Are biological spacecraft viable?

[Shinova]

Shadow battlecrabs, Species 8472, Vorlons...all of these are biological ships.


Question is, are biological spacecraft feasible?

[Darth Wong]

Shadow battlecrabs, Species 8472, Vorlons...all of these are biological ships.

Question is, are biological spacecraft feasible?

Carbon-based organic compounds have pitiful resistance to heat/cold variations, radiation, and corrosion. They're useless for starships.

[Exonerate]

GO MUTALISKS!!! Frankly, it might be possible, but I don't know... Having an entirely organic ship is stretching it.

[Sea Skimmer]

Shadow battlecrabs, Species 8472, Vorlons...all of these are biological ships.


Question is, are biological spacecraft feasible?

No, but then neither is 99.75% of everything else we see in sci fi

[Wicked Pilot]

I see no reason why someone would want to fight in/with a living spacecraft.

If I had to choose between an M-1 Abrams and an African elephant, I'd take the tank.

[Darth Wong]

If I had to choose between an M-1 Abrams and an African elephant, I'd take the tank.

Well put!

PS. Along the same lines, the Americans first switched from wood to iron for warships during the Civil War IIRC. There was a reason for that development, and I don't see any reason to go back.

[Exonerate]

I see no reason why someone would want to fight in/with a living spacecraft.

If I had to choose between an M-1 Abrams and an African elephant, I'd take the tank.

Thats a kinda unfair comparison... Its like having a Polar Bear vs a trash can. Species 8472 kicked Borg ass, and they were using mechanical ships...

[Darth Wong]

If I had to choose between an M-1 Abrams and an African elephant, I'd take the tank.

Thats a kinda unfair comparison... Its like having a Polar Bear vs a trash can. Species 8472 kicked Borg ass, and they were using mechanical ships...

Species 8472 is fictional. The point of this thread is to ask whether the superiority of bioships in sci-fi actually makes sense, and it doesn't.

As for tanks vs elephants, it is not unfair at all. An elephant is substantially larger than a tank, yet it would be massacred by one in many different ways.

[Sea Skimmer]

If I had to choose between an M-1 Abrams and an African elephant, I'd take the tank.

Well put!

PS. Along the same lines, the Americans first switched from wood to iron for warships during the Civil War IIRC. There was a reason for that development, and I don't see any reason to go back.

Some ships where all iron in the civil war, most remained wood hulled with limited if any armor on top. Though by 1861 the British already had an all iron construction ironclad afloat, HMS Warrior. She's still around today. By 1870 basically no one was building significant sized wooden vessels.

[Exonerate]

If I had to choose between an M-1 Abrams and an African elephant, I'd take the tank.

Thats a kinda unfair comparison... Its like having a Polar Bear vs a trash can. Species 8472 kicked Borg ass, and they were using mechanical ships...

Species 8472 is fictional. The point of this thread is to ask whether the superiority of bioships in sci-fi actually makes sense, and it doesn't.

As for tanks vs elephants, it is not unfair at all. An elephant is substantially larger than a tank, yet it would be massacred by one in many different ways.

Of course its ficitonal. I don't forsee organic ships anywhere near the future anyways. There would be a different between an elephant and a bio-ship... One would almost certainly have to be genetically engineered to withstand the rigors of space travel.

[Darth Wong]

One would almost certainly have to be genetically engineered to withstand the rigors of space travel.

I presume you're talking about the pilots rather than the bioships, since no amount of genetic engineering will change the fundamental weakness of organics compared to metallics.

[Shinova]

I posted this question on a different board and got this as one of the responses:

Well organic matter such as spider-silk is far superior to our material equivalent. The outer hull can be a shell operating on the same basis of a tortoise. Electronics are starting to lean towards biological equivalents, transistor's operate far better as I recall. Doesn't the latest quantum computer use biological methods too? So I do not find it hard to believe that organic ships are possible.

Comments?

[Darth Wong]

Well organic matter such as spider-silk is far superior to our material equivalent.

Bullshit. The last time I checked, its strength was middling compared to steel, and its rigidity was nonexistent. Ask him for the Young's Modulus of spider-silk.

The outer hull can be a shell operating on the same basis of a tortoise.

The idea of a shell is the only useful thing about a tortoise, and it's hardly a staggering idea. The MATERIAL of a tortoise's shell, on the other hand, is worthless. A steel shell of the same size would provide far more protection than an actual tortoise shell.

Electronics are starting to lean towards biological equivalents, transistor's operate far better as I recall.

Certain organic compounds are being researched for computing purposes, but they are not biological in any sense; they are not based on biological cells; just hydrocarbon compounds.

Doesn't the latest quantum computer use biological methods too?

No.

So I do not find it hard to believe that organic ships are possible.

Monstrous leap in logic. The outer shell of an organic ship would only be made of organic materials if the designer wants it to disintegrate rapidly under radiation and thermal bombardment.

[Sea Skimmer]

I posted this question on a different board and got this as one of the responses:

Well organic matter such as spider-silk is far superior to our material equivalent. The outer hull can be a shell operating on the same basis of a tortoise. Electronics are starting to lean towards biological equivalents, transistor's operate far better as I recall. Doesn't the latest quantum computer use biological methods too? So I do not find it hard to believe that organic ships are possible.

Comments?

Take a turtle shell, a human body and a sheet of steel and lay them on the ground. Explode a 1-kiloton nuclear device above. Which will come out in the best shape?

[data_link]

I posted this question on a different board and got this as one of the responses:

Well organic matter such as spider-silk is far superior to our material equivalent. The outer hull can be a shell operating on the same basis of a tortoise. Electronics are starting to lean towards biological equivalents, transistor's operate far better as I recall. Doesn't the latest quantum computer use biological methods too? So I do not find it hard to believe that organic ships are possible.

Comments?

Take a turtle shell, a human body and a sheet of steel and lay them on the ground. Explode a 1-kiloton nuclear device above. Which will come out in the best shape?

Depends. If the human is Darkstar, he will be protected by his impenetrable wall of ignorance.

[Shinova]

Well you could have it absorb radiation kinda like plants. A lot out there in space. But more than likely there would be a dedicated power source which the organic lifeform would have been made to feed on.

If you could design a lifeform from the ground up then you could easily make them 'immortal' (no such thing, but at the very least it'll outlive the crew). If we had an infinite power source like ZPE or hyperspace... then it could potentially be immortal. The technology to create something like this would yeild the ability no doubt. Like a custom virus which continually repairs cells fed from the power source. You wouldn't really have it grow as it'd be pretty pointless, much more like it'll be put together. Like how we use stem cell's to grow the shape we want them to.

Do such radiation-absorbing things exist?

Radiation can burn, and if that doesn't work, it messes up DNA. Does the above quote seem feasible?

[Darth Wong]

Well you could have it absorb radiation kinda like plants. A lot out there in space. But more than likely there would be a dedicated power source which the organic lifeform would have been made to feed on.

Shinova, the guy is obviously talking about ways to power the ship. He seems to think you can power a spacecraft on plant photosynthesis

If you could design a lifeform from the ground up then you could easily make them 'immortal' (no such thing, but at the very least it'll outlive the crew). If we had an infinite power source like ZPE or hyperspace... then it could potentially be immortal.

And now he's talking about "infinite power sources?" Why the fuck would he introduce this into a question about whether bioships actually make sense?

The technology to create something like this would yeild the ability no doubt. Like a custom virus which continually repairs cells fed from the power source. You wouldn't really have it grow as it'd be pretty pointless, much more like it'll be put together. Like how we use stem cell's to grow the shape we want them to.

Stem cells don't "grow the shape we want them to"; they simply aren't set to form a particular type of body cell yet, so they will readily become a blood cell, a bone marrow cell, etc. It's not as if they're bio-mimetic.

This guy obviously doesn't know anything, and is just grasping for terms and fragments of information that he's heard in passing.

Radiation can burn, and if that doesn't work, it messes up DNA. Does the above quote seem feasible?

No. Invite this idiot here to get his ass soundly kicked.

[data_link]

Do such radiation-absorbing things exist?

Radiation can burn, and if that doesn't work, it messes up DNA. Does the above quote seem feasible?

No.

While materials exist that gather energy from radiation (they're called solar cells), not only would radiation harm organic matter (reason #1 why organic ships suck), but it would be woefully insufficient to provide the power you need... unless all you're doing is providing life support, communications, and enough energy to burn chemical thrusters like the spacecraft of today. Presumably, you would want your future starship to be more functional than that.

The ZPE and hyperspace are not valid forms of energy production because they violate conservation of energy. There is no such thing as an unlimited power source.

As for biological matter being made immortal... possible, but not probable. You'd have a much better chance of prolonging life in a solid-state system than you do in an organic one.

[Exonerate]

One would almost certainly have to be genetically engineered to withstand the rigors of space travel.

I presume you're talking about the pilots rather than the bioships, since no amount of genetic engineering will change the fundamental weakness of organics compared to metallics.

Umm, couldn't an organic being somehow make use of metallic materials?

[AdmiralKanos]

Umm, couldn't an organic being somehow make use of metallic materials?

Yes, by constructing a protective shell out of them. In other words, a metal-hulled starship, in which the soft organic being will sit.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Carbon-based organic compounds have pitiful resistance to heat/cold variations, radiation, and corrosion. They're useless for starships.

What about organisms that are not carbon-based?

[HemlockGrey]

In other words, a metal-hulled starship, in which the soft organic being will sit.

Oddly enough, that sounds remarkably familiar...

[AdmiralKanos]

Carbon-based organic compounds have pitiful resistance to heat/cold variations, radiation, and corrosion. They're useless for starships.

What about organisms that are not carbon-based?

Any cellular organism requires a chemically reactive, semi-permeable membrane around its cells. By definition, this is shit for armour. And without it, all of the supposed advantages of a cellular organism disappear. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It is the very inert, dead nature of steel which makes it so good for what we need.

[Exonerate]

Carbon-based organic compounds have pitiful resistance to heat/cold variations, radiation, and corrosion. They're useless for starships.

What about organisms that are not carbon-based?

I don't remember any non-carbon based lifeforms on Earth...

[DPDarkPrimus]

Carbon-based organic compounds have pitiful resistance to heat/cold variations, radiation, and corrosion. They're useless for starships.

What about organisms that are not carbon-based?

I don't remember any non-carbon based lifeforms on Earth...

Of course. This is all hypothetical, remember?