What's the differentiation of taxonomies and intersections, though? There'd be queen bee and white knight nerds shitting on misogynistic nerds in nerd culture.Simon_Jester wrote:Literal jocks, maybe not so much- but I bet you can find a fair number of feminists on social media who would make pretty good 'queen bees' of their high school social scenes. The basic point remains that bullying nerds is a popular pastime that can easily distract from dealing with a real problem. Though you do have a point that there are some categories of intensive Internet debate that basically only nerds would even participate in, such that if you see intensive Internet debate, you can reasonably suspect the role of Dark Side nerd-ery.
I think the terminology is skewered because there's old-ass "nerd culture" that we can say we're in, but nerd culture's expanded... that goes multiple ways, the toxic aspect of nerd culture as a boy's club treehouse expanded and absorb fratboy douchebros as things "normalized," on the other hand females and LGBTQA+s and people of color and activist circles also cross-pollinated with nerd circles, and so we're seeing manifestations of conflict between Nerd Identity and supposed ownership of it.
The toxic macho aspect of nerds we're seeing is so much the same as jock culture anyway, so that's another conundrum to boggle our brains.
NERDS HAS CHANGEDS
Nerd/game culture's become mainstream now though. New Atheists probably aren't mainstream, at least in meatspace... but it's cross-pollinating.Sure, but at that point you're reprising a class of argument we can see a lot when talking about minority politics. When a group that is marginalized elsewhere in society gets people attacking the nastiest sliver of the group, they are vulnerable. When a group with a lot of mainstream power gets that kind of attack, their numbers and status provide protection.
Liberal Christians in the US don't have to fear what can happen to their social status because of Richard Dawkins, let alone a bunch of Internet atheists. They just don't have that kind of social muscle. Liberal Muslims in the US DO have to worry about people singling out and aggressively going after "Muslim terrorists," because they are fewer in number, and therefore more vulnerable to being tarred with the same brush.
I get that what you're saying is akin to the dangers of say Muslims being generalized and targeted because of a handful of extremist clerics. That's what those redpill lunatic alt-right nerd/atheist personalities are, anyway, the secular equivalent of fundie clerics.
OK, I get that... it's the... belligerent general angle, even if it's not the exact content itself. Hurm... there's a difference between Mein Kampf that your analogy was going, versus a secularist or liberal Jewish person critiquing hardcore Orthodox loons and conservatives and Netenyahus in modern Israel. I think we're in modern Israel now. But sure, it's like akin to how say a minority making jokes about his/her own group CAN be misread and misused by others into something ugly - like Chapelle's comedy.I do get what you're saying about a lot of this criticism being nerd-on-nerd; it's this exact article that's concerning me because I view "go after the nerds" as a deeply troubling angle of attack for reasons that have little to do with the content of this exact article.
The comparison to ethnic groups (Jewish people) or religious groups may not be as applicable towards "nerd" though because "nerd" is more nebulous/less-distinct and more prone to cross-pollination - we see it evolve and grow and normalize in ways that's not the same as Jews/Muslims/Christians converting people or reproducing more.Extending this to social issues, a very large social institution has a lot of resistance to being berated and having a horrible little sliver of the original group that gets targeted and bombarded. The Catholic church has a constant stream of people throwing rocks at it over pedophile priests to the point where this is basically a meme throughout the developed world... but the Catholic Church isn't going away any time soon. It's so big that any one scandal has negligible effect, and no reasonable number of scandals can fully discredit the institution.
Meanwhile, if some exotic minority religion that a lot of people already think of as a cult developed a reputation like that, it would suffer very heavily in very short order.
In the US, mainstream Christianity has this kind of protection. No number of secretly gay homophobic preachers and corrupt televangelists will discredit the whole religion across the board.
Nerd groups, as a whole, do NOT have this kind of protection, or have a lot less of it. It's a lot easier to imagine a series of Gamergates convincing everyone to stop listening to male gamers, than it is to imagine a series of pedophile scandals convincing everyone to stop listening to bishops.
I mean, if we were talking about harshly critiquing sports culture or locker room culture, (notwithstanding whether in your analogy the sports scene counts as mice or whales) would you still be using this same analogy?
If we're talking about harshly critiquing fashion scenes, modelling scenes, the film scene, theatre scene, etc. would this apply?
If there was an incendiary screed against Hollywood protocols because of Weinstein and Kevin Spacey, etc.?
I think the taxonomy or whatever, phylogeny(?) of interests/hobbies like "nerd culture" or fashion or sports or certain arts is... not as cohesive or as concrete in the way that religious/ethnic/etc. identities are. I think they work differently. Especially with the profusion of "nerd culture." I don't think the whale analogy could even be likened to say the scorn on the emo scene or whatever bickering there is between various music scenes.
Perhaps in that sense this mass furor is precisely because "nerd culture" is now really starting to be owned by so many people so it's becoming this Culture War lightning rod... growing pains? Taking it a sign of growth and politicizing, akin to how everything else is politicizing due to interconnections... now that's something.TheFeniX wrote:I find these people are actually more of a problem because the morons have greater numbers and normalize this type of behavior. "Nerd Culture" (fucking dumbass phrase) didn't become popular because nerds suddenly became cool. It became popular because it was co-opted by the masses and turned into what it is: people buying up gaming T-shirts and thick-rimmed glasses at Hot Topic.
I'm over-simplifying here, but it only takes one asshole to cause a wreck on the highway, but it takes hundreds to thousands of rubber-neckers to turn it into a gridlocked shitpile.