Copper-ATSM halts ALS in animals

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cosmicalstorm
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Copper-ATSM halts ALS in animals

Post by cosmicalstorm »

It's not every day that a known and human trialed substance stops a disease like ALS.
This should be easy to test in humans and those who are dying of ALS now might try it at home.


News and Research Communications

New therapy halts progression of Lou Gehrig’s disease in mice

01/28/2016

CORVALLIS, Ore. – Researchers at Oregon State University announced today that they have essentially stopped the progression of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), or Lou Gehrig’s disease, for nearly two years in one type of mouse model used to study the disease – allowing the mice to approach their normal lifespan.

The findings, scientists indicate, are some of the most compelling ever produced in the search for a therapy for ALS, a debilitating and fatal disease, and were just published in Neurobiology of Disease.

“We are shocked at how well this treatment can stop the progression of ALS,” said Joseph Beckman, lead author on this study, a distinguished professor of biochemistry and biophysics in the College of Science at Oregon State University, and principal investigator and holder of the Burgess and Elizabeth Jamieson Chair in OSU’s Linus Pauling Institute.

In decades of work, no treatment has been discovered for ALS that can do anything but prolong human survival less than a month. The mouse model used in this study is one that scientists believe may more closely resemble the human reaction to this treatment, which consists of a compound called copper-ATSM.

It’s not yet known if humans will have the same response, but researchers are moving as quickly as possible toward human clinical trials, testing first for safety and then efficacy of the new approach.

ALS was identified as a progressive and fatal neurodegenerative disease in the late 1800s, and gained international recognition in 1939 when it was diagnosed in American baseball legend Lou Gehrig. It’s known to be caused by the death and deterioration of motor neurons in the spinal cord, which in turn has been linked to mutations in copper, zinc superoxide dismutase.

Copper-ATSM is a known compound that helps deliver copper specifically to cells with damaged mitochondria, and reaches the spinal cord where it’s needed to treat ALS. This compound has low toxicity, easily penetrates the blood-brain barrier, is already used in human medicine at much lower doses for some purposes, and is well tolerated in laboratory animals at far higher levels. Any copper not needed after use of copper-ATSM is quickly flushed out of the body.

Experts caution, however, that this approach is not as simple as taking a nutritional supplement of copper, which can be toxic at even moderate doses. Such supplements would be of no value to people with ALS, they said.

The new findings were reported by scientists from OSU; the University of Melbourne in Australia; University of Texas Southwestern; University of Central Florida; and the Pasteur Institute of Montevideo in Uruguay. The study is available as open access in Neurobiology of Disease.

Using the new treatment, researchers were able to stop the progression of ALS in one type of transgenic mouse model, which ordinarily would die within two weeks without treatment. Some of these mice have survived for more than 650 days, 500 days longer than any previous research has been able to achieve.

In some experiments, the treatment was begun, and then withheld. In this circumstance the mice began to show ALS symptoms within two months after treatment was stopped, and would die within another month. But if treatment was resumed, the mice gained weight, progression of the disease once again was stopped, and the mice lived another 6-12 months.

In 2012, Beckman was recognized as the leading medical researcher in Oregon, with the Discovery Award from the Medical Research Foundation of Oregon. He is also director of OSU’s Environmental Health Sciences Center, funded by the National Institutes of Health to support research on the role of the environment in causing disease.

“We have a solid understanding of why the treatment works in the mice, and we predict it should work in both familial and possibly sporadic human patients,” Beckman said. “But we won’t know until we try.”

Familial ALS patients are those with more of a family history of the disease, while sporadic patients reflect the larger general population.

“We want people to understand that we are moving to human trials as quickly as we can,” Beckman said. “In humans who develop ALS, the average time from onset to death is only three to four years.”

The advances are based on substantial scientific progress in understanding the disease processes of ALS and basic research in biochemistry. The transgenic mice used in these studies have been engineered to carry the human gene for “copper chaperone for superoxide dismutase,” or CCS gene. CCS inserts copper into superoxide dismustase, or SOD, and transgenic mice carrying these human genes die rapidly without treatment.

After years of research, scientists have developed an approach to treating ALS that’s based on bringing copper into specific cells in the spinal cord and mitochondria weakened by copper deficiency. Copper is a metal that helps to stabilize SOD, an antioxidant protein whose proper function is essential to life. But when it lacks its metal co-factors, SOD can “unfold” and become toxic, leading to the death of motor neurons.

There’s some evidence that this approach, which works in part by improving mitochondrial function, may also have value in Parkinson’s disease and other conditions, researchers said. Research is progressing on those topics as well. 

The treatment is unlikely to allow significant recovery from neuronal loss already caused by ALS, the scientists said, but could slow further disease progression when started after diagnosis. It could also potentially treat carriers of SOD mutant genes that cause ALS.

This work has been supported by the Department of Defense Congressionally Directed Medical Research Program, the U.S. National Institutes of Health, the Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis Association, the Australian National Health and Medical Research Association, and gifts by Michael Camillo and Burgess and Elizabeth Jamieson to the Linus Pauling Institute.

http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/ ... sease-mice
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Re: Copper-ATSM halts ALS in animals

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cosmicalstorm wrote:It's not every day that a known and human trialed substance stops a disease like ALS.
This should be easy to test in humans and those who are dying of ALS now might try it at home.
How the FUCK are current ALS patients supposed to "try this at home"? As the article plainly states, it's not just any old copper supplement, it's a very specific compound and despite reassures about unneeded copper being flushed from the body there are probably some fussy dosage requirements and it's almost certainly toxic above some level of dosage.

How about we leave the experimenting to people who actually have some clue what they're doing?
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Re: Copper-ATSM halts ALS in animals

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You only skimmed it so I'll post the relevant quote again for you:
Copper-ATSM is a known compound that helps deliver copper specifically to cells with damaged mitochondria, and reaches the spinal cord where it’s needed to treat ALS. This compound has low toxicity, easily penetrates the blood-brain barrier, is already used in human medicine at much lower doses for some purposes, and is well tolerated in laboratory animals at far higher levels. Any copper not needed after use of copper-ATSM is quickly flushed out of the body.



Sounds better than 'certain death'?

The ones who are soon dead could do it under medical supervision.
It clearly states that this compound has already been used in humans.
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Re: Copper-ATSM halts ALS in animals

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cosmicalstorm wrote:You only skimmed it so I'll post the relevant quote again for you:
No, you fuckwad, I read the whole goddamned thing. You ASSUMED I skimmed it because I disagreed with you.
cosmicalstorm wrote:
Copper-ATSM is a known compound that helps deliver copper specifically to cells with damaged mitochondria, and reaches the spinal cord where it’s needed to treat ALS. This compound has low toxicity, easily penetrates the blood-brain barrier, is already used in human medicine at much lower doses for some purposes, and is well tolerated in laboratory animals at far higher levels. Any copper not needed after use of copper-ATSM is quickly flushed out of the body.

Sounds better than 'certain death'?

The ones who are soon dead could do it under medical supervision.
It clearly states that this compound has already been used in humans.

OK, what's the common name of this substance?

Where can you purchase it over the counter?

No ethical medic will do "medical supervision" of amateur, home medical experimentation of the sort you're proposing. After the atrocities committed upon unwitting victims in the 19th and 20th Century medical ethics in regards to experimenting have tightened up considerably, especially for those who are dying and may or may not be able to truly consent to the "treatment".
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Re: Copper-ATSM halts ALS in animals

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

Jesus, comicalstorm, read your own article. Right here:
It’s not yet known if humans will have the same response, but researchers are moving as quickly as possible toward human clinical trials, testing first for safety and then efficacy of the new approach.
It's going to be years before researchers can even verify that this compound is a successful treatment at all, nevermind getting to the point that the compound is readily available for ALS patients. There are going to be studies in different labs on different mice to ensure that the results of this one are replicable, and this will be followed by a series of ex vivo then in vivo safety trials to determine whether or not there are side effects, and this will be followed again by a series of efficacy studies to determine its actual impact. Even if the researchers and the funding organizations and the IRB fast-track the bureaucracy, each of these individual studies will take 1-2 years. It will probably be at least 5-7 years (and likely closer to a decade) before this translates into a readily available treatment, assuming that it is actually as effective and harmless as initial research seems to indicate.

EDIT: And remember, just because it has been used in humans for other purposes doesn't really impact this process at all. Not how regulatory commissions work. It needs to be approved specifically for use in patients with ALS and within a specific range of dosages, and it will take years of research to figure out what this range is and whether or not patients with ALS will respond to it (or experience side effects).
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Re: Copper-ATSM halts ALS in animals

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Yes, you have to be careful about toxicity - just because it's harmless to mice or other rodents doesn't mean it's harmless to humans or vice versa. Want some examples?

Thalidomide does not cause birth defects in rodents. It does cause decreased litter sizes, but not birth defects. In humans, however, it very much causes birth defects.

Avocado is a nutritious and safe food for humans. It is lethal even in small amounts to parrots (as too many parrot owners have found out by accident)

Humans are about the only critter that can safely eat chocolate, if we had initially tested chocolate by feeding it to experimental animals we probably would have classified it as a poison rather than giving it a latinate name meaning "food of the gods".

A quick google on the name copper-ATSM gives either descriptions of copper alloys, or talks about a medical imaging contrast substance. The first seems to not be relevant, I have no idea if the second describes the same substance as in the article but the media-contrast information all seems to discuss a radioactive form of copper-ASTM, which would most assuredly NOT be available to the general public for really any purpose. Which makes me think that this article may have purposely not given a specific name for the substance precisely to avoid home experimentation.
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Re: Copper-ATSM halts ALS in animals

Post by Darmalus »

There are non-radioactive forms of Cu-ATSM, though as a non-biologist or chemist the full names didn't mean a lot to me.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9225812
In this study, Cu(II)-diacetyl-bis(N4-methylthiosemicarbazone) (Cu-ATSM), a 62Cu-bisthiosemicarbazone complex, with high membrane permeability and low redox potential, was evaluated as a possible hypoxia imaging agent, using electron spin resonance spectrometry and the Langendorff isolated perfused rat heart model as well as rat heart left anterior descending occlusion model.

METHODS:
Nonradioactive Cu-ATSM was incubated with rat mitochondria, after which reduction of Cu(II) to Cu(I) was measured with electron spin resonance. As a model of hypoxic mitochondria, rotenone (Complex I inhibitor)-treated mitochondria were used.
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Re: Copper-ATSM halts ALS in animals

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Cosmicalstorm is the same guy who started eating a spoonful of buckyballs every day (or something like that) after he read an article or three from somewhere on the Internet about how it might maybe increase longevity.

It is worth emphasizing that while there are people who do this (randomly self-'medicate' with chemicals because they think they know what it will do), that is not a good way to learn anything about whether the substance is a useful medicine.
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Re: Copper-ATSM halts ALS in animals

Post by General Zod »

Cancer has been cured so many times in mice it'll make your head spin. Translating those cures over to humans isn't easy or simple.
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Re: Copper-ATSM halts ALS in animals

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I was being a cheeky jerk when I wrote that Broomstick. I guess I'm more of the experimental type, I would have tried this if my life was on the line. Fully aware of the "mouse not translating to humans all the time" problem.

Those researchers always emphasize that nobody should try this at home because of ethics committes, funding fluff and to avoid the FDA.
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Re: Copper-ATSM halts ALS in animals

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

cosmicalstorm wrote: Those researchers always emphasize that nobody should try this at home because of ethics committes, funding fluff and to avoid the FDA.
And, you know, to stop gullible people from hurting or killing themselves (or others).
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