What would you go to war for?

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-09-19 12:54pm

What could you see yourself, if anything, ACTUALLY going to war for? Killing and dying for a cause. What cause would that be?

Let's say further that the army is hard-pressed to contain the hostilities alone for whatever reason. You realize that every soldier counts to guarantee victory, and if your side should lose, you lose some element of your freedom or are exiled/persecuted/killed for your differences. What would you fight for? Some people will not fight for their ideals (I ain't shooting nobody, for example, but I'd fight against, say the aliens from Independance Day). Others have select ideals they will go to war for. What are yours?

Suppose, to start, these conditions:

a) Fundamentalists have organized by the millions and are trying to eradicate your faith/sexual orientation/gender with force. The army is divided because of conflicts of commands from government leaders and commands from spiritual leaders. War erupts. You are known as not part of the fundamentalist group.

c) Foreign invaders (conquest-oriented). Another country - or intelligent species - have instigated a war of conquest against your country/planet in persuit of resources and territory, and to eliminate military rivals.

d) Political Revolutionists/Civil War. The country has become divided on political issues and civil war erupts between political or geographical groups within your country. Your side supports your ideal form of government, and your opponents have political ideals opposed to yours and intend to govern in a manner incredibly opposed to how you want to live.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-09-19 01:55pm

Nothing.

My life overrides any possible patriotism or will to fight in a war.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-09-19 02:02pm

Lagmonster wrote: a) Fundamentalists have organized by the millions and are trying to eradicate your faith/sexual orientation/gender with force. The army is divided because of conflicts of commands from government leaders and commands from spiritual leaders. War erupts. You are known as not part of the fundamentalist group.

Eh, just hunker down in my house in the mountains and let them all kill
each other off, this isn't my fucking war. And what a horrendously SLANTED
question there...........my personal opinion is, it aint worth fighting over
homos, God will just kill them off, he just takes a bit longer with that
pesky AIDS virii.

c) Foreign invaders (conquest-oriented). Another country - or intelligent species - have instigated a war of conquest against your country/planet in persuit of resources and territory, and to eliminate military rivals.

FOR THE FATHERLAND! TO THE FRONT! DESTROY THE INVADERS!

d) Political Revolutionists/Civil War. The country has become divided on political issues and civil war erupts between political or geographical groups within your country. Your side supports your ideal form of government, and your opponents have political ideals opposed to yours and intend to govern in a manner incredibly opposed to how you want to live.

Is it bwtween the South and the North again? If one side is for the Federal
government and the other is fighting for state's rights and to free us from
the oppressive arm of the Federal bureaucracy and it's numerous agencies
such as BATF, IRS, FBI, DEA, INS, DOE, BIA, DOA, etc etc, then I'm
on the frontline whacking Federals....

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-09-19 02:23pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Nothing.

My life overrides any possible patriotism or will to fight in a war.

Even if the outcome of the war determines your personal freedoms, or even your life? I agree that my sense of self-preservation is as strong as the next fellow's, but there's something to be said about a 'just cause'.

It's possible to stake an argument that there is no just cause for fighting, but I don't think that's universally true. It's merely necessary to introduce to you a situation where your life wouldn't be worth living - or wouldn't exist - if you *didn't* fight.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-19 03:57pm

Lagmonster wrote:a) Fundamentalists have organized by the millions and are trying to eradicate your faith/sexual orientation/gender with force. The army is divided because of conflicts of commands from government leaders and commands from spiritual leaders. War erupts. You are known as not part of the fundamentalist group.

I know what fundies would do to the world my children grow up in. Sign me up and get me a fucking gun.

c) Foreign invaders (conquest-oriented). Another country - or intelligent species - have instigated a war of conquest against your country/planet in persuit of resources and territory, and to eliminate military rivals.

What happened to option b?

Anyway, the answer to this question would depend on the nature of the invaders, wouldn't it? What if I actually prefer them to my own government? There have been many times in history when people have actually welcomed invading forces because they were so unhappy with their current government (one of the reasons the Western half of the Roman Empire fell so easily was the general level of discontent with the wealthy Eastern half).

d) Political Revolutionists/Civil War. The country has become divided on political issues and civil war erupts between political or geographical groups within your country. Your side supports your ideal form of government, and your opponents have political ideals opposed to yours and intend to govern in a manner incredibly opposed to how you want to live.

This is a bit vague, but let's suppose this other group is Nazism or something: I would definitely sign up to fight. BTW, isn't this basically a repetition of option a?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-19 04:06pm

MKSheppard wrote:Eh, just hunker down in my house in the mountains and let them all kill each other off, this isn't my fucking war. And what a horrendously SLANTED question there...........my personal opinion is, it aint worth fighting over homos, God will just kill them off, he just takes a bit longer with that pesky AIDS virii.

No thread is safe from your gay-bashing religious bigotry, is it Shep?

FOR THE FATHERLAND! TO THE FRONT! DESTROY THE INVADERS!

Interesting. You wouldn't fight for freedom of thought or equality or any other human rights apart from your self-absorbed right to carry guns, but you would fight for blind loyalty to the state. What a good little fascist you are.

Setesh · Post by **Setesh** » 2002-09-19 04:17pm

'War is its own reason, its a living thing, and cannot be denied'
-literally the writing on the wall found in Rome believed written between 10-40ad

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-09-19 04:29pm

For A and B, yes, but probably not for C. If one part of the country is to secede, the rest of it will kick it's ass. Unless, I was part of the seceding area. Then, I wouldn't fight for them, because I don't want my country to secede.

Tosho · Post by **Tosho** » 2002-09-19 04:40pm

Lagmonster wrote: a) Fundamentalists have organized by the millions and are trying to eradicate your faith/sexual orientation/gender with force. The army is divided because of conflicts of commands from government leaders and commands from spiritual leaders. War erupts. You are known as not part of the fundamentalist group.

There's no way in HELL that I'd let someone take away my religous freedom.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-09-19 05:06pm

I shall destroy Group A, using the dirceted war effort too then power drives of plantery domination.
Group C, if it's my big planet I'm putting the Imperial Smackdown(TM) on their ass good.
Group D, after I lose power for the bit I let the bastards cull themselves, them return too power

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-19 05:24pm

People go to war to protect or to further establish their ways of life.

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-09-19 06:59pm

Lagmonster wrote: a) Fundamentalists have organized by the millions and are trying to eradicate your faith/sexual orientation/gender with force. The army is divided because of conflicts of commands from government leaders and commands from spiritual leaders. War erupts. You are known as not part of the fundamentalist group.

-Sure I'll fight for that. I will fight to stabilise though. Not to eradicate the other group as vengeance.

c) Foreign invaders (conquest-oriented). Another country - or intelligent species - have instigated a war of conquest against your country/planet in persuit of resources and territory, and to eliminate military rivals.

-IIRC the standing rules for Australian Army Reserves in the event of an invasion is to report o barracks to collect weapons and gear and then go to ground and begin guerilla action. And yes I would fight to defend my country.

d) Political Revolutionists/Civil War. The country has become divided on political issues and civil war erupts between political or geographical groups within your country. Your side supports your ideal form of government, and your opponents have political ideals opposed to yours and intend to govern in a manner incredibly opposed to how you want to live.

-Too late. We in Australia are always fighting for something political. And wtih 70% of the population against an attack on Iraq WITH a UN sanction and more than 80% against it WITHOUT a UN sanction, and with Little John still wanting to play soldiers it isn't going to need much to push certain groups to the edge. If conscription was introduced, then well... It would be all on. Hell I'm more than willing to fight for ideology, but then, I'm a self-proclaimed communist and fall into the Anarchistic Communist Centre category.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-09-19 09:37pm

A: Hell yes, though probably not on the front line. I would get a degree in engineering and go into R&D. Otherwise I would be the sniper in the back taking out Phelps and Falwell

C: Depends on the government, If nazis or some other ultr conservative group I would do the same thing As I do in group A

D:The type of Govt I am most opposed to Is fascism/theocracy so that counts as fundie/nazis. So again, sniper.

Post by **Steve** » 2002-09-19 09:44pm

Lagmonster wrote: a) Fundamentalists have organized by the millions and are trying to eradicate your faith/sexual orientation/gender with force. The army is divided because of conflicts of commands from government leaders and commands from spiritual leaders. War erupts. You are known as not part of the fundamentalist group.

It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees.... or be killed and leave your children open to a world of horrors.

VIVA LA LIBERTÈ!!!!

c) Foreign invaders (conquest-oriented). Another country - or intelligent species - have instigated a war of conquest against your country/planet in persuit of resources and territory, and to eliminate military rivals.

The tree of liberty needs watering again...

d) Political Revolutionists/Civil War. The country has become divided on political issues and civil war erupts between political or geographical groups within your country. Your side supports your ideal form of government, and your opponents have political ideals opposed to yours and intend to govern in a manner incredibly opposed to how you want to live.

Same as the above two.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-09-19 09:46pm

Sorry about the numbering, Mike. Option B died horribly as I was typing the thing out and made deletions before I posted it.

Actually, when you asked if A was largely the same as the last one (should have been C), you are correct. However, you can draw interesting conclusions when you compare the same person's answers to all three points. As you pointed out, Shep immediately took a vague reference to politcal differences and announced he had a position worth killing or dying for, but couldn't find a place to fight in a war against those who might impose rule by religion on him.

In my own group, there was a lot more support for defending themselves from hostile religious types, which they view as universally *scary*, than they would from a mere change in government. But there were still those who, if the Communist revolution or some such ever came, would be shooting for one side or the other because when faced with the fact that they would live under a system that they despise, would rather fight to prevent its success than live under it.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-09-19 09:52pm

Can I pay someone else to fight for me?

If not, can I be guarenteed a desk job?

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-09-19 09:54pm

Actually, on reviewing most of the answers, I'm surprised that this many people actually could see themselves killing or dying for the causes. It's one thing to discuss which ideal you would uphold, another to actively pick up a gun and shoot someone (or be shot by someone) who is trying to destroy your cause, or prevent you from implementing it.

When considered seriously, I don't know that I would be able to *fight*. I'd probably be one of those still debating endlessly in Parliament when the Bad Guys (tm) stormed in and started shooting. Although, when faced with something like, say, a *global* imposition of fundamentalist, intollerant, and violent Christians, and was told that one bloody battle could turn the tide against them, I'm sure I'd sign up on the "What the hell, it's worth it" ticket.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-09-19 10:36pm

True. I would much ratherm argue from the senate floor. But if that didnt work...sniper

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-09-19 10:37pm

And on my uniform will be a rainbow, under the rainbow will be emblazoned(sp) in rainbow leters "six colors of death"

This will of course be the insignia of my all-gay sniper unit

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-09-19 10:38pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:True. I would much ratherm argue from the senate floor. But if that didnt work...sniper

Are you saying that you'd be a sniper?

Because snipers have one of the highest death rates in the military (at least as far as Korea and Vietnam).

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-19 10:38pm

Lagmonster wrote:Actually, on reviewing most of the answers, I'm surprised that this many people actually could see themselves killing or dying for the causes. It's one thing to discuss which ideal you would uphold, another to actively pick up a gun and shoot someone (or be shot by someone) who is trying to destroy your cause, or prevent you from implementing it.

It's not about some vague ideals. It's the thought that my children would be forced to live under fascist rule. I would risk it all to protect them from that.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-09-19 10:40pm

Well to be more exact...assasin but what the hell. If push came to shove I would be a sniper a few hundred meters from the front picking off High profile leaders.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-09-19 10:48pm

Fundies are sheep, take out the leader and rest, incapable of original thought will crumble like so many crackers when struck by a 15 lb sledge hammer.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-09-19 10:49pm

Darth Wong wrote: No thread is safe from your gay-bashing religious bigotry, is it Shep?

No

It's one of my more endearing traits, EHEHEHE

Interesting. You wouldn't fight for freedom of thought or equality or any other human rights apart from your self-absorbed right to carry guns, but you would fight for blind loyalty to the state. What a good little fascist you are.

Where did I ever say "blind loyalty to the government"?

Let me tell you a story, Mike.

It concerns my Great-Granddaddy, who on September 1st, 1939, ran
to the Recruiting Station in Montreal to sign up for overseas service
in the Canadian Army.

He was fucking PISSED that they rejected him because he was already
getting a pension from his WWI service, and because he was partially
deaf from the shellfire in the trenches of WWI.

He felt really bad about it because he didn't have any sons to carry
the line forward in battle, leading from the front with the LADIES FROM
HELL aka Bagpipers in the Royal Highland Regiments.

While I and the government may violently disagree on many many things,
there are some things that are beyond the fucking pale for me, and that's
a foreign power invading my country. For God and Country, man.

(actually, in my family's case, it's more of "For King and Country"
An anecestor of mine was in five freaking wars for the Crown
ranging from the Boer War, to Lord Kitchener's march from
Kabul to Kanadar in Afghanistan and ending with WWI service)

What the hell do you think my grandparents told me when I was
a kid, fairy tales about love and happiness? Hell no, it was about
our family's history...

Post by **Edi** » 2002-09-20 01:23am

Option A), same answer as Mike (even though I don't have kids). There are things that simply must be opposed, and this is one of them.

Foreign invaders? Well, the only ones that are a credible threat to my country right now would be the Russians. We already fought them off in WW2, and if needs be, again. Because of that, we have one of the freest societies in the world. Sign me up.

Civil war? Hard to see that happening here. No answer.

Edi

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

What would you go to war for?

What would you go to war for?

Re: What would you go to war for?

Re: What would you go to war for?

Re: What would you go to war for?

Re: What would you go to war for?

Re: What would you go to war for?

Re: What would you go to war for?

Re: What would you go to war for?