Thanas wrote:Germany is negotiating or has negotiated those things with her former colonies and is already being sued for such a thing by hereros. There were also reperations payments for WWII. Maybe you just have not been following the news? Plenty of groups demand restitution. It is just that most nations ignore most claims.
I do recall reading about Germany, now that you mention it. It has been a while though.
Sure, there were reparations in WWII, that's pretty typical of the losing side isn't it? I mean they were forced to pay for a lot of things. As far as I'm aware, Germany has gone through great pains to right some of the wrongs conducted by the Nazis even after the fact.
I will be quite honest, I don't normally watch the news, like ever. Too depressing and I feel helpless to do anything about some of the horrors I hear about. What's worse is these things are being discovered and yet, nobody does much of anything REAL to do anything about it - and I mean those that have the resources TO do things. The US steps in when there is OIL to be had...shameful. There's only so much that "raising awareness" does, then you get "charities" - albeit some do good.
Broomstick wrote:S'alright - the thing is, I don't get into pissing matches about whose ancestors have been more oppressed than someone else's. Pretty much everyone has an atrocity in their background if you dig hard enough.
I was embarrassed for not being considerate enough to think that there may be members on this board with ancestral atrocities committed to them. I realize how stupid my initial comment to you was. I could've commented without that opening. It was insensitive of me to assume that you couldn't possibly relate from an ancestral perspective.
Broomstick wrote:What happened during WWII during the Holocaust is pretty well documented, but it's understandable that many are reluctant to really delve into the details or think about what actually happened to people as individuals rather than statistics.
I am not at all reluctant. I have spent a lot of time watching and reading about WWII and the Holocaust. It was one of my most favorite subjects all through High School in History class. I didn't have to read but the first few words of your initial reply to know what you were talking about. The bad thing though is that it was taught to me with a veneer of Right-Wing Fundamentalist mentality because of the private Christian school I went to. I've had to do a lot to flush all of that stupidity and nonsense out of my mind.
Broomstick wrote:Yes, American slavery was brutal and horrible and another instance of people being treated like cattle - but in that case the cattle were worth more alive than dead (usually) and thus they were not subjected to systematic mass extermination (although there were times and places slaves were worked to death in the western hemisphere). Is that better or worse? Is that question even worth asking?
To me, no it really isn't. There is no reason why anyone should consider evaluating which is the lesser evil. Atrocities are just that, and we should learn as much as we can about them, their development, causes as to acceptance; so that eventually we can stop future ones from happening.
Broomstick wrote:Oppression generally doesn't end quickly.
Quite a few other groups might be able to make a case for reparations but may not have a public soapbox on which to voice their desires. The notion of reparations is also something I think took off during the 20th Century.
There are also cultural reasons - some cultures are open to the notion of "blood money" and others find offering financial compensation for this sort of thing to be insulting.
You make an excellent point here regarding the cultural view of financial compensation being insulting. In that regard, I think if that is an issue, would these same cultural views be ok with some sort of official government claim of responsibility and sincere apology? Or would that be just as insulting?
Broomstick wrote:I expect not, but Americans are loud and brash and obnoxious and we shout a lot in public.
This is so very true. After all, it is the squeaky wheel that gets the lube.
Broomstick wrote:My personal opinion is that some people genuinely feel that people still dealing with lingering prejudice and oppression should be compensated. Others want something for nothing. There are probably a lot of reasons people argue for (or against) reparations.
I'm all for reparations. I, however, don't understand how $$$ = truly "making it right". In my mind, making it right would be the acknowledgment of wrongdoing, official and public government apology (head of state), and political changes (laws) to ensure that it wasn't to be repeated in the future.
Correct me if I'm wrong; but with regards to the Holocaust and the American Institution of Slavery; it seems there have been reparations as I've indicated. Although I'm not sure about the apology part of it in both cases.
I don't think the Native Americans have gotten as far.
Broomstick wrote:I also think there is some resentment that certain categories (like Holocaust survivors) have received compensation but certain other groups have not (American descendants of black slaves).
That makes sense. A lot of the Jewish families during the Holocaust had their whole family fortunes stolen by the Nazis in order to fund their War Machine. Plus, in the context of what would, I think, equate to a "wrongful death suit". Compensation, monetary, seems to make sense.
Then again, it doesn't seem too far off for monetary compensation to come from a government that participated in the exploitation of free labor from captive imported people. I suppose it would make sense for those families with slave ancestors to receive fair wage compensation adjusted for inflation.
I could be talking out of my ass.