Joe Campbell on religion

[AdmiralKanos]

I'm tired of people who think that Joe Campbell's eloquent writings on the universality of mythology make him a very spiritual person and probably a Christian.

This sort of thing annoys me; why are so many Christians bound and determined to pretend that everybody they admire must be Christian too? Abraham Lincoln, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, so many men have been classified as Christians against their will and against the truth, and now we can add Joe Campbell to the list.

Here's a quote from Joe Campbell which should help put that to rest:

God is a metaphor for a mystery ... half the people in the world are religious people who think that their metaphors are facts. Those are what we call theists. The other half are people who know that the metaphors are not facts and so they're lies. Those are the atheists.

From "The Hero's Journey".

[Durandal]

Woohoo! Go Joseph Campbell.

[The Dark]

Off-topic, but if Einstein was anything he would have been a Jew. I'm not sure about Hawking, every time I decide he's either religious or atheist he comes out with a quote that supports the opposing view.

[Darth Wong]

Off-topic, but if Einstein was anything he would have been a Jew.

By race, yes. However, he stated quite clearly that after inspecting the Bible, he concluded that its stories could not possibly be true. Not surprising; we're talking about Einstein here.

I'm not sure about Hawking, every time I decide he's either religious or atheist he comes out with a quote that supports the opposing view.

No, he comes out with quotes that are grossly misrepresented because he uses the word "God" in a deist way (or perhaps Einstein's way, in which the universe itself is God; the jury is still out on that), and Christians have a nasty habit of interpreting this to mean their particular version of God. He refutes the notion of life after death and personal deities quite clearly in "A Brief History of Time".

[Jim Raynor]

Christians think "good=believing in the Christian God", therefore everyone they admire "must" be a Christian. God forbid an atheist or some other non-Christian should do anything admirable!

[The Apologist]

Who classifies them as Christians again?

[Darth Wong]

Who classifies them as Christians again?

Christian apologists. Duh.

PS. Hawking has publicly complained about Christians who take the word "God" out of context and misrepresent his beliefs (or lack thereof), just as Einstein did.

PPS. Fuck off. Until you step out from the safety of your sniping spots and unstated positions, you deserve the same respect we give to any troll, which is none.

[The Dark]

I'm not sure about Hawking, every time I decide he's either religious or atheist he comes out with a quote that supports the opposing view.

No, he comes out with quotes that are grossly misrepresented because he uses the word "God" in a deist way (or perhaps Einstein's way, in which the universe itself is God; the jury is still out on that), and Christians have a nasty habit of interpreting this to mean their particular version of God. He refutes the notion of life after death and personal deities quite clearly in "A Brief History of Time".

Ah, haven't found a copy of "Brief History" yet. I've only read "Universe in a Nutshell" and various interviews. I would agree that he seems deist or Einsteinian (for lack of a better term), but deist is still religious (not trying to insist on him being Christian, he's definitely not).

[The Apologist]

Which Christian apologists, Wong?

Or are you generalizing?

[The Apologist]

"Cowardly Heckler"??

LOL!

[VF5SS]

Which Christian apologists, Wong?

Or are you generalizing?

Do you really need him to specify on this? I mean come on. You're just nitpicking a quick statement. I swear this nitpicker is also a shitkicker. Ha.

[The Apologist]

Well, as far as I know, I have never heard anyone assert that any of those men were Christians (except maybe Abraham Lincoln, not sure though).

[AdmiralKanos]

Well, as far as I know, I have never heard anyone assert that any of those men were Christians (except maybe Abraham Lincoln, not sure though).

Right, so Einstein publicly complained about the widespread "lie" that he was Christian, and Stephen Hawking publicly complained in his second book that Christians leapt to conclusions about him, but they were just making it up in their heads. Sure. If you're not going to bother providing anything but your own ignorance by way of disproof, then you're living up to your rank title perfectly.

All you do is nitpick and demand evidence without providing any. You annoy people because you're a worthless, cowardly little shit who has been repeatedly challenged to stand up and state your beliefs, and who has repeatedly made feeble excuses like "I don't have time". Go pray to your ridiculous tribal deity. Ask him for a backbone.

[neoolong]

Christians think "good=believing in the Christian God", therefore everyone they admire "must" be a Christian. God forbid an atheist or some other non-Christian should do anything admirable!

There's the flip side also. That any evil person cannot have been Christian.

[AdmiralKanos]

There's the flip side also. That any evil person cannot have been Christian.

Hence the "Hitler was not Christian" lie.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

"Cowardly Heckler"??

LOL!

ROFL!!! Mmm Anti Camper practice... This'll be phun!

[Patrick Degan]

I'm not sure about Hawking, every time I decide he's either religious or atheist he comes out with a quote that supports the opposing view.

Not only is nobody certain on that question, it is impossible for anybody to be certain. Stephen Hawking's religious state is indeterminate and depends mainly upon the nature of the observation being made at the time.

[Master of Ossus]

I can honestly not believe that Christians claim Stephen Hawking and Einstein among their own. It is completely ridiculous to misrepresent someone like that. I guess that if they beleived that smart people were not necessarily Christians, it would cast doubt upon their religion through the appeal to authority fallacy.

And Apologist, if you have a point then make it, but don't play your crappy mind games here.

[The Apologist]

It appears there can be no difference, in your mind. Why bother?

And yes, my point was, more or less, that, on this topic at least, you folks need to support your statements - why am I getting tired of having to remind you to do so?

Even when (if) you substantiate your assertions, Kanos and Wong, I do not see how you will have in any way avoided a glaring generalization.

[Darth Wong]

It appears there can be no difference, in your mind. Why bother?

And yes, my point was, more or less, that, on this topic at least, you folks need to support your statements - why am I getting tired of having to remind you to do so?

Even when (if) you substantiate your assertions, Kanos and Wong, I do not see how you will have in any way avoided a glaring generalization.

And I don't see how you have in any way made a point. Even when you challenged and admittedly failed, you still claim victory and continue to nitpick. Pathetic.

[Spoonist]

->Wong

Actually, even though he is only doing it to rub you the wrong way, he does have a point.
There is a difference between certain stupid christians claiming that X & Y is/was christian
and
Christians (as in all christians) claims that X % Y is/was christian.

But then again, since he is only doing it in the capacity of a sniping troll (trying to get cheap shots without joining the battle) I'd say that you should just ignore him instead of replying to him.

[Darth Wong]

->Wong

Actually, even though he is only doing it to rub you the wrong way, he does have a point. There is a difference between certain stupid christians claiming that X & Y is/was christian and Christians (as in all christians) claims that X % Y is/was christian.

Precisely, which is why it's a strawman distortion of him to claim that I'm generalizing. I said it annoyed me that "so many Christians" were doing that. If he wants to read "all Christians" in order to generate an excuse for his cowardly nitpicking, I expect most readers to be intelligent enough to notice those pathetic tactics without me having to point them out.

[aerius]

And yes, my point was, more or less, that, on this topic at least, you folks need to support your statements - why am I getting tired of having to remind you to do so?

Fine then, how about supporting your own statements. Prove to us that Einstein and Hawkings are indeed christians. Find some facts to back that up. Until then shut the fuck up.

[ZAROVE]

I ge thrw feeling that ALL chrisians claim these things, from wongs post.

In reality, many ATHEISTS are gui;lty of makign peopel into there own image as well.davinci had problems with the authorities witht he church, thus is atheist, I have hear d this before, therefore all atheists are irraitonal and force themselves onto historical persons.

Einstean never publicaly was called, nor complained of, beign called a Christian.Rather, it was in the statement of his overall Theism, when in fact he was neither atheist notr theist, but instead, as spinoza, was a panteheist.

As to hawking and Lincoln, no evedence.

Also, nice little Hitler jab, yeah Christians say he wasnt christian, and thats yet another lie christians had, its clear he was christian, he even said once " National Socialism and the Church cannot coexist peacefully, best to let the church die a natural death after "- sounds like he is a faithful christian to me.

(Incedentlaly, Hitler was not a christian, dispite his PUBLIC speeches, he was secretly opposed tot he faith.all in history.But atheists love to site hitler and sy " see told you christians where evil." hardly logical.)

[Howedar]

Who's Joe Campbell besides a guy in my Calculus class?