Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

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cosmicalstorm
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Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by cosmicalstorm »

This is very good news for SENS and rejuvenation technology in general.

Lets hope this kind of information can work it's way into the mainstream and help the public realize that it's possible to rejuvenate humans if the necessary tech is developed.

Note that mice can be starved and have their life extended up towards 50 %, so I'm not expecting 25 % life increase for humans even with senescent cell clearance (amyloid deposits or glucosepane will still drag you to the grave). But even with that in mind this is very good and should be testable in humans real soon.
25% Median Life Extension in Mice via Senescent Cell Clearance, Unity Biotechnology Founded to Develop Therapies

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With today's news, it certainly seems that senescent cell clearance has come of age as an approach to treating aging and age-related conditions. Some of the leading folk in the cellular senescence research community today published the results from a very encouraging life span study, extending life in mice via a method of removing senescent cells. This is much the same approach employed in one of the first tests of senescent cell clearance, carried out in accelerated aging mice a few years ago, but in this case normal mice were used, leaving no room to doubt the relevance of the results. The researchers have founded a new company, Unity Biotechnology, to develop therapies for the clinic based on this technology. Clearance of senescent cells has been advocated as a part of the SENS vision for the medical control of aging for more than a decade now, and it is very encouraging to see the research and development community at last coming round to this view and making tangible progress.

Senescent cells have removed themselves from the cycle of replication in reaction to cell and tissue damage, or a local tissue environment that seems likely to result in cancer. Their numbers accumulate with age. Most are destroyed by the immune system or their own programmed cell death mechanisms, but enough linger for the long term for their growing presence to be one of the contributing causes of the aging process. These cells behave badly, secreting harmful signals that degrade tissue function, generate inflammation, and alter the behavior of surrounding cells as well. Near every common age-related condition is accelerated and made worse by the presence of large numbers of senescent cells. We would be better off without them, aging would be slowed by the regular removal of these errant cells, and the therapies to make that possible are on the near horizon.

The mouse lifespan study is the important news here, as it demonstrates meaningful extension of median life span through removal of senescent cells, the first such study carried out in normal mice for this SENS-style rejuvenation technology. This sort of very direct and easily understood result has a way of waking up far more of the public than the other very convincing evidence of past years. So it looks like Oisin Biotechnology, seed funded last year by the Methuselah Foundation and SENS Research Foundation to bring a senescent cell clearance therapy to market, now has earnest competition. Insofar as the competitive urge in business and biotechnology speeds progress and produces better results, let the games begin, I say.

Scientists Can Now Radically Expand the Lifespan of Mice - and Humans May Be Next


Quote:
Researchers have made this decade's biggest breakthrough in understanding the complex world of physical aging. The researchers found that systematically removing a category of living, stagnant cells (ones which can no longer reproduce) extends the lives of otherwise normal mice by 25 percent. Better yet, scouring these cells actually pushed back the process of aging, slowing the onset of various age-related illnesses like cataracts, heart and kidney deterioration, and even tumor formation. "It's not just that we're making these mice live longer; they're actually stay healthier longer too. That's important, because if you were going to equate this to people, well, you don't want to just extend the years of life that people are miserable or hospitalized."
By rewriting a tiny portion of the mouse genetic code, the team developed a genetic line of mice with cells that could, under the right circumstances, produce a powerful protein called caspase when they start secreting p16. Caspase acts essentially as a self-destruct button; when it's manufactured in a cell, that cell rapidly dies. So what exactly are these circumstances where the p16 secreting cells start to create caspase and self-destruct? Well, only in the presence of a specific medicine the scientists could give the mice. With their highly-specific genetic tweak, the scientists had created a drug-initiated killswitch for senescent cells. In today's paper, the team reported what happened when the researchers turned on that killswitch in middle-aged mice, effectively scrubbing clean the mice of senescent cells.


Naturally occurring p16Ink4a-positive cells shorten healthy lifespan


Quote:
Senescent cells accumulate in various tissues and organs over time, and have been speculated to have a role in ageing. To explore the physiological relevance and consequences of naturally occurring senescent cells, here we use a previously established transgene, INK-ATTAC, to induce apoptosis in p16Ink4a-expressing cells of wild-type mice by injection of AP20187 twice a week starting at one year of age. We show that AP20187 treatment extended median lifespan in both male and female mice of two distinct genetic backgrounds. The clearance of p16Ink4a-positive cells delayed tumorigenesis and attenuated age-related deterioration of several organs without apparent side effects, including kidney, heart and fat, where clearance preserved the functionality of glomeruli, cardio-protective KATP channels and adipocytes, respectively. Thus, p16Ink4a-positive cells that accumulate during adulthood negatively influence lifespan and promote age-dependent changes in several organs, and their therapeutic removal may be an attractive approach to extend healthy lifespan.
Unity Biotechnology Launches with a Focus on Preventing and Reversing Diseases of Aging


Quote:
Unity will initially focus on cellular senescence, a biological mechanism theorized to be a key driver of many age-related diseases, including osteoarthritis, glaucoma and atherosclerosis. "Imagine drugs that could prevent, maybe even cure, arthritis or heart disease or loss of eyesight. It's an incredible aspiration. If we can translate this biology into medicines, our children might grow up in significantly better health as they age. There will be many obstacles to overcome, but our team is committed and inspired to achieve our mission. This has been a long journey, and we're at the point now where we can start making medicines to achieve in humans what we've achieved in mice. I can't wait to see what happens as we move into the clinic."
To close this post, and once again, I think it well worth remembering that SENS rejuvenation biotechnology advocates and supporters have been calling for exactly this approach to treating aging for more than a decade. That call was made based on the evidence arising from many fields of medical research, and from a considered perspective of aging as a process of damage accumulation, one that can be most effectively treated by repair of that damage. The presence of senescent cells is a form of damage. SENS was not so long ago derided and considered out on the fringe for putting forward that position, but for several years now it has been very clear that the SENS viewpoint was right all along. I strongly encourage anyone who remains on the fence about the validity of the SENS proposals for the treatment of aging to reexamine his or her position on the science.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Esquire »

Hold your horses. This is scientifically very fascinating, and may provide a conceptual avenue for geriatrics breakthroughs in a hundred years or so, the authors were quite right not to suggest a timeline, or even a broad approach to human adaptation of their discoveries. The reason is in the following quote:

"Importantly, AP treatment of mice lacking the ATTAC transgene did not improve lifespan." (Baker et al, 2015) Or, there's only a useful effect in the genetically-modified treatment group mice, it doesn't work in normal ones. Since genetic modification will never be approved for human clinical trials, due to legal and organisational restrictions on potentially-harmful research as well as the prevailing ethical climate, this is a practical dead end until we have a near-perfect understanding of mouse and human genetics. And that's even assuming that a similar transgene trigger mechanism would work in humans without negative effects, or at all. We're not going to be living an extra 30 years by next month, or anything.

That the researchers have started a biotechnology company is, again, promising - they're clearly brilliant people and having them continuing to work on the problem can only help. But the coverage suggesting that the end of aging is just around the corner is at best hopelessly naive, and at worst flat-out dishonest.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by cosmicalstorm »

Obviously the complete end of human aging is far away, the first set of rejuvenation treatments (clearance of glucosepane, transthyretin amyloids, neural amyloids, fibrils, scar tissue, senescent cells, porting Mito DNA, repair of nuclear DNA, extracellular crosslinks, fat cell ablation, deletion of telomerase and periodic stem cell replacements, reprogramming whatever pro aging genetics that exist) is at least 25 years away.
Once those treatments are in place I also expect many other aging damages will become evident (stuff that becomes a problem if you age beyond 125 years which we obviously don't know about now).

In FDA/EU land I'm sure it will be decades before the necessary approvals. But I don't think the Chinese/Japanese will that hesitant considering the size of their problems, also home science should allow a considerable increase in the pace of testing. Computer modeling should also become much better in the near future.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Esquire »

cosmicalstorm wrote:home science should allow a considerable increase in the pace of testing.
You are welcome to provide evidence that 'home science' exists, has ever yielded useful results in modern times, and would have the resources and legal approvals required to even do these kinds of studies in the first place. This will be massively more difficult than, for example, pharmaceutical research, which is conducted by only a handful of multinational companies and governments worldwide.

Anyway, we're still talking about massive tampering with the human genome. There is literally no way that will ever get even basic research approval without a truly unprecedented shift in popular opinion, and if such a shift occurs in only 25 years I'll eat my hat. Possibly in a century there might be very limited clinical trials conducted. Possibly. If it even works in humans, or in mice without that specific transgene.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

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cosmicalstorm wrote:In FDA/EU land I'm sure it will be decades before the necessary approvals. But I don't think the Chinese/Japanese will that hesitant considering the size of their problems, also home science should allow a considerable increase in the pace of testing.
How do you do "home science" on genetic modification of human DNA?

Also, if the Chinese and Japanese rush this subject, they will succeed mainly in killing thousands of people and learning nothing. What I'm not sure you grasp is that introducing all sorts of random chemicals and structural changes into human biology is in fact actively dangerous. It's not this bizarre reverse-Pascal's-wager where if you win, you gain immortality, and if you lose, you sacrifice nothing.

If you get one of these treatments right, you might gain a little life expectancy if you were 'scheduled' to die of something the treatment actually prevents.

And if one of these treatments turns out to have a side effect you couldn't predict, odds are that the treatment itself kills you from cancer or otherwise fatally damages your body, long before any marginal advantage you gain kicks into effect.
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For example... I don't know. Maybe those "home science" "life-extending" buckyballs you're taking have the effect of enhancing gullibility, or reducing your ability to weigh the potential negative consequences of your actions? Impairing judgment in general, perhaps.

Maybe twenty years from now your brain will look like a piece of sponge because you've been eating buckyballs. Or maybe, less dramatically, you might get into a car accident and die because of bad judgment brought about by buckyball consumption impairing your brain. Or something else might go wrong. You do not and cannot know, because no one has eaten buckyballs for that kind of timespan.

So yes, you have to be extremely careful with medical science. The list of things that will kill you is much longer than the list that will cure you, and a randomly selected 'treatment' is more likely to be on the first list than the second.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Terralthra »

Seriously, this is cosmicalstorm posting yet another overreach of antisenescence medical science. Why does anyone respond to these any more? We know how this will go.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Simon_Jester »

At this point I'm honestly curious about how he thinks science even works because it's increasingly clear his mental picture of it is comically wrong.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Esquire »

Cosmically wrong?

More seriously, I think this kind of nonsense is becoming almost trendy - "Oh, I don't need experts, I read such and such and it convinced me, so it must be true!"
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Simon_Jester »

It's always been trendy. The only difference is the delivery vehicle; pseudoscience is spreading by the Internet rather than by other delivery vehicles.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Esquire »

Fair enough. I don't tend to subscribe to the non-internet sources, and I don't pay a lot of attention to the wider internet, so I guess I've missed most of the silliness. Not that I'm complaining, mind. :D
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

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This forum is so shock level 0.

Anyway I'm not out in lala-land when I say that I think there will be a rejuvenation-revolution of a kind sometime the next 1-2 decades, once the current pro-death cult is overturned. Once the flood gets going we'll have serious rejuvenation a lot sooner than many expect (serious treatments available during the next 20 year period as opposed to treatments available from 2100 and onward as some seem to think).

For an example on the current status of "home science" look at the bet Liz Parrish has made, she may end up dying in horrible agony or something, but it's an interesting bet
https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/com ... oviva_the/

Once genetic edits, large DNA testing, chemical printers and so and so becomes cheap enough I have a hard time seeing that not being used for weird home science.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

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You can't genetically engineer yourself, dipshit. You can only insert genes into an entire multicellular organism at conception. Near the top of that massive AMA (pro-tip, if you want us to read some specific thing, maybe link straight to what you want us to read instead of a gigantic AMA), she says that the only ethical choice for someone to experiment on would be herself. Thus, the technique you point out here, wherein a gene is spliced into an organism and then a particular treatment is administered and has an antigeriatric effect, can not be self-administered. It can only be done to your children, which in pretty much any sane country in the past 50 years is incredibly illegal.

Anyway, the main problem here has nothing to do with the forum not being surprised or amazed or happy about scientific advancement. Check out the thread on LIGO detecting grativational waves, for example. We fuckin' love science here, man. What we don't love is your hyperventilation about every tentative study that comes down the turnpike. This one, the one on copper-ATSM, the one about fasting, the one where you're dosing yourself with fullerenes, etc. It's gotten to the point where between your chicken-little routine in the European refugee crisis thread and your posts here, I preemptively roll my eyes whenever I see a new post by you. Why? Because it's a coinflip as to whether it'll be cryptoracist fearmongering or an antigeriatric post with a lack of any skepticism at all or appreciation of the complexity of rejuvenation research.

Mods: I appreciate the restrictions regarding vendettas, which is why I made sure to rebut the content of this specific post before moving on to the problem with cosmicalstorm's pattern of posting in general.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

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cosmicalstorm wrote:This forum is so shock level 0.
Which means... what, exactly?
Anyway I'm not out in lala-land when I say that I think there will be a rejuvenation-revolution of a kind sometime the next 1-2 decades, once the current pro-death cult is overturned.
Yes, you absolutely are. The original article in this thread cited a study that, while impressive, worked in a small subset of mice. It is hilariously illegal to test new medical treatments on humans without extensive trials; there is a moratorium on genetic modification research in the U.S and in many other countries. This is a massively complex field, almost unimaginably so, which we've really only been studying for a few decades. We only know what... about 15%, I think, of the human genome even does. If by 'pro-death cult,' you mean 'let's not accidentally invent a new genetic wasting disease because it turns out we didn't know what we were doing,' sign me up for a membership.
Once the flood gets going we'll have serious rejuvenation a lot sooner than many expect (serious treatments available during the next 20 year period as opposed to treatments available from 2100 and onward as some seem to think).
Why do you think this? Please provide specific evidence; you're the one making the positive claim here.
For an example on the current status of "home science" look at the bet Liz Parrish has made, she may end up dying in horrible agony or something, but it's an interesting bet
https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/com ... oviva_the/
No, it's somebody who doesn't want to die putting her faith in something with no real evidence supporting it, with possibly awful consequences. There have been millions of people throughout history who've done the same, and she certainly won't be the last.
Once genetic edits, large DNA testing, chemical printers and so and so becomes cheap enough I have a hard time seeing that not being used for weird home science.
None of which are going to be cheap for a while*, let alone available. Do you really think governments are going to allow anybody to print of a new strain of anthrax because of Freedom (TM)? Plus, as discussed above, 'genetic edits' aren't a 'after these are ready, everything will just work out' kind of thing, they're a major practical, scientific, legal, and ethical barrier that will take a lot more effort and evidence than you've shown here to overcome. And, of course, probably 95% of the people who try "weird home science" with genetics and synthetic chemicals will just end up melting their insides... which is why we usually let the specialists do the research. Below at best the Master's-degree tier, you can't crowdsource science.

*Well, fine, maybe the DNA testing. But that doesn't really work the way you seem to think it does; see my signature.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Starglider »

cosmicalstorm wrote:This forum is so shock level 0.
No, no, don't even go there, you don't get to spout nonsense and then cover yourself with vauge 'oh I am so misunderstood'. Ongoing validity or not of the SL concept aside, SDN has had plenty of detailed conversations about transhumanism to an SL2 level and most of the sci-fi material discussed is SL1 settings. Which is more than sufficient for any topic you have brought up.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

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cosmicalstorm wrote:For an example on the current status of "home science" look at the bet Liz Parrish has made, she may end up dying in horrible agony or something, but it's an interesting bet
https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/com ... oviva_the/
You didn't answer my question.

How, specifically, do you do "home science" on human DNA?
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

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cosmicalstorm wrote: Anyway I'm not out in lala-land when I say that I think there will be a rejuvenation-revolution of a kind sometime the next 1-2 decades, once the current pro-death cult is overturned.
What the fuck is the pro-death cult? Are you honestly saying that the only limitation to medical science is a pervasive belief that death is good? Are you really this divorced from reality, or are you just trying to make yourself sound smart without providing any substance?
cosmicalstorm wrote: For an example on the current status of "home science" look at the bet Liz Parrish has made, she may end up dying in horrible agony or something, but it's an interesting bet
https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/com ... oviva_the/
What? What the fuck does anything about that AMA have to do with "home science"? Did you even read the damned thing, or are you too stupid to understand it? Liz Parrish is the CEO of a multinational research corporation. And she volunteered to be the first subject of an experimental gene therapy, which hasn't yet received FDA approval. But the method they used (specifically, adeno-associated virus therapy aimed at the telomerase reverse transcriptase protein) isn't remotely comparable to "home science". It is a technique that costs tens of thousands of dollars, at least (Parrish even says in that AMA it isn't currently cost effective; the only reason she was able to do it is because she is CEO of the fucking company). And both the method and target have been extensively researched in the medical community since the late 1990s. What she did is only "home science" in that she volunteered as the subject, but it is still ultimately the product of millions of dollars and decades of medical research, and is under the auspices of a massive medical complex. (EDIT: And, hell, it is telling that one member of her company's board RESIGNED because he thought the move was premature and idiotic. But you'll probably just dismiss him as an insidious spy from the pro-death conspiracy or whatever the fuck it is you think.)

Do you really think this is the same as you eating fullerene because of one article you read somewhere, and probably misunderstood anyway?
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Korto »

I'm actually going to say something against the general feelings of the board, but it's the way I feel.
I feel saddened whenever I read these stories about possible breakthroughs enabling us to live longer, to extend our life-spans. I dread the idea of us discovering how to live for centuries, or perhaps indefinitely (which is a long way down the track, but is still a goal).
Why? Because I like children.
Now, that's not to infer others here don't, but it seems obvious to me that the longer we live, the less children we can have in the world. The less proportionally, but also the less in absolute terms.
I want there to be more children, not less.
I could accept an average life-span of sixty or seventy, if it meant more kids in the streets.
:wink: Maybe I'm a member of this "Pro-Death Cult"


PS:
This forum is so shock level 0
What the fuck's that meant to mean? No, seriously, someone spill--Starglider, you seem to know what the fuck he's talking about?
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by His Divine Shadow »

That doesn't seem logical to me. Less children is better for the children that will be born. A lot of the injustices of today are only possible or growing worse because there are too many children. Better we have less children but treat them better.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Purple »

Well if we are going to be open about things that go against this board I have to say that personally I get saddened by every time I read about such a breakthrough only to see in no uncertain terms that its benefits will in fact NOT be ready in time to save me. The only thing sadder than knowing you can't ever life forever is knowing that someone else will, and that this someone else might well be born in your lifetime so you get to see him do it as you wither away and die.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by salm »

Korto wrote:that's not to infer others here don't, but it seems obvious to me that the longer we live, the less children we can have in the world.
The world is a curcial word here. If you can be optimistic about significantly longer life spans you can be optimistic about space colonizsation.
If both can be achieved long lives + children won´t be problematic.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Purple wrote:Well if we are going to be open about things that go against this board I have to say that personally I get saddened by every time I read about such a breakthrough only to see in no uncertain terms that its benefits will in fact NOT be ready in time to save me. The only thing sadder than knowing you can't ever life forever is knowing that someone else will, and that this someone else might well be born in your lifetime so you get to see him do it as you wither away and die.
I'm noticing a pattern in your posts, I am wondering if you have some kind of borderline sociopathy / or autism spectra or whatever that makes it problematic for you to empathise with others fully.


I'm quite ambivalent towards my eventual dying (or not) nowadays. Perhaps having children does that. I wish for them to reap benefits of future medical technology though.

What bothers me most and is a thought that intrudes into my mind at random times to get me down, is that there are more disabled children born into the world since last time I thought of it, many in horrific ways that will be shunned and rejected when childhood should be a happy problem free time. That's the biggest injustice of all. That's way more important a thing than us living longer lives.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Simon_Jester »

Korto wrote:Now, that's not to infer others here don't, but it seems obvious to me that the longer we live, the less children we can have in the world. The less proportionally, but also the less in absolute terms.
I want there to be more children, not less.
I could accept an average life-span of sixty or seventy, if it meant more kids in the streets.
:wink: Maybe I'm a member of this "Pro-Death Cult"
This would be more appealing to me if I thought we had any idea how to raise children effectively in a modern society where everyone is also pursuing self-actualization through career.

Up to about 40-50 years ago in the developed world, nearly all the women stayed home and raised the children. Right now, we are suffering severely from undersocialized children across a wide spectrum of incomes and social classes.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Esquire »

That's a symptom of an underlying problem, I think; my siblings and I either played with each other, the neighborhood kids, or our parents' friends' children when the adults went out. Now I see a lot of single-child households, everyone's too terrified of van-drivers offering candy to let their kids out for five minutes, and there's this weird idea that all activities must include everyone, so adults with children can't do anything designed for people over fifteen or so.
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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by LaCroix »

I personally think it's a bit... questionable... to say that you want people to die because you like seeing kids. I understand your basic sentiment, but feeling it is better for people to die so we keep making new ones (who will only be "kids" for aa quarter of their lifespan) is pretty harsh.
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: Life extension in mice via senescent cell clearance

Post by Simon_Jester »

I think the idea is that a society where children are a more prominent and ubiquitous part of the culture is a healthier society.

However, Esquire makes a good point that we may be seeing less of children simply because (especially in middle-class society) the children aren't being allowed out in public except when necessary.

[Of course, I am a high school teacher, so I am the worst possible judge of how often one sees children around in public]
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