[Discussion] Self-Appointed Deputy Mods

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Post by Sea Skimmer » 2007-08-17 05:54pm

I support punishment for Einhander; the others don’t register on my shinny new AESA forum scanning radar as being a significant issue. The individual acts are just not that bad, and I think they just went along without thinking when a long term member proposed something to them, and that can be excused, this time. None of them seem like people who won’t have learned a lesson already, but we can always keep this incident in mind should they go and do something else in the future. I do not support any kind of collective punishment.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2007-08-17 09:29pm

I think that they should have some sort of punishment registered even if it's for a short period of time. Would there be a consensus on sig & av removal by those who currently support no punishment, if it were for a shorter period of time than six months, as a way of reaching a broad-based agreement on a formal means of censuring them without inflicting excess hardship on them?
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Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2007-08-17 09:39pm

mind you I've sent a lot of newbies PMs in my time.

sometimes with links to the appropreate portions of the announcements section.
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Post by Knife » 2007-08-17 10:56pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: Would there be a consensus on sig & av removal by those who currently support no punishment, if it were for a shorter period of time than six months, as a way of reaching a broad-based agreement on a formal means of censuring them without inflicting excess hardship on them?
Under the current argument for it, I do not think I can condone such a move at this time.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

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Post by CmdrWilkens » 2007-08-17 11:18pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:I think that they should have some sort of punishment registered even if it's for a short period of time. Would there be a consensus on sig & av removal by those who currently support no punishment, if it were for a shorter period of time than six months, as a way of reaching a broad-based agreement on a formal means of censuring them without inflicting excess hardship on them?
I honestly think that for the sheep the consensus is fairly tilted towards no action (aside from the very public slap on the wrist which is a senate thread on the matter) while the shepherd is attracting much more notice for reprisal.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2007-08-17 11:55pm

I would concur with that greg.

mind you Ein/Dave is on my friend's list, and he's publically offered to fall on the sword for this, in order to save the sheep.

hmmm roman history....
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2007-08-18 12:04am

Every single one of them could have and should have refused Einy's advances, and the SPC, certainly, has been a long-standing member with very little reason to be called unfamiliar or new--he's been here for years--as just one example. A formal punishment, however token, should at least be brought up for the whole Senate to have a straight-up vote on, I would submit. There is no harm in the Senate deciding, but it should at least be put to vote. I will propose a mere two-month suspension of sig and av privileges and ask that we let the Senate decide in polling on whether or not it should be levied against them all.

If this measure does not garner support I will consider the matter closed, but I remain very much in favour of some form of collective punishment for the Deputy Mod Five.
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Post by Coyote » 2007-08-18 12:09am

I know: pick the names of four members of an obnoxious Boy Band, like the Backstreet Boys or something, and make that their custom titles for, say, 6 months. The more, um, flamboyant the band, the better.
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Post by Knife » 2007-08-18 12:23am

Coyote wrote:I know: pick the names of four members of an obnoxious Boy Band, like the Backstreet Boys or something, and make that their custom titles for, say, 6 months. The more, um, flamboyant the band, the better.
*snort* er...I mean seconded.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

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Post by LadyTevar » 2007-08-18 01:26am

Haven't they all come forward to apologize and take responsiblity for their actions?

Then let Einy make his sacrifice. Punish the shepherd and let the sheep go away with a Post Reset at most.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2007-08-18 01:49am

hmm. speaking about something along with what was also suggested, and my comment about Ein falling on the sword in a roman like why....

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Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2007-08-18 02:00am

ignore the schitzoid suggestion.

I'm officially throwing my lot in with Tevar and the minimum punishment for the children who followed Ein on his little crusade.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2007-08-18 11:40am

Well, what is the minimum punishment we could dish out, then? Tev suggests a post count reset, do we generally feel post counts are the least important thing?
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Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2007-08-18 12:23pm

Yeah thats about it, also since post count is one of the factors in applying for special groups.....
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2007-08-18 12:45pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Yeah thats about it, also since post count is one of the factors in applying for special groups.....
Resets don't disqualify people from groups they're already in, to my knowledge, so that's reasonable.

Will you second a measure to put to vote a post recount for our four miscreant flunkies?
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Post by LadyTevar » 2007-08-18 12:46pm

I will second measure the Post Recount.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2007-08-18 12:53pm

Then if anyone objects to letting the whole Senate body decide on the fate of our four minor miscreants in the form of a vote on resetting their post-counts, let them speak now..
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Post by Knife » 2007-08-18 12:58pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Then if anyone objects to letting the whole Senate body decide on the fate of our four minor miscreants in the form of a vote on resetting their post-counts, let them speak now..
This Senator will not stand in the way of an up or down vote on the measure. However, for the official record, for those mindless members of the apple dumpling gang that followed along in Ein's offense should not be branded for such a stupid yet small infraction.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

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Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2007-08-18 12:58pm

Just to emphasize that these people are hardly innocent themselves, here's a two and a half year member of the board, last post, declaring:

SPC Brungardt wrote:A ... PM would be nice? I found out about this now on an instant message? I feel so uninformed... Neutral

I'm guilty of course and it won't happen again.

I'll do that one thing I hesitate to do in uniform though and volunteer information: I'm not exactly feeling a twinge of guilt.
I'd motion for him to be held in contempt if we had such a regulation.
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Post by Frank Hipper » 2007-08-18 01:10pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Just to emphasize that these people are hardly innocent themselves, here's a two and a half year member of the board, last post, declaring:

SPC Brungardt wrote:A ... PM would be nice? I found out about this now on an instant message? I feel so uninformed... Neutral

I'm guilty of course and it won't happen again.

I'll do that one thing I hesitate to do in uniform though and volunteer information: I'm not exactly feeling a twinge of guilt.
I'd motion for him to be held in contempt if we had such a regulation.
I'm glad you brought this up, it's not like Einhander led these poor virgins astray or anything, despite the idea originating with him.

They should all recieve the same treatment as far as I'm concerned. Vigilantism sucks, but chat-toughguy-clique vigilantism needs to be oppressed, harshly.
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Post by Broomstick » 2007-08-18 04:31pm

To my mind there IS a distinction between pm'ing someone with an unsolicited "hey, I think you ought to cool your jets/check your facts/take a break/remember this particular rule" and an organized spamming of an individual. The former is something most do from time to time, or have done to us, and I don't have a problem with it because it can defuse volitile situations. The latter is not done - moderators handle formal warnings, and they do so in a formal manner and not en masse.

It's not the fact they sent pm's that I have issue with, it's that the organized to send the message multiple times which leads to an atmosphere of intimidation. I don't mind arguments that wind up as mud-wrestling in the gutter (obviously, given some of the debates I've been in) but I most certainly DO object to organized packs ganging up on an individual.
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Post by fgalkin » 2007-08-18 04:36pm

I do not believe that the "muscle" warrant anything more than a warning. Einy can be punished pour encourager les autres, but the others have done absolutely nothing to get anything more serious.

Have a very nice day.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2007-08-18 04:41pm

fgalkin wrote:I do not believe that the "muscle" warrant anything more than a warning. Einy can be punished pour encourager les autres, but the others have done absolutely nothing to get anything more serious.

Have a very nice day.
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*shrugs* Then vote that way, and state why. I have no interest in the vote going one way or another myself, I just figured the best way to settle a somewhat divided opinion is to actually call a vote on a broadly acceptable punishment and just see where it falls.
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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-08-18 04:45pm

I have to go to a party in an hour, so I'm going to try to make this brief.

I don't think resetting the post-count should be done. For one thing, its a permanant action, and thus (in my mind) a more serious penalty, especially for some "long-time" members.

Custom Titles, on the other hand, have lost alot of the "uniqueness" that they once had, and they're more easily reversible at a later date should we wish. To me, CT tend to be handed out like they were fucking M&Ms, and thus are the LEAST of the offenses.

Sig and Avatar priveleges are somewhere in between. Not irreparable punishments, but something far more than a custom title (since it basically denies a poster their "personality".)

Since there are some people who DO seem to feel that a more stringent punishment be neccesary, maybe we should make it clear to them that the six month period is for them to demonstrate they have behaved. If they break the rules in ANY way again, their punishments may be extended, or further punishments may be exacted - which can include the post recounts - at Admin/Mod/Senate approval. The fact that they are "miscreants" can probably be used as an excuse to apply less "tolerance" to their infractions than we would to the rest of the forum. And at the end of the punishment period, if they've done nothing wrong, then we can review the case (and probably lift it.)

Edit: and since we've apparently yet to decide the matter regarding the other four minions and their stupidity, I am completely ignoring that poll. I simply refuse to vote until we decide what the appropriate punishment should be. This isn't "insta-trial" - and there's nothing wrong with taking time with it, despite what some seem to think.

There's still Ein, where his fate seems more unanimous, and chitty, likewise.

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Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2007-08-18 04:52pm

double secret probation?
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