[Discussion] Next Coliseum Match!

[Lagmonster]

More for the style than anything else, I'd love to see another Darth Wong vs. Kuroneko match on virtually any subject.

Get some titans into the ring who can legitimately deliver the spectacle of a real debate.

[Surlethe]

Forgive my ignorance, but how does this work? Is there a limit like, "The debate ends after five posts each or mutual consensus?" Are there any other rules governing the participants?

As far as I know, the rules are very flexible. The five-post limit was instated because Voluntaryist and I were taking a long time to respond to the debate, and Mike didn't want it to drag out more than a month and a half. The rules of evidence are a little stricter, and I think participants will generally adopt a more highbrow attitude, but other than that we're making it up as we go.

[Imperial Overlord]

Alyrium has informed me he would like to champion the pro-choice side, should a debate on abortion take place.

I'm all for feeding Invictus Chicken to him, with or without sauce.

[Lagmonster]

I've received a request via PM to suggest the following subjects, copied directly from their own words:

-Universal Healthcare

-Abortions in the 12th week of pregnancy (2nd trimester, close to median)

-A Nationalized college and graduate school admissions system where students are ranked and told where they are allowed to apply (i.e, top 30,000 students on SAT can apply to any top tier school, 10,000 below them can apply to middle tier schools, and so on). I understand that such a system already exists in Britain, but in the US it is very controversial.

-Barack Obama vs. John McCain (why not do a mock presidential debate with one McCain representative and one Obama representative).

[SirNitram]

I oppose the twelth week topic. The thread has shown that positions taken to justify making it a 'debate' are either eugenics via bad science, or bloviating to hide bullshit.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Alyrium has informed me he would like to champion the pro-choice side, should a debate on abortion take place.

I'm all for feeding Invictus Chicken to him, with or without sauce.

I second that. After all of Inshitus the Chicken's recent bullshit, he should be forced to debate Aly over abortion, and if he refuses to do it, he should get titled (not necessarily if he loses, but definitely if he refuses).

[Surlethe]

In addition to the possibility of feeding Invictus ChiKen to Alyrium, I'd like to resurrect this thread to propose a match facing a supporter of John McCain against a supporter of Barack Obama. Last Thursday, I approached CaptainChewbacca via PM, and he is cautiously interested in taking the McCain side in such a debate. Is there anyone who is willing to debate him? I'm interested; anyone else?

[Surlethe]

Several PMs in my inbox about this:

My net connection is touch and go right now and is in the maybe circle.

That said soon as I know for sure one way or another I'd be willing to go a few rounds with CaptainChewbacca.

As for Alyrium I'm Pro-Choice but I could take a shot at it. It could be interesting if we both had two debates. First myself on Pro-Life and Alyrium for Pro-Choice then a second one were we reverse our positions. I defend Choice and Alyrium defends Life.

Edit: and,

I'm also "cautiously interested" in debating Capt. Chewie, as an Obama supporter. I'm sure there are more eloquent people than me who could do a better job, but I'm willing.

He also adds that he is extremely busy right now, and would like to put it off (but obviously not until November).

Does anyone at all have any thoughts about these?

[Surlethe]

Some more PMs:

Hello Surlethe,

I was wondering if you would be able to pass onto the senate my interest in discussing modern art in the Coliseum. Its come up a couple of times and I think it is something that there is some real clashes in the board community. The particular subject would be agreed with anyone who wanted to target modern art and criticise it but I think it could be interesting.

I would also be willing to take the pro-Obama position if nobody else wants it, though its probably best if an American do it.

This proposal is interesting; it might be informative and interesting to actually nail down some definitions of "art" and what modern art is good for.

Honorable Representative in The Senate of the People of SD.Net

I am messaging you to signal my intent to accept the stated terms of a debate on abortion. First arguing the pro position, then the con. With the stipulation that different lines of argumentation must be employed in each round.

Such that: The arguments one party uses in the first round are not merely repeated in the second when the positions are reversed.

Also: should that fall through, I am willing to debate Chewie on the subject of the 2008 election.

And in general, if the subject comes up, I am generally willing to engage in debate on any number of topics, so whenever you want to throw someone to the proverbial lions, I hope that my name crops up as the being to be satiated.

As for a general list of things I am competent to debate...

Gay Rights of any Kind
Science , science policy, and research/medical ethics
Evolution of human behavior (or any behavior)
UHC
Abortion
Death penalty

things of that nature. you can pretty much consider my consent to those debates as a given.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Frigidmagi (magithis) IMed me and said he'd be willing to return to the board to debate as an Obama supporter on the Colosseum.

[Ender]

Very well. I will debate AD on the topic of Science, specifically evolution. I will take the stance defending it as valid scientific theory. He can have the other side - I guess that will be the stance defending creationism and promoting it as a superior alternative to evolution. If this is unacceptable I am willing to discuss Gay rights from the position that they deserve equity under the law with AD free to make any counter argument he so desires.

Need to learn to be more specific.


Honestly, I'd be interesting in a discussion of feminism WRT sexual "exploitation". This came up recently in my life as a result of a wet T-shirt contest, but there are also ads all over the place for dancers and stuff. The issue is one of in those situations (and to a lesser degree pornography or prostitution) is it exploitation or is it the woman seizing control of her own sexuality to have power in the situation. I've heard it argued both ways and remain unconvinced, so if any of our feminists want to talk that I think it could be interesting.

[SirNitram]

Frigidmagi (magithis) IMed me and said he'd be willing to return to the board to debate as an Obama supporter on the Colosseum.

I can confirm this and I would throw my two cents behind him as the choice if we go that route.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Very well. I will debate AD on the topic of Science, specifically evolution. I will take the stance defending it as valid scientific theory. He can have the other side - I guess that will be the stance defending creationism and promoting it as a superior alternative to evolution. If this is unacceptable I am willing to discuss Gay rights from the position that they deserve equity under the law with AD free to make any counter argument he so desires.

Need to learn to be more specific.


Honestly, I'd be interesting in a discussion of feminism WRT sexual "exploitation". This came up recently in my life as a result of a wet T-shirt contest, but there are also ads all over the place for dancers and stuff. The issue is one of in those situations (and to a lesser degree pornography or prostitution) is it exploitation or is it the woman seizing control of her own sexuality to have power in the situation. I've heard it argued both ways and remain unconvinced, so if any of our feminists want to talk that I think it could be interesting.

Myself, Debi (who rarely to never posts now anyway), and the other staunch and intellectual feminist I can think of here, Eris, are all sex-positive, though, and I really haven't seen the attitudes on any of the board's feminists to suggest any of them thought to the contrary, though someone is welcome to correct me with that, since it's just an evaluation of stated opinions and beliefs. I seriously, seriously doubt that even Broomstick holds the opinions, either, though she might, being of an older generation, know enough about the general attitude to argue the point effectively?

I'll let her weigh in there; when this issue is brought up, all I can think about are nutty wombynists who go to the Mich every year and when the sanitation crew comes to pump out the sanicans have women who march in front of the truck screaming out the warning of "MAN ON THE LAND!" and make sure they do the work as rapidly as possible.

[Imperial Overlord]

Frigidmagi (magithis) IMed me and said he'd be willing to return to the board to debate as an Obama supporter on the Colosseum.

I can confirm this and I would throw my two cents behind him as the choice if we go that route.

frigid is an excellent choice and I'm all for anything that brings him back to the board.

[Hotfoot]

Frigid in the fire, should be interesting. I'd like to see that.

[Lagmonster]

A topic fresh on the menu that I'd like to see:

I'd like to see Diomedes against any number of volunteers in a debate on the subject of men vs. women as full-time parents.

[Gil Hamilton]

I was thinking. It's hard to get a good coliseum debate out of SDN because alot of the big issues here have already been hammered out internally. So, why not go external? Invite someone with a different view on the issue of Peak Oil or something from, say, Spacebattles and host the coliseum event. I'm sure their will be more takers, since the big fear most people have in stepping into SDN is that they are going to be dogpiled and berated out of the discussion. The Coliseum, where only one person can respond and can have set rules, seems like a good draw.

[Surlethe]

I was thinking. It's hard to get a good coliseum debate out of SDN because alot of the big issues here have already been hammered out internally. So, why not go external? Invite someone with a different view on the issue of Peak Oil or something from, say, Spacebattles and host the coliseum event. I'm sure their will be more takers, since the big fear most people have in stepping into SDN is that they are going to be dogpiled and berated out of the discussion. The Coliseum, where only one person can respond and can have set rules, seems like a good draw.

That's a good idea. There's also something to be said about ruthlessly moderating the comment thread to eliminate spam, me-toos, and even arguments that have already been put forward by the contestants or other posters. That way, the comment thread doesn't turn into an indirect dogpile.

[Surlethe]

Two comments:

Anyway, maybe there should just not be a comments thread until after the debate? Or maybe just strictly ban outsider rebuttles in there (certainly that point-by-point quoting nonsense).

After all, what's the point of the Coliseum if there's going to be a bunch of outsiders "debating in absentia" anyway? Plus, as we saw last time, it's pretty easy for one of the participents to get themselves involved in it; after all, somebody is in there arguing against them! So they either have to ignore it, thus giving those people free passes to argue without having to face off to it...or we get those damn side arguments and totally defeat the purpose of the Coliseum in the first place.

Just my two cents.

Another person pointed out that asking frigid to debate is a great idea, since he's practically at SB anyway and has a different opinion than the board majority.

[Imperial Overlord]

Alyrium is interested in debating the pro gay marriage side against Kodiak's anti. That sounds good to me.

[Gil Hamilton]

I agree, let Aly fight Kodiak in the Coliseum, though I'm sure there are alot of people who could take it up.

EDIT: I would like to suggest a rules stipulation. In any inevitable comment threat, I'd like to see it moderated so that backseat debating is barred. In a Coliseum match, the audience don't throw spears at one gladiator and in a debate we can't have the crowd post point by point rebuttals in the comment thread. They can discuss what the combatants say to each other or whether one or another has a good point, but I would rather everyone not indirect dogpile anyone.

[CmdrWilkens]

Currently in that thread there are about 3 or 4 folks who were volunteering to do batle so I'd rather think that we ought to recommend the thread be temporarily locked and a non-binding vote be held to determine who the Anti Prop 8 candidate would be to go against kodiak.

That would be my recommendation, also I say non-binding because I can't do a vote notification before Thursday since I am on a business trip to Atlanta.

[Gil Hamilton]

Probably a sharp plan. Alyrium seems the most eager, but we can get a good debate with alot of people who'd be willing to go in against Kodiak on the issue.

[Lagmonster]

The Kodiak vs. Someone debate seems like such an obviously good idea that I suggest bypassing Senate votes altogether and going right to administration with it.

[CmdrWilkens]

Well, looks like this won't be neccessarry after all.