[Discussion] Sandbox for new members

[InnerBrat]

I received this in PM from a non-Senate member:

I regularily browse TK and as much as i hate the place they have a really good way of dealing with spammy assholes. When you register there you are restricted to the Minefield till an admin lets you leave. Spammers are then relegated back there when they fuck up. I think this is a good idea for dealing with tards like Jericho Kross and Sephirus plus it adds an extra punishment shy of banning a member.

Now I, IB, don't think this is necessary, as I like to assume people aren't spammers before they start spamming. I'd rather be dealing out punishments when we need to rather than making people earn the privilege of posting (considering that we already have the $10 voluntary donation).

Nevertheless, I don't see why this can't be brought to you guys, as a possibility at least

[Dalton]

They have something like this over at SB. I wish our board software permitted it.

[fgalkin]

I have suggested limiting trolls' posting ability to the HoS since the day we had it. If the board software would allow it, I would definitely support a n00b/punishment forum of some sort.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Mad]

The board software is open source, so a modification that allows any of the behavior mentioned thus far is most definitely possible. SDN has several programmers who could make the changes (myself included). (Whether or not the admins would approve of the changes is another matter.)

That said, I'm not convinced the change would be needed. As far as I can tell, only a small fraction of new members stir up trouble. And as a punishment, it'd be a step below a temporary ban. Given how few temp bans are given (compared to permanent bans), I'm inclined to think such a step wouldn't be used very often, in the long run.

[fgalkin]

Hotfoot asked me to relay this.

By the way, the sandbox thing IS possible with the current board software. It's just not easy to do. If you were to make all of the forums except for the "sandbox" private forums, you could then make a usergroup for forum members in good standing which gave access just to the normal forums. Removal from the usergroup would then regulate the offender to only the "sandbox".

The problem, of course, is creating a new usergroup which includes all of the current board members. If you made it an open usergroup and made joining easy for everyone right off the bat, then locked it up once the bulk of the board was in it, it would work. After that it would be simple to add someone to the list as they registered with the board (or after a probationary period).

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[InnerBrat]

Got another PM from someone else:

My first thought about this is, we're putting more unnecessary work on the admins especially when it's really not needed. The occasional two or three spammers can easily be dealt with as we have seen already. To have the admins allow new users access only the sandbox first and then finally to the board is just adding an extra unneeded step.

My second thought is, how do you decide they're spammers when the most likely type of discussion are introductions?

I agree with this one, by the way, and I reiterate that I prefer to condemn for cimres than force people to prove themselves first.

[Edi]

A sandbox is useless. Someone who turns out to be a spammy moron will get warned. If that doesn't help, the next most likely thing is an immediate ban/titling poll here, and we've all seen how those turn out. By the time it gets to that point, the matter of guilt is fairly clear and the only thing in question is degree of punishment.

[Edi]

Some further elaboration, courtesy of Ace Pace:

Who the hell will actully join the forum, when they'll be forced to spend X time in a forum where no one will actully post(why should real members post there?), trying to 'prove themselves'(whatever that means)?
The entire idea is flawed from start to end.
If someone wants to implement sane limits, consider modding the board software to limit new users in differant fashions, such as no image links, etc. rather then trying to artificially force them to 'prove themselves'.

Which is a sentiment I wholeheartedly agree with. I sure as fuck would not even consider joining some forum that relegated me to some kiddie-corral instead of allowing full posting rights on the public forums. Being made a member of a specific specialized user group or being inducted into the Senate and so forth, they already have requirements above and beyond those of normal forum posting. How many of the present members, even Senators, would we have if we had had a sandbox earlier?

This whole sandbox discussion serves no other purpose than to make us look like complete fucking idiots.

[Coyote]

We really aren't deluged with such an amount of spammers that it is necessary. We have already set up a "toll booth" to get in here for most casual, non-paying emailers, and we generally have a pretty good opportunity for play when morons show up...

I say, unecessary.

[Frank Hipper]

This whole sandbox discussion serves no other purpose than to make us look like complete fucking idiots.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Coyote]

Addendum:

Adding yet another tier to the system is counter-productive. I'm sure that a sociologist would be fascinated to observe & chart the growth of the overall society here on SDN, the stratification of power & class, etc, etc here.

As cardiac-arrest-inducing as it may seem I am in agreement with Keevan: when did we become the US senate? I've been uneasy with the notion that the Senate itself is a "reward" for good posters; that makes it a pinnacle to achieve-- and until you achieve it, you're just a bum. That make the Senate the goal of the board, and the rest of the board, essentially, the "sandbox" for the weeding out of chaff from wheat.

A management arm exists to serve the betterment of the masses; not become the raison d'etre for all to orbit 'round. The Senate exists as a utilty-- help Mike police the board so he and the mods aren't the only ones serving as fire brigades, act as a sounding board... really, if the Senate is a little-used forum that only get activated from time to time to serve an immediate need, then that is the actual mark of success.

Let's just not complicate things further.