Re: Why did China unite and Europe fail to?
Posted: 2013-07-24 09:46am
I think this is too much of a swing in the opposite direction. I would argue that even relatively undisciplined pike and shot formations, like the swiss militia or the Landsknechts of the Thirty Years war could stand up to cavalry reasonably well, as could other quickly raised forces like the saxon shield walls in the past etc. It always is a question of location and tactical conditions IMO.Irbis wrote:Well, there were several more impressive Hussar victories against Russian quasi pike-and-shot formations, but I did not include them as you could argue most of these were against badly disciplined levies that cavalry could break. I picked Swedes as these had no such issues, at least compared to any contemporary infantry.Thanas wrote:I wouldn't call that an example of Hussars being able to trample through enemy formations at will, note how this only happened because the Swedes had to disperse their formations due to enemy fire/their own cavalry running through them. I very much doubt the Hussars would have been able to charge through pike and shot infantry with intact formations.
Anyway, the main point was that claim that heavy cavalry wasn't decisive and infantry always reigned was dumb. Pike and shot or not, infantry is very soft and easy to break. Without training and discipline at least on par with say Roman Legion or early modern Line Infantry formations you might as well not bother against any competent cavalry.
Still, there is a limit on how much you can disperse and the ridiculous low number of casualties on the Polish side speaks against any focused fire. It looks like most of the swedes didn't even get off one shot.I'd say it was less due to Swedes being unable to focus them, it was more due to the fact usual Hussar charge was very dispersed and only tightened ranks just before impact, precisely to avoid massed gun or bow volleys demolishing front ranks (as fallen horse is huge threat to everyone riding behind)
Yeah, but the Hussars are different than western knights. More closer related to Gendarmes. "Knight" denotes a special role in society.Polish Hussars, or Hungarian style (later copied in West) ones? Because yes, normal Hussars were light cavalry, Polish formation had much more in common looking at battlefield role and equipment with knights than them, IMHO.