Useful URL's

Franc28 · Post by **Franc28** » 2002-07-04 09:04pm

What exactly is your problem ? This is only my first day here and you are already all over me. Pretensions of superiority aren't very effective unless you actually are superior.

As for the "extremely questionable exegesis" in SAB, I'd be interested if you had a web site about that. From what I've seen, it's pretty rigorous.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2002-07-04 09:08pm

Franc28 wrote:Pretensions of superiority aren't very effective unless you actually are superior.

ROTFLMAO!!!

Now that you've entertained me greatly, by managing to say the most breathtakingly stupid thing I've read in the past week, can you TRY to think for yourself and not just parrot Ayn Rand like a good little robot?

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2002-07-04 09:08pm

Look, let's just say that the SAB's author uses some extremely questionable exegesis and leave it at that.

Why should we just "leave it at that"? I would very much like to see some examples of these "questionable exegesis"

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2002-07-04 09:09pm

Cool it people, lest you enjoy Lord Wong smiting your puny mortal arses back to the TOS age.

Franc28 · Post by **Franc28** » 2002-07-04 09:10pm

Iceberg wrote:Now that you've entertained me greatly, by managing to say the most breathtakingly stupid thing I've read in the past week, can you TRY to think for yourself and not just parrot Ayn Rand like a good little robot?

Well, fine, since you insist in derailing this thread and talking about me instead... please tell me where I quoted Ayn Rand, with "book and verse". Otherwise, lay off.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2002-07-04 09:26pm

Icehawk:

[John] 6:70 Jesus chose "a devil" for an apostle. Oh well, everyone makes mistakes.

The "devil" Jesus is referring to in this passage is Judas Iscariot. This is just plain an example of failing to read in-context for the sake of nitpicking, since there HAD to be a betrayer (Judas) for the prophesy to be fulfilled. It would only be a "mistake" if Jesus had not chosen Judas in knowledge of the part which Judas had to play in the Passion story which is the entire point of the Gospel.

It's one thing to question. It's an entirely different thing to do so in loaded questions designed to set up an answer that you personally desire.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2002-07-04 09:37pm

John 5:46 Jesus claims that Moses wrote about him. Where? It's a shame he didn't give us chapter and verse.

More garbage exegesis. Chapter and verse are 4th-century constructs, and would have been foreign to the 1st-century people who wrote down the Gospels. John wrote his Gospel close to the end of the 1st century, and it would have been useless for him to write down a "chapter and verse" which wouldn't yet exist for three more centuries.

Franc28 · Post by **Franc28** » 2002-07-04 09:50pm

[John] 6:70 Jesus chose "a devil" for an apostle. Oh well, everyone makes mistakes.
The "devil" Jesus is referring to in this passage is Judas Iscariot. This is just plain an example of failing to read in-context for the sake of nitpicking, since there HAD to be a betrayer (Judas) for the prophesy to be fulfilled.

So he did choose a devil for an apostle. You have failed to point out the mistake, just tried to make it look better.
And God could have just changed the "prophecy" so he did not have to choose a devil (Judas). You are committing the common fallacy of limiting your god.

Iceberg wrote:John wrote his Gospel close to the end of the 1st century, and it would have been useless for him to write down a "chapter and verse" which wouldn't yet exist for three more centuries.

And here I thought the Bible was timeless.

The Onion had a good article that lampooned on that. The Bible was written by desert dwellers, and about all it's good for is tell us what desert dwellers thought was "cool". It's completely valueless scientifically or morally.

IDMR · Post by **IDMR** » 2002-07-04 09:53pm

Franc28 wrote:What exactly is your problem ? This is only my first day here and you are already all over me. Pretensions of superiority aren't very effective unless you actually are superior.

How deliciously... American.

Franc28 · Post by **Franc28** » 2002-07-04 09:54pm

How deliciously racist. Besides, I am Canadian. Geesh.

What the hell is the problem with you guys ?

IDMR · Post by **IDMR** » 2002-07-04 10:01pm

Franc28 wrote:How deliciously racist. Besides, I am Canadian. Geesh.

What the hell is the problem with you guys ?

My dear fellow, for that to be... racist, as it were, American has to be a race. Perhaps you should learn the noble art of reading as well, no?

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2002-07-04 10:04pm

The "devil" Jesus is referring to in this passage is Judas Iscariot. This is just plain an example of failing to read in-context for the sake of nitpicking, since there HAD to be a betrayer (Judas) for the prophesy to be fulfilled. It would only be a "mistake" if Jesus had not chosen Judas in knowledge of the part which Judas had to play in the Passion story which is the entire point of the Gospel.

Their did not HAVE to be anything. Jesus did not have to chose a "devel" for an apostle. Prophecy?, Passion story? bull. The choice was his and he payed with his life for that foolish choice.

More garbage exegesis. Chapter and verse are 4th-century constructs, and would have been foreign to the 1st-century people who wrote down the Gospels. John wrote his Gospel close to the end of the 1st century, and it would have been useless for him to write down a "chapter and verse" which wouldn't yet exist for three more centuries.

You're missing the entire point. The fact is that there is no proof, evidence or any literature anywhere, of moses writing about Jesus. It appears it is you who is doing the nitpicking now.

Franc28 · Post by **Franc28** » 2002-07-04 10:13pm

If it's not racist, then why use it as an insult ? Stop making excuses for yourself.

IDMR · Post by **IDMR** » 2002-07-04 10:15pm

Franc28 wrote:If it's not racist, then why use it as an insult ? Stop making excuses for yourself.

And who is insulting you? My, my, are we sensitive today!

Franc28 · Post by **Franc28** » 2002-07-04 10:17pm

Whatever. I think I've seen enough of this stupid message board. Bunch of morons.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2002-07-04 10:20pm

Icehawk:

1: That would rather be the point of the Resurrection, wouldn't it? Because how could Jesus be resurrected if he did not die first? And that death could come from any source - an errant pebble, a disease... or perhaps a treacherous disciple.

2: This argument depends on a sola Scriptura interpretation of the Bible - i.e. that the only books referred to in scripture are those which we now possess as Scripture. We know this to be false - Jesus and the Apostles refer to books which were known as late as the third and fourth century but have been lost since then.

IDMR · Post by **IDMR** » 2002-07-04 10:20pm

Franc28 wrote:Whatever. I think I've seen enough of this stupid message board. Bunch of morons.

Oh! How incisive! How insightful! Oh wait... I was thinking of Voltaire.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-07-04 10:25pm

OK guys, as much as I'm enjoying this little religious tet a tet, Why not just make a Religion topic and move it there? That way this Thread can continue as it was meant to be, a resource for useful URLs linking to sites that encourage thinking for yourself or debunking false statements (note I never once said anything about only Religion-bashing sites). Thanks.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2002-07-04 10:26pm

IDMR: Objectivists are fun, aren't they? At least 'til they break.

IDMR · Post by **IDMR** » 2002-07-04 10:27pm

Sorry, Rob. Should we collect all the URL in this thread and put it into another one? One which EVERYBODY must include a link in their posts?

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2002-07-04 10:29pm

Back to the proper topic of the thread:

http://www.dogchurch.org/ - the Virtual Church of the Blind Chihuahua
We can't be right about everything we believe. Thank God we don't have to be!

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-07-04 10:30pm

IDMR wrote:Sorry, Rob. Should we collect all the URL in this thread and put it into another one? One which EVERYBODY must include a link in their posts?

Sounds good to me, we should attach a discussion thread to it so any points about included URLs can be addressed there. Hang on and I'll get on it.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2002-07-04 10:54pm

1: That would rather be the point of the Resurrection, wouldn't it? Because how could Jesus be resurrected if he did not die first? And that death could come from any source - an errant pebble, a disease... or perhaps a treacherous disciple.

Resurrection? I don't recall their being any concrete evidence of Jesus actually being resurrected.

This argument depends on a sola Scriptura interpretation of the Bible - i.e. that the only books referred to in scripture are those which we now possess as Scripture. We know this to be false - Jesus and the Apostles refer to books which were known as late as the third and fourth century but have been lost since then.

Even if these lost scriptures were still around, how can you assume, without reading them, that that they would in anyway back up Jesus's claim that Moses wrote about him?

Sorry for continuing this here, but I don't see any new thread to continue this in elsewhere.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-07-04 11:03pm

Icehawk wrote: Sorry for continuing this here, but I don't see any new thread to continue this in elsewhere.

*Sigh* Wait one.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-07-04 11:08pm

Icehawk wrote: Sorry for continuing this here, but I don't see any new thread to continue this in elsewhere.

You can either continue it in the Useful URLs [Discussion] thread, or for preferance the Religions thread.