Saw one of those Ad Council Commericals?

[Mike_6002]

You know the one where the kid is in the libary asking for certain books and the libarian said they don't have it anymore, and asks for his name, and then the kid tries to take off, then two goverement agents stop him and want to ask him a few "questions". Is this what going to happen in the future in our free world, censorship, goverment agents everywhere, and the end of freedom of opinion, free thoughts, and freedom of expression. I really worry about the people below the 38th Paralleal (US Border) with paranoid morons like Ashcroft taking away civil liberties one at a time. Is the free world doom to a big brother like state with no freedoms? And ideas are illegal. I really do worry.

[DPDarkPrimus]

On a note completely unrelated to that ad, but is instead about other ads by the Ad Council...

Anyone else agree with me that the "anti-marijuana" series of ads are the most stupid anti-drug ads ever created? Like the one with the two kids smoking pot in their dad's study, then one of them getting out a gun saying "Naw man, it's not loaded" and then you hear a gunshot go off. Besides the fact that even stoner teenagers would be smart enough not to smoke in their dad's study, that isn't even a fucking anti-marijuana ad! It's a GUN SAFETY AD! If the gun had been properly locked away unloaded, and with the ammuntion stored in a seperate area, also locked, as is reccomended, that would never have happened!

Of course, my absolute favorite of the bunch is the two guys smoking in the bathrooms during a concert, and getting busted by a cop. Yeah right, like they're going to be smoking in the bathrooms during a rock concert, when they can just smoke it on the floor.

[Durandal]

All stoners should be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They hurt no one, cause no trouble, don't pick fights, don't riot and there isn't a single recorded death that has been a direct result of marijuana, while there are millions that can be directly linked to alcohol, which is legal.

I mean, come on. It's obvious that our tax dollars should go toward having cops spend their time roughing up hippies and booking them. It's not like there are murderers and rapists on the streets or anything.

[TrailerParkJawa]

I hate the ads that portray drug users as supporting terrorism, despots, and dicators.

How about making pot legal and the crime surrounding it evaporates.

[Wicked Pilot]

Today, I gassed up my truck, and helped support terrorism.

[Durandal]

Today, I ate a hamburger with poppey seeds on it, and I helped support terrorism.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Perhaps if we legalize pot, we can put more actual criminals in jail.

Pot is actually safer than alcohol, since drunks are far more violent and unpredictable, while stoners just sit there, half-asleep. Speaking of alcohol, what's with the drinking age at 21? Nobody listens to it, and it can easily be bypassed by going to Mexico, where the drinking age is 18.

[TrailerParkJawa]

Today, I gassed up my truck, and helped support terrorism.

You evil criminal!!!!!

Oh, wait I sometimes drive my Honda all by myself to the Sierra Nevada for skiing. I support terrorism and environmental destruction.

[Peregrin Toker]

Which books were he asking for?? The Necronomicon??

[Spoonist]

I don't mind if you are advocating that certain stimulants should be legal, but you are clearly implying things that is not true instead of using factual arguments.

They hurt no one

It's true that stoners are less agressive than drunks. It's not true that stoners isn't aggressive nor is it true that stoners are less likely to use force in a hostile situation. What is true is that stoners trying to use force are less likely to succeed.
Please re-educate yourself by talking to your local police force. Stoners are common (but less common than drunks) in violent crimes.
Especially since it is illegal you are more likely to find yourself in a hostile situation with a police officer.

cause no trouble

Again I refer you to your local police. Even though pot is not as addictive as similar stimulants, it's still addictive. Robbing and theft to buy smoke is commonplace. There is a reason why abuse-therapy exists you know...

don't pick fights

Again I refer you to your local police. It's still true that stoners are less likely to pick fights than drunks, but that doesn't mean that they don't.

don't riot

??? Stoners are common in 'damage to property' claims. Again I refer you to your local police.

there isn't a single recorded death that has been a direct result of marijuana

This is just false. Suicide due to schizophrenia is more likely among stoners than among the rest of the population. 'Bad' joints have resulted in paranoia and delusions leading to physical injuries and deaths both upon themselves and others. Stoners have been and are present in armed robberies where it is common that the stoners have a feeling of overconfidence which leads to police officers having to use lethal force during arrests. It was also a common drug during the Vietnam conflict, leading to numeral deaths on both sides.
And also last but not least, even though the chance of overdosage is slim, they have been known to happen (we are talking about stupid people here).

there are millions that can be directly linked to alcohol

True.

It's obvious that our tax dollars should go toward having cops spend their time roughing up hippies and booking them.

It's strange that the polititians have such strange priorities for the police force. But hey they are politicians, it's not like they are paid to think.

It's not like there are murderers and rapists on the streets or anything.

Again your implication is false. Just because they are murderers and rapists doesn't mean that they don't use pot. Quite the contrary actually, for example both Bundy and Manson where known to use pot, studies on sociopaths have shown that they are more likely to use stimulants and the most common of them being pot.


Please use more factual arguments the next time:

From a site advocating making it legal:
Link

While the effects of cannabis on aggression in humans have not been adequately studied, there is evidence from animal studies that cannabis (THC) can reduce aggressive behaviour in response to challenge, rendering the subject more likely to avoid an aggressive incident or aggressive responses to a threat. However, for some individuals heavy use of cannabis may precipitate a psychotic reaction with aggressive outbursts. These incidents are relatively rare, and highlight the varied individual responses to the drug.

Link

The proportion of suicides increased sharply with the level of cannabis consumption.

Link

The evidence is more consistent with the hypotheses that cannabis use may precipitate psychosis among vulnerable individuals, increase the risk of relapse among those who have already developed the disorder, and may be more likely to lead to dependence in persons with schizophrenia.

Link

All the drugs considered--cannabis, cocaine, and alcohol --are significantly related to violent behavior; whether the perpetrator or the victim. The most noteworthy difference may be that in Ontario, drug use appears to be even more highly correlated with violence than in the United States.

With a nudge to Mike...



Link

Cannabis users exceeded controls in schizotypy scores and showed impaired neuropsychological parameters. Only within the cannabis group schizotypy scores correlated with neuropsychological parameters. Furthermore, cannabis users reported more often high-risk factors than controls.

[Durandal]

While that's interesting, I still don't see why marijuana should be made illegal if alcohol is legal. Alcohol-related arrests in violent crimes are far more frequent than weed-related ones. In my personal experience, I've never seen anyone get violent from being stoned. Maybe a little hyper, but certainly not a threat to anyone. That's just my experience, though.

[weemadando]

Today, I ate a hamburger with poppey seeds on it, and I helped support terrorism.

Actually you help pay my summer job wages...

[SeebianWurm]

It takes a hamburger with no poppy seeds to donate to terrorism.

[Spoonist]

While that's interesting, I still don't see why marijuana should be made illegal if alcohol is legal. Alcohol-related arrests in violent crimes are far more frequent than weed-related ones. In my personal experience, I've never seen anyone get violent from being stoned. Maybe a little hyper, but certainly not a threat to anyone. That's just my experience, though.

I think that the reason why alcohol is legal and weeds not, is because human culture have incorporated alcohol because it is so easy to produce.
The few times that different cultures have tried a ban on alcohol (like the us) it has resulted in failure.

Regarding the violence bit, go talk to a police officer and they will give you quite a different view.

[RedImperator]

If you concede that marijuana can have harmful side effects in some individuals, the question then becomes, are those side effects dangerous enough and widespread enough to warrant continuing prohibition? The Ad Council ads are right in one respect: drug money DOES finance horrible things. They don't mention that if marijuana came from, say, Archer Daniels Midland instead of Pedro's Cartel, that revenue stream to terrorists and gangsters would evaporate (it would also evaporate, obviously, if users would stop using it, but it's become clear that government coercion is completely ineffective in that regard, and hysterical propaganda--like Ad Council commercials--in the guise of "education" hasn't worked either).

[RedImperator]

Actually, there are worse commercials than those Ad Council ones. Truth.com commercials used to really irritate me, but they got moved down a peg on my shit list by a bunch of commericals from the Pennsylvania Department of Health featuring the "Compliance Alliance". In them, a bunch of 15-17 year olds would take hidden cameras into convenience stores and try to buy cigarettes. Supposedly, if they guy behind the counter sold them, they'd take the tape and go snitch to the health department. I'm all for keeping brats from smoking (it would give the cigarette crusaders one less thing to bother me about), but a bunch of brats dancing around on TV gloating about being police informants just makes me want to punch them in the face, and maybe stub a butt out in their assholes.

[HemlockGrey]

Oh, I hate those ads. I hate them with a fucking passion. A fucking, fucking passion.

The bullet-pops-out-of-the-handgun type passion.

[salm]

Again I refer you to your local police. It's still true that stoners are less likely to pick fights than drunks, but that doesn't mean that they don't.

people who have smoked pot without combining it with alcohol or something else are less likely to pick up fights than people who have taken nothing. i cant prove that at the moment but i´m soooo completely sure about it out of my own experience.

i mean, when you´re stoned you just dont feel like fighting. you dont even feel like moving. the preferred maximum of movemen when stoned is passing around the joint, or rolling the backgammon dice.

the reason that thc is often found in the blood of people who fight could be the following:
pot is illegal. fighting is illegal.
people who smoke pot/fight do somthing illegal.
to do so their inhibition level (right word?) is already lower.
because of that they might also tend to fight more than other people and they´re also more likely to smoke pot than other people.

now let´s take a person who smokes pot and fights.
i believe he´s less likely to be in a fight when he´s stoned.

[Spoonist]

->Salm
You quoted me, yet you are saying the same things that I did?

I repeat:
It's true that the average person is less aggressive when stoned, that does not mean that they are not aggressive.
For instance, stoned people are more aggressive than normal when it is combined with sleep deprevation, then the person can become irratic and hyper aggressive, when this happens persons have been known to attack people whom they never would have when sober, like their partners, children and relations.

It's like this folks, aggressive behaviour are instinctive when in hostile environments.
It is very easy to get aggressive in a crowded bar watching football for instance. It's not so easy when in the company of friends at home. Since alcohol is legal you are more likely to find yourself in a hostile environment with strangers while drunk then you would while stoned.

When you are under the influence of any stimulant you are more likely to react with instinct before you have time to think your actions through.
So stoned people are less likely to pick a fight with you because of the relaxing effect of the stimuli, but if you pick a fight with them they are more likely to respond with violence than if they where sober.

If you talk to a vietnam vet, they can tell you that bar fights where common even when you used pot instead of alcohol.

- - -

As I said before I don't mind people arguing that pot shouldn't be illegal. What I HATE is when people who do stupid things try to rationalize it.
It seems that people are rationalizing their stupidity when taking a joint but admitting it when getting drunk.
It's human to be stupid and do stupid things, one of those stupid things being taking stimuli (alcolhol & others), just don't try to lie to yourself and others by claiming that you are not.

[Durandal]

No one is claiming that smoking weed has no harmful side effects. We're saying that those side effects do not justify illegalizing it, given that alcohol's side effects are worse, comparitively speaking.

[Falkenhorst]

I hate those commercials that say "Tobbacco is whacko--IF YOU'RE A TEEN" Fuck that shit. What about the kids getting loads of 2nd hand smoke from their parents? Both my parents smoked when I was little, and I got Pneumonia SIX TIMES in elementary school. I finally made em quit on national smoke-out day though, HEH HEH HEH.

[salm]

->Salm
You quoted me, yet you are saying the same things that I did?

ok, it sounded to me like you were saying that stoned people are more likely to pick up fights than sober people.

I repeat:
It's true that the average person is less aggressive when stoned, that does not mean that they are not aggressive.
For instance, stoned people are more aggressive than normal when it is combined with sleep deprevation, then the person can become irratic and hyper aggressive, when this happens persons have been known to attack people whom they never would have when sober, like their partners, children and relations.

never heard of that. got any proof?

It's like this folks, aggressive behaviour are instinctive when in hostile environments.
It is very easy to get aggressive in a crowded bar watching football for instance. It's not so easy when in the company of friends at home. Since alcohol is legal you are more likely to find yourself in a hostile environment with strangers while drunk then you would while stoned.

When you are under the influence of any stimulant you are more likely to react with instinct before you have time to think your actions through.
So stoned people are less likely to pick a fight with you because of the relaxing effect of the stimuli, but if you pick a fight with them they are more likely to respond with violence than if they where sober.

i dont think so. when you´re drunk you think you can beat up lenox lewis, true. but thc has not only a relaxing effect but also an effect that makes you more defensive. maybe also caused by the fact that you know that you´re stoned and can´t do sufficent damage to your opponent anyway. you dont overestimate your abilities so you´d rather run away and befor that you´d try to keep the agressor calm because it´s too much stress to fight.

As I said before I don't mind people arguing that pot shouldn't be illegal. What I HATE is when people who do stupid things try to rationalize it.
It seems that people are rationalizing their stupidity when taking a joint but admitting it when getting drunk.
It's human to be stupid and do stupid things, one of those stupid things being taking stimuli (alcolhol & others), just don't try to lie to yourself and others by claiming that you are not.

depends on where you define the "beginning of stupid"
smoking a couple of joint once in a while isnt stupid. it might damage your lung slightly but it gives you whole lot of stuff. relaxing, fun, a good evening with friends.
same with alcohol. i wouldnt consider a beer or two stupid. it tastes good, it´s fun, good to pick up girls if you´re in the right location.
i wouldnt consider getting completely trashed once in a while stupid either. it´s a good way to vent, to get rid of stress.
what IS stupis is if you do it on a regular basis. if you get drunk every day or smoke 10 joints per day, yes, that is stupid.
but otherways the pros outweight the cons.