New advance in Apiculture coming

[Jaepheth]

I found this really interesting because I've always wanted to try beekeeping.
Also, because I think it's neat that a 15,000 year old practice still has room for such simple improvement. SCIENCE!



Apparently this guy developed a new frame the bees build their comb on.
You turn a valve and the cells open up and drain the honey out the back; close the valve when the honey is harvested and the bees will get to chewing open the cells to refill them.
Rinse, repeat.

[Baffalo]

That's very cool. I imagine it would be less invasive for the bees since you wouldn't need to smoke them in order to calm them for harvest. Given they carry bees from here to California and such, I imagine it would be very useful to just swing a tap and drain much of the honey instead of having to open up the truck.

[salm]

When I started watching the clip i thought now they just have to implement an interior camera with WLAN access and market it as the HexComb for the upcomming Internet of Things or some shit like that. Perhaps gather some cash with a Kickstarter. Urban twentysomething hipsters will throw money at them and have iHives on their 4 m² balcony of their 5th floor downtown appartement.

And indeed, in the end he tells us that they´re kickstartering the thing. Actually they indigogoed it and money is allready thrown at them. Impressive 2.8 million dollars after 3 days. Sadly they didn´t call it HexComb but decided on Flow. You can preorder one for 600 bucks.

[Borgholio]

I recall reading awhile back about how bee populations in North America are dropping for various reasons. Having millions of extra hives around the country would go a long way to sustaining the population. Plus, nothing wrong at all with fresh honey.

[Patroklos]

Bee keeping is something I have always been interested in but have never had an appropriate property to use them on. Just building hives because you like them without thinking about how/if the local area can support them leads to lots of unhealthy hives that in fact spread diseases and contribute to bee decline rather than help with that problem.

I have worked with other people's hives though, and this would be absolutely awesome if it is as good as it looks.

[salm]

A hive like that will save you a lot of work but I think there is still some other work to do besides emptying the hives, like feeding the bees reguraliy, formal work with the veterinary office and other stuff.
Does anybody know if this is a lot or does harvesting make up the vast majority of work. I assume the latter but don´t really know.

[Jaepheth]

A hive like that will save you a lot of work but I think there is still some other work to do besides emptying the hives, like feeding the bees reguraliy, formal work with the veterinary office and other stuff.
Does anybody know if this is a lot or does harvesting make up the vast majority of work. I assume the latter but don´t really know.

From here:

Time and commitment for beekeeping

Beekeeping isn’t labor intensive. Sure you’ll spend part of a weekend putting together your new equipment. But the actual time that you absolutely must spend with your bees is surprisingly modest. Other than your first year you need to make only five to eight visits to your beehives every year. Add to that the time that you spend harvesting honey, repairing equipment, and putting things away for the season, and you’ll probably devote 35 to 40 hours a year to your hobby (more if you make a business out of it).

You do still have to check/treat for mites and other health issues.

[Baffalo]

I recall reading awhile back about how bee populations in North America are dropping for various reasons. Having millions of extra hives around the country would go a long way to sustaining the population. Plus, nothing wrong at all with fresh honey.

I think they've traced it to a particular insecticide that's killing the bees by making them unable to find their way back to the hive, thus literally roaming around lost until they die of exhaustion and hunger. The EU called for a ban of it, but it's still being investigated here in the US to determine the possible link.

[Zeropoint]

The EU called for a ban of it, but it's still being investigated here in the US to determine the possible link.

I was going to make a snarky comment about this, but I realized I am missing some information. Does the EU impose such bans with incomplete evidence, "Just in case"? Do they have lower standards for proof? Is there, in short, a legitimate reason for the United States not to accept the European scientific findings at face value?

[Thanas]

Well, the story is a bit complex.

Since the 2010s, bees started dying. Then, in 2012, studies showed the effect of pesticides on bees. Link. In particular, that research showed that the particular type of pesticides can damage the navigation system of bees. In 2013, the European commission banned the insecticides based on that research. There wasn't a definite link linking one insecticide to the colony death though.

The definite study establishing the link was actually done by Harvard University and published in May 2014.

So what we got now is research done by both European and American researchers. It is international and not a case of European vs American research. So I don't know why the USA hasn't banned the pesticides yet, but it should not be a scientific question at this point.

EDIT: In fairness, it should be pointed out that some EU states like the UK had to be dragged kicking and screaming to accept the research as well. The pesticid lobby is pretty strong.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I recall reading awhile back about how bee populations in North America are dropping for various reasons. Having millions of extra hives around the country would go a long way to sustaining the population. Plus, nothing wrong at all with fresh honey.

I think they've traced it to a particular insecticide that's killing the bees by making them unable to find their way back to the hive, thus literally roaming around lost until they die of exhaustion and hunger. The EU called for a ban of it, but it's still being investigated here in the US to determine the possible link.

By which he means "have the manufacturers of the relevant pesticides perform their own studies, then take those studies at face value. Ignore independent scientists." That is the EPA's modus operandi when it comes to pesticides.

So what we got now is research done by both European and American researchers. It is international and not a case of European vs American research. So I don't know why the USA hasn't banned the pesticides yet, but it should not be a scientific question at this point. =

Oh, that would have been the case anyway. You will not find a group of researchers with as strong multinational ties as the people who study social insects. Labs in the US and Germany trade graduate students back and forth, everyone crosses the pond for conferences and miniature workshops, EVERYONE pools grant money.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Oh. And something has been bothering me about this particular product.

You are robbing the bees. The cells are basically split open, completely draining their honey supply. They dont make that for us. They make it so they can eat during the non-summer months. Beekeepers have to be very careful about how much honey they actually take during a honey harvest so that their colony has enough to survive say, winter. So just opening up the tap is a good way to kill off the entire colony by way of starvation.

Lastly, they use the same cells for their brood. Yeah, split the cells in half. Rip apart those larvae, crack open the pupating workers inside. Great job.

[StandingInFire]

.... The cells are basically split open, completely draining their honey supply ...

I would assume its setup in such a way that it does not open every cell in the hive, it could just be every other cell or whatever ratio is appropriate to maintain the colony while generating honey. Considering they tested it apparently with some beekeepers this issue would have come up in the design, I could not find any detailed info on their site however.

[salm]

Aren´t bees allways robbed when taking their honey? Is there something special about this approach?
AFAIK beekeepers are supposed to leave a part of the honey to the bees and then feed them with sugar water to compensate for the lost honey.
Or are you bothered by honey in general?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Aren´t bees allways robbed when taking their honey? Is there something special about this approach?
AFAIK beekeepers are supposed to leave a part of the honey to the bees and then feed them with sugar water to compensate for the lost honey.
Or are you bothered by honey in general?

I will use an analogy. Taking some honey from the bees is a bit like taxation or a fee for service (granted the bees dont know that). You provide them with a hive, and in fact numerous perfectly viable hives for when the colony gets large and splits (yes, they do that) with a new queen in a new colony while the old one continues to thrive. You protect them from predators, make absolutely sure that there are plenty of flowers for them to get nectar and pollen from (they use the pollen as a source of protein). In return, you take some of the honey. Everyone wins. Including the bees. You leave them enough honey that they wont starve, and give them sugar water so they can build the supply back up (but it is not actually enough sugar for them to live on during the winter).

What this system does is like a private equity firm cleaning out the employee pension fund, tanking wages, and laying off as many workers as possible to increase quarterly profits before selling off the emaciated shell of a business so as to retire with golden parachutes.

To say nothing of splitting the cells that contain the colony's offspring.

[salm]

Aren´t bees allways robbed when taking their honey? Is there something special about this approach?
AFAIK beekeepers are supposed to leave a part of the honey to the bees and then feed them with sugar water to compensate for the lost honey.
Or are you bothered by honey in general?

I will use an analogy. Taking some honey from the bees is a bit like taxation or a fee for service (granted the bees dont know that). You provide them with a hive, and in fact numerous perfectly viable hives for when the colony gets large and splits (yes, they do that) with a new queen in a new colony while the old one continues to thrive. You protect them from predators, make absolutely sure that there are plenty of flowers for them to get nectar and pollen from (they use the pollen as a source of protein). In return, you take some of the honey. Everyone wins. Including the bees. You leave them enough honey that they wont starve, and give them sugar water so they can build the supply back up (but it is not actually enough sugar for them to live on during the winter).

What this system does is like a private equity firm cleaning out the employee pension fund, tanking wages, and laying off as many workers as possible to increase quarterly profits before selling off the emaciated shell of a business so as to retire with golden parachutes.

To say nothing of splitting the cells that contain the colony's offspring.

Have you looked deep enough into this technology to come to this conclusion or is it based on rather superficial observation? Maybe there are mechanisms to prevent all honey from leaving the cells or somehting like that?
I mean it doesn´t seem very profitable for the beekeepers to kill off the offspring, so i guess there is a demand for such mechanisms.

[salm]

Actually their website states in the FAQ that you should allways leave some honey in there and that their system makes it easier to check how much honey is in the comb.

[salm]

In normal beehives beekeepers separate brooding areas from honey areas. It doesn´t seem to me that it would be impossible to do that with this new type of hives. So cracking the cells wouldn´t matter because no offspring would be in them. Just like in regular hives. Correct me if I´m wrong.

[Broomstick]

Actually, it's the bees that separate brooding cells from honey storage cells (they also separate the pollen storage as well). They do that on their own, if allowed. While the same wax and architecture is used they're actually different parts of the hive.

Yes, honey harvesting means stealing from the bees. Bees actually make and store more honey than they actually need because, in the wild, their nests do get raided, and by raiders that don't have any understanding about leave something for the bees to live on. In fact, critters like bears will eat their young as well as the honey.

Old-style beehives could not be harvested without destroying the colony. Modern hives - including the one depicted here - take advantage of the bees' natural urge to segregate the purposes' of the cells with the honey on the top levels of the hive. This allows harvesting with minimal damage to the hive. The system in the OP is just a more automated form of that.

As to whether or not all of the honey is drained ... look, there are assholes everywhere. A beekeeper that does that is a dumbass. Leaving enough for the hive is something that's been a notion for awhile, hence modern hives that allowing harvesting without killing off the colony.

[Alyrium Denryle]

In normal beehives beekeepers separate brooding areas from honey areas. It doesn´t seem to me that it would be impossible to do that with this new type of hives. So cracking the cells wouldn´t matter because no offspring would be in them. Just like in regular hives. Correct me if I´m wrong.

I did just go over their patent again. You are right, the Brood Box is in a separate compartment. That is not the case in all hives (or natural hives). A lot depends on the design of the hive in question. Some have specialized brood boxes where the queen is kept physically separated from the cells where honey is produced and stored (they use size-selected gates, the queens are bigger than the workers). Others have the bees doing all the zoning, which with a flow hive would be bad.

Actually their website states in the FAQ that you should allways leave some honey in there and that their system makes it easier to check how much honey is in the comb.

Do you have the relevant section? I dont see a way to do the checking without opening the hive, and I am looking at their patent. Unless they do some sort of remote-sensing.

[salm]

Do you have the relevant section? I dont see a way to do the checking without opening the hive, and I am looking at their patent. Unless they do some sort of remote-sensing.

http://www.honeyflow.com/faqs/do-i-need ... -bees/p/51

It doesn´t state directly how it is done but from the text and the following video I gather that you can see into the hive to a sufficient degree:
At around 1:30 the part seeing into the hive starts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbMV9qYIXqM

[LaCroix]

This is one of the gadgets that sound great to the absolute layman, until you hear an expert speak.



This expert goes on and on about while the harvesting would be much easier, the hive maintennance problems this system causes are horrible.

Certainly, these problems can be dealt with by proper maintennance (excess way removal, etc.), but what does that mean? You'd have to break open the hive in regular intervals (basically after each harvest) to do this properly, which normally, would be done during harvest. So, not much gained, but a lot problems (mostly bee hive healt related) added.

If things have been done a certain way for centuries and millenia with only some machines added to replace the guys cranking handwheels, there is usually a reason for that.