope of stopping the outbreak without vaping everything there was gone.

Ergo, while not the T-Virus, the DotD scenario involves zombies that require headshots still and are also athletic to the extreme (the fat woman in a wheelbarrow becoming an Olympic gymnast after passing away). They're also not that stupid, but still one track minded.

I expect Toronto has an excellent police force and Canadian military units are second to none in many areas, so I hear. But can you honestly expect the authorities to handle this with the gloves on when the outbreak pretty much destroys the whole of the US within 72 hours from Patient Zero to cities being dead man lands?

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-26 04:29pm

Or the military and police in DotD could be extremely incompetent on the order of Klingons, firing from the hip and never hitting the head and losing only because it's a movie. I see it as basically guys with knives on PCP's, hmm these guys are really able to take out the whole United States in 72 hours.

Well what are my choices.

Follow a group of people gathered together for an internet funfest and hope that their extensive knowledge of B movies saves me as they barricade themselves on the Toronto islands, somehow crossing with the ferry that's working through the chaos.

Go to the nearest military reserve base (at least two in Toronto) or police station or protection zone whose location would be broadcast on a 24 hour news network and wait for the professionals to clean house.

That's a pretty hard one

.

Governments may be slow to act in real life compared to movies, but slow doesn't mean callous or inhumane. I can buy incompetence, see Katrina, but I don't believe that they'd deliberately slaughter individuals, infected or not, unless they clearly violated the quarantine line which I have no intention of doing. I intend to go to my designated evacuation area and be surrounded by police and army, secure in my knowledge that my government would protect me. Any cure or treatment would come from them.

Meanwhile good luck protecting yourselves with those pitchforks and kitchen knives guys. I have no idea where you're going to get firearms. There's no second amendment and I have no idea where to get guns except the pistols and revolvers from my university's shooting range and I live here.

<edit>About the headshots thing, the police in Britain shot that kid after the bombings, on orders to shoot for the head. Sure police train for shooting the torso, but firing on melee attackers, they will not miss. And zombies are popular culture, everybody knows to shoot them in the head. I still don't buy that zombies could be any kind of threat to real military or police forces. They're melee attackers, incredibly strong and fast, but still melee attackers.</edit>

Brian

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-04-26 04:36pm

brianeyci wrote:Or the military and police in DotD could be extremely incompetent on the order of Klingons, firing from the hip and never hitting the head and losing only because it's a movie. I see it as basically guys with knives on PCP's, hmm these guys are really able to take out the whole United States in 72 hours.

Millions of people on PCP with knives > some pros with guns. You also assume the military won't be infected, which is totally false. You could lose whole bases from the get go.

Well what are my choices.

Follow a group of people gathered together for an internet funfest and hope that their extensive knowledge of B movies saves me as they barricade themselves on the Toronto islands, somehow crossing with the ferry that's working through the chaos.

Go to the nearest military reserve base (at least two in Toronto) or police station or protection zone whose location would be broadcast on a 24 hour news network and wait for the professionals to clean house.

That's a pretty hard one .

Governments may be slow to act in real life compared to movies, but slow doesn't mean callous or inhumane. I can buy incompetence, see Katrina, but I don't believe that they'd deliberately slaughter individuals, infected or not, unless they clearly violated the quarantine line which I have no intention of doing. I intend to go to my designated evacuation area and be surrounded by police and army, secure in my knowledge that my government would protect me. Any cure or treatment would come from them.

That depends on the state of the outbreak. If it's something as bad as H5N1 is looking to be, then you can't risk people escaping (and they will try and escape quarantines). The only option is forceful containment of them in cells, or shoot-to-kill. It only takes one person escaping to start another outbreak all over again. With a horrific disease like this, you take no chances (and Bush has outlined similar policies should H5N1 become a pandemic).

Meanwhile good luck protecting yourselves with those pitchforks and kitchen knives guys. I have no idea where you're going to get firearms. There's no second amendment and I have no idea where to get guns except the pistols and revolvers from my university's shooting range and I live here.

Brian

I was aware Canada had equal access to firearms as the US.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-26 04:49pm

I can imagine roadblocks and police and military with orders to shoot to kill anybody who violates those roadblocks. Also I can imagine shoot to kill for anybody who violates curfew.

I cannot imagine shoot to kill everybody who's possibly infected who follows the rules. Nuke on American soil? Politicians are always forward thinking. Ordering the shooting down of a single jet on a collision course for a building is one thing, but ordering the slaughter of an entire city or indiscriminate killings of their own civilians is another. And the military is sworn to protect us, so I can't imagine a General ordering his men to shoot-to-kill except for people crossing the quarantine line or violating curfew.

I will follow the rules like a good citizen and let my government handle it. I will not steal from Costco (whose warehouses by the way is not in Toronto but in Toronto's outskirts, quite a bit aways from the downtown core), raid gas stations, steal a hummer, steal a ferry, steal firearms or anything else like that

. You guys are welcome to, or try. Oh and it would be stealing, since most stores would be closed and what goods were available would be from people trying to extort you.

Brian

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2006-04-26 04:52pm

brianeyci Reserve Force buildings do not have extensive ammo supplies. They have to get their ammo from the Reg Force when they go to ranges or on exercise. Chances are that they are going to be just as fucked as the SDN crew. They could however fix bayonets and use them as pikes.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-26 04:56pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:brianeyci Reserve Force buildings do not have extensive ammo supplies. They have to get their ammo from the Reg Force when they go to ranges or on exercise. Chances are that they are going to be just as fucked as the SDN crew. They could however fix bayonets and use them as pikes.

I figured as much. I'll take my chances with a regiment of soldiers as long as they're not infected. And if they are they'll be just as able to handle it, and better than ordinary people. And most of you are, no offense intended, ordinary people. Likely the soldiers will be working with police.

Brian

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2006-04-26 05:07pm

brianeyci wrote:
I figured as much. I'll take my chances with a regiment of soldiers as long as they're not infected. And if they are they'll be just as able to handle it, and better than ordinary people. And most of you are, no offense intended, ordinary people. Likely the soldiers will be working with police.

Brian

Fortunatly most armories are old brick buildings that are easily fortified and closed of from the outside, so the Reservists should be able to give you ample shelter. If the military is on the ball they will be distributing ammo from the central depot in CFB Borden using choppers and APC's with dozer blades to clear the way of offending zombies. And they will most likely be working with police, likely the War Powers Act will be invoked, so something akin to martial law will be in affect.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-26 05:18pm

Finally some sanity, thanks Cpl Kendall

.

Likely the police and military would set up evacuation shelters for people because they don't have the manpower to be running 911 calls everywhere. Schools, community centers, the Skydome (er Rogers Center) things like that. Police stations wouldn't be overrun unless they were taken by surprise and they'd be strong points (why not police stations are strong points in every zombie game I know

). I'm going to where the guns are.

Brian

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2006-04-26 05:31pm

Ideally a squad of infantry should be deployed with 2 cops with an APC or LAVIII/Grizzly for maximum firepower amd mobility and allow them to patrol and respond to calls for help in the maximum possible time. This will require Reg Force units to deploy to TO as Reserve Force units have little in the way of Mech assets, usually they have a few trucks and an Iltis for the CO. But the Reserve guys can help guard the Police station, Skydome, evac center, etc. And during the day can patrol on foot through the city, at night they'll have to pull back indoors due to a lack of night vision gear.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-04-26 05:37pm

too bad it's not 28 days later then we could at least take some aggressions out on PETA tards....

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-04-26 05:50pm

brianeyci wrote:I can imagine roadblocks and police and military with orders to shoot to kill anybody who violates those roadblocks. Also I can imagine shoot to kill for anybody who violates curfew.

I cannot imagine shoot to kill everybody who's possibly infected who follows the rules. Nuke on American soil? Politicians are always forward thinking. Ordering the shooting down of a single jet on a collision course for a building is one thing, but ordering the slaughter of an entire city or indiscriminate killings of their own civilians is another. And the military is sworn to protect us, so I can't imagine a General ordering his men to shoot-to-kill except for people crossing the quarantine line or violating curfew.

That's what I was talking about. I certainly wasn't saying the military and police would go door-to-door wiping out anyone thought infected.

The nuking is an extreme scenario that, in DotD at least, they never got to. But for Raccoon City, there was a clear and present danger that had to be dealt with and no sign of a vaccine. With the wildlife also infected and spreading to the surrounding forests, action had to be taken. Army pulls back and nukes the city. Problem solved. The alternative was letting the T-virus escape and become endemic, which is bad ju-ju to say the least.

I will follow the rules like a good citizen and let my government handle it. I will not steal from Costco (whose warehouses by the way is not in Toronto but in Toronto's outskirts, quite a bit aways from the downtown core), raid gas stations, steal a hummer, steal a ferry, steal firearms or anything else like that . You guys are welcome to, or try. Oh and it would be stealing, since most stores would be closed and what goods were available would be from people trying to extort you.

Brian

I would honestly try and seconder a ship or yacht and get as far away from land and population as possible with as many supplies as possible. Like the movie, I'd try and get us to go to some island in the hopes it hasn't any infection. To remain in the cities is suicide and the country will likely fare little better.

Getting with a military unit ASAP would be a good move.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-26 06:22pm

AV wrote:The alternative was letting the T-virus escape and become endemic, which is bad ju-ju to say the least.

I don't think any politician would have the balls to order a nuke on American soil to contain an epidemic. Unless he was being told by everyone around him a nuke was the only way to go, and had a recommendation from the NAS to nuke the city.

Brian

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2006-04-26 06:25pm

I think most of the posts are on the premise that at least all of the main Toronto area, besides SDN has already been fucked up. Competent armed forces or not.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-04-26 06:44pm

brianeyci wrote:
I don't think any politician would have the balls to order a nuke on American soil to contain an epidemic. Unless he was being told by everyone around him a nuke was the only way to go, and had a recommendation from the NAS to nuke the city.

Brian

Letting it spread and not only infect more countrymen, but possibly go abroad and harm other nations, would likely be far worse of a footnote for the history books regarding that administration than simply erasing one city. The greater good and all that, only on a larger scale than killing one criminal and some innocents to save a hundred. Remeber, we now consider hijacked airborne aeroplanes to be targets given the WTC attacks. What's a couple of hundred commuters on an airliner next to a whole skyscraper block with tens of thousands around?

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:I think most of the posts are on the premise that at least all of the main Toronto area, besides SDN has already been fucked up. Competent armed forces or not.

I'd say that's about it. Not exactly appealing odds when a city is in chaos around you and you're with a load of practical strangers in some building in the heart of it all.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-26 06:46pm

If the zombies had infested the city, it wouldn't just be in a few minutes or hours. It'd start over days, and I'd already know something was fucked up and I'd be with my family and I bet most of you would be too. The meet would have been cancelled.

Brian