How do YOU see the board?

A failed experiment whereby board users were invited to advise the Senate, and instead attempted to replace the Senate.
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How do YOU see the board?

Post by fgalkin » 2008-11-11 08:17pm

In the course of the current shitstorm, I have discovered some members saying that they feel outright intimidated by the Senators and staff. That surprised me a lot, honestly, because I don't exactly see myself, or most of my colleagues, as intimidating. So, I guess I am out of touch with the board at large, or at least with a segment of its membership. And I realized that for some reason, people feel safer here in Testing than on the board at large.

So, what I'm asking is, how do you see the board, and its different forums? OSF, OT, N&P, HOS, Testing, etc. And why do you think we mods are intimidating? Is it our power? Our flaming? Our postcounts? Our scary avatars?

Have a very nice day.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by RedImperator » 2008-11-11 08:21pm

I'm very curious about this as well.

EDIT: Off-topic rules apply here, folks.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by rhoenix » 2008-11-11 08:22pm

To be honest, my name was called up before the Senate exactly once, and that was once too many for me. Ever since, I've left all the dick-sword-combat to the others, and stuck to posting a few interesting articles and offering an opinion, question, or conclusion every once in a while.

...So basically, nothing changed, really.

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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Masami von Weizegger » 2008-11-11 08:38pm

Whether it begun through irony, through mimicking the Imperial Army which was the overwhelming focus of the board during the SW versus ST days or something else, moderators and, to an extent, other highly regarded members have always acted in an excessively authoritarian guise, simply for, I guess, shits and giggles.

But when this continues day after day, week after week and so on for six years, I can understand why some members mainly remember the "I am the fucking shit and you are scum, topic locked, fuckbag" posts and not the other 99% of posts made by such moderators.

I mean, let's take even "plebs". It's a joke, a term that gets thrown around; "oh, you're the plebs, we are the masters, oh ho ho ho". There's nothing really wrong with it. But what if all the majority remembers is the throwing of such terms combined with the sometimes excessive authoritarianism.

That's not to say that either is actually an issue. I don't really believe it is a problem 99% of the time, but it certainly would explain a bit of the "the moderators are evil and wish to kill us all" attitude.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Dark Hellion » 2008-11-11 08:42pm

I generally see it on my laptop. Sometimes a use a monitor and occasionally a cell phone. Oh... wait, I see what you are getting it.

Personally, I think there is a very diverse population amongst the senior "staff" of the board. Some are very approachable, like Stas, or Wilkens, or even Mr. Wong himself. Others are downright frightening and pissing them off in any way seems to get board powers brought against you. Perhaps I don't have the same experience as others, but fighting against mods about their decisions seems like a completely futile struggle unless you get a higher mod on the totem poll on your side. This powerlessness is probably what is being expressed. If a mod really wanted to, they could HOS the crap outta an unpopular poster and no recourse would exist unless Wong or one of the super-mods actually wanted to waste the time to defend them.

This is even further exaccerbated by the fact that the easiest person on the entire board staff to disagree with is Mr. Wong himself. Despite having the most broad reaching powers on the board, his use of this power never replaces his argumentation and he actively refutes positions he dislikes, and if he cannot concedes to them. Against other mods, such concessions could never take place because the thread would already be HOSed, Locked and bringing up the point again for another x months will probably get you on the short list to bansville.

We still don't have Gundam vs. Real World debates in OSF, even after 5 years because of the early Gundam vs. Kursk mess of Skimmer/Shep/Dendrobium/myself and other. We don't have debates about a number of very open, calculable topics because doing so will open someone of powers old wounds, or is a topic they dislike and as such cannot open real debate with the culture as is.
Last edited by Dark Hellion on 2008-11-11 08:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2008-11-11 08:47pm

You know, that is an interesting point. I saw the Senate as being the Imperial Senate, right from the start. We have behaved like Imperials, running an authoritarian regime, right from the start--and I'll readily acknowledge that that's how I saw my position and role. I mean, it is called the Imperial Senate, and it's a mechanism to make easier the administration of the board by a person referred to as the Emperor of the board. That's explicit in the Senate rules. So my belief of how to act in the Senate was, certainly, informed by that.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Mr. Coffee » 2008-11-11 08:48pm

Wait, someone thinks you guys are intimidating? Wow...

Ok, to the board scaredy cats, look at me. I've made fun of, fucked with, and just plain pointed and laughed at most of the Senate and not a few mods. Don't be scared of these guys, give them a little respect if you feel they deserve it, but don't be afraid of them. As long as you don't actually break board rules, the worst they can do is call you a fuckhat.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Rye » 2008-11-11 08:49pm

Nope. Either I'm not fucking up enough to warrant moderation, the mods like me or they're too lazy to bother with me. I find a couple of mods irritating, most of them cool, one in particular I find to be a glaring example of inconsistency and nepotism, but it's not worth kicking a fuss up over.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Ar-Adunakhor » 2008-11-11 08:52pm

Let's play Count The 9000+'s

Did he really deserve all this for using excessive ellipses?

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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Rye » 2008-11-11 08:57pm

Ar-Adunakhor wrote:Let's play Count The 9000+'s

Did he really deserve all this for using excessive ellipses?
Yeah. They're fucking annoying!
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by General Zod » 2008-11-11 08:59pm

Ar-Adunakhor wrote:Let's play Count The 9000+'s

Did he really deserve all this for using excessive ellipses?
Considering he used them for virtually every . . .single . . .post. . . in every. . .single. . .thread. . . ? Yes.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by RedImperator » 2008-11-11 09:04pm

We're not having a debate about Ray here. Save it for another time.
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Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Dark Hellion » 2008-11-11 09:06pm

So what Zuul. You have to spend 5 minutes of your life annoyed. Shit dog, I feel so fucking sorry for you.

This is the whole fucking point people have been trying to make again and again and again, and somehow you thick skulled motherfuckers don't get it. So I'll put it in the only language you seem to understand. Ray was fucking annoying, he used a shitload of ellipsis and has terrible fucking grammar. So the fuck what. A mod can HOS it, say Ray start using better grammar, and then lock it and be done. Instead we had the whole fucking block crowding around looking at the fire and chatting up the firemen who are supposed to put out the fire and actively pouring on more gas. You think Ray learned anything from the people who just joined that thread to flame him? The people who tried to help him taught him something, but guess what, they did it without a single fucking insult.

Not every fucking offense needs to be flamed to a crisp. Not every minor board offense needs to be attacked as if it is a fucking slight to the board. Doing so makes us seem like stupid vindictive assholes and we are. We have become so enraptured in this stupid fucking we are epic flamewarriors persona we act like a retarded fucking LARP club who instead of making chain-mail and beating each other with Styrofoam swords try to invent a new your mom joke or think what is next up on the hierarchy from Cockmunching queef licker. And its fucking sad and pathetic, and finally getting to tell you stupid shitheads off for being rude spoiled brats who squandered your power for the sake of slightly better flame is the most satisfying thing I have done on this board.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by That NOS Guy » 2008-11-11 09:12pm

As I've already taken the precaution of bribery I fear nothing.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Rye » 2008-11-11 09:21pm

DH? Hey, DH?
RedImperator wrote:We're not having a debate about Ray here. Save it for another time.
It's entirely likely that in that specific case, the response was due to the user's actions, rather than the board/mod/etc character. Everyone else manages to post without annotating the moments the hamsters in their heads stop running in their wheels and I would like to take a moment to thank everyone for that. Whatever "gain" a single person gets from filling their post up with ellipses isn't worth it if they're pissing everyone off in doing it. It's really not gentlemanly to everyone if you throw out constant, annoying antigrammar. It's a bad example to point to if you're going to fly the flag of unwarranted intimidation.

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Nowadays everybody wanna talk like they got something to say
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And muthafuckas act like they forgot about Ray
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by RedImperator » 2008-11-11 09:25pm

Second warning: enough about Ray.
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Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Ar-Adunakhor » 2008-11-11 09:28pm

My apologies for bringing up what seems to be a huge shitstorm, I meant it more as an example. My point is this: I know I will eventually fuck up somewhere along the line, but I have difficulty anticipating the reaction or what the flames will be like. I don't want to send threads into a spiral of flames and vitrol but the standards for what people jump on you for seem to vary enormously. I look at Ray's thread there and think "Damn, better watch those ellipses." And woah there Hellion, that's... a bit much man. Nobody here is that bad.

Edit: Also, I think I'll retract my previous statement in the HoS saying I supported what he said. This is starting to reek of personal vendetta and I'll be damned if that's what I'm advocating. I stand by my comments, of course.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Dark Hellion » 2008-11-11 09:30pm

Oh Zuul-y Zuul-y Zuul-y, you missed the entire point. Lets replace Ray and his ellipsis with Duchess and one of her dramatic moments. Does anything about my point change? No, it doesn't. My post was never about Ray, despite what you think. It was about the fact that instead of enlightening a wayward member, or having the moderators (the staff who handle problem posters) we let every fucking Tom, Dick, and Jane take a fucking shot because, fairs fair right? We have a socialism of flames. Everyone gets one flame against the Capitalist Pigs.

But this is a horrible system, and it is clearly burning our house down. We can't just expect flames to force posters into compliance. Look up statistics on negative reinforcement and it will be blatantly clear exactly why. We just teach new posters to act macho, cuss a lot and never ever back down, because to back down is to have your opponent dance around like someone who won the fucking superbowl. When all they did was quote some asinine statistic the other poster was mistaken about, or find the logical flaw in his argument. Great, logic prevailed, and you looked like giant douchebag. Victory sure was yours wasn't it.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by ray245 » 2008-11-11 09:32pm

At the least, the board is much more restrained. I am used to people attacking me in a very heated manner, but it still rather annoying. Maybe it is due to my experience as a military cadet, getting screwed upside down every other week or my mother having this dominating personality. When she scoulded me as a kid, her voice can be heard 10 floors below.

In regards to ellipses, perhaps it is due to the fact that I am so used to typing things out in real time for a while. However, I am trying to correct that.

I remember a few years ago, the last time I am so angry with another board member, is due to him insulting my family as a whole. If I did not restrain myself, that topic will end up as a flame fest. I hate to flame people, and I hate to assault or even punch anyone at all in real life as a kid or teenager in school.

I think to some extend, SD.net is an demostration of the internet tough guy/girl mentality. Like you have to act tough and abusive in the internet. One reason I hate to get into debates is the constant personal insults being thrown around in the past.

It is funny as a society to criticise politicians for running a negative campaign, when most people in a debate on the internet will do the same thing as well.


I think one useful way to cool people down in a debate is to add a smiley at the end of your post. :)
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Ar-Adunakhor » 2008-11-11 09:49pm

Crossposted to the HoS thread and bowing out unless anyone has specific questions, as these two threads pretty much detail my entire position.

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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Rye » 2008-11-11 09:50pm

Dark Hellion wrote:But this is a horrible system, and it is clearly burning our house down. We can't just expect flames to force posters into compliance. Look up statistics on negative reinforcement and it will be blatantly clear exactly why. We just teach new posters to act macho, cuss a lot and never ever back down, because to back down is to have your opponent dance around like someone who won the fucking superbowl. When all they did was quote some asinine statistic the other poster was mistaken about, or find the logical flaw in his argument. Great, logic prevailed, and you looked like giant douchebag. Victory sure was yours wasn't it.
I'm not sure whether it would be continuation of the ray argument or not to point out the post directly after yours is not full of ellipses. Hopefully not. Duchess has proclaimed herself subject to a big ideology shift, Kodiak was convinced to vote for Obama. I'm sure lots more people were convinced of various positions who were merely reading threads and we never heard of it. All with the same mods and the occasional dogpile. Yeah, they're annoying, but I don't think you can seriously argue that it just doesn't effect change.

I would say, however, that the over-enthusiasm for "clean" OT or whatever has driven entertaining threads like these to testing. I'd definitely put that as a sticking point for making things potentially lamer.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by VF5SS » 2008-11-11 10:23pm

Dark Hellion wrote:
We still don't have Gundam vs. Real World debates in OSF, even after 5 years because of the early Gundam vs. Kursk mess of Skimmer/Shep/Dendrobium/myself and other.
Yeah I'll admit I'm pretty relieved that the Macross and Gundams threads I started here haven't turned to shit.

And if you want to talk about intimidation, you guys are the tops. Especially in N&P now. I used to watch the threads and wait for SirNitram to drop his "lying sack of shit" bomb on someone. You guys grilled people with an amazing ferocity. You guys are the big dogs nobody messes with.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by ray245 » 2008-11-11 10:30pm

Zuul wrote:
Dark Hellion wrote:But this is a horrible system, and it is clearly burning our house down. We can't just expect flames to force posters into compliance. Look up statistics on negative reinforcement and it will be blatantly clear exactly why. We just teach new posters to act macho, cuss a lot and never ever back down, because to back down is to have your opponent dance around like someone who won the fucking superbowl. When all they did was quote some asinine statistic the other poster was mistaken about, or find the logical flaw in his argument. Great, logic prevailed, and you looked like giant douchebag. Victory sure was yours wasn't it.
I'm not sure whether it would be continuation of the ray argument or not to point out the post directly after yours is not full of ellipses. Hopefully not. Duchess has proclaimed herself subject to a big ideology shift, Kodiak was convinced to vote for Obama. I'm sure lots more people were convinced of various positions who were merely reading threads and we never heard of it. All with the same mods and the occasional dogpile. Yeah, they're annoying, but I don't think you can seriously argue that it just doesn't effect change.

I would say, however, that the over-enthusiasm for "clean" OT or whatever has driven entertaining threads like these to testing. I'd definitely put that as a sticking point for making things potentially lamer.
I want a serious discussion in the off-topic section. I think it is better to rename the testing section, the funny section instead.

And other than that, I hope attacks against a person's background and family/friends can be avoided.
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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by JointStrikeFighter » 2008-11-11 10:32pm

Out of curiosity what was happening in gundam vs IRL threads that was so horrible?

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Re: How do YOU see the board?

Post by Dark Hellion » 2008-11-11 10:44pm

Honestly, nothing, which was the point I was making. It would open some sore spots for some old posters if a new one came up, because the dynamics of the two sides is different. But no one will make it because the HAB will instantly napalm the thread the shit. Same with any thread about the Triad from B5 because Adarx killed it.

A lot of topics are simply undebatable in OSF because there is too much butt hurt about some thread from half a decade ago.
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