Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

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jwl
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Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

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It underpins the whole theory of quantum mechanics, but does it exist? For nearly a century physicists have argued about whether the wave function is a real part of the world or just a mathematical tool. Now, the first experiment in years to draw a line in the quantum sand suggests we should take it seriously.

The wave function helps predict the results of quantum experiments with incredible accuracy. But it describes a world where particles have fuzzy properties – for example, existing in two places at the same time. Erwin Schrödinger argued in 1935 that treating the wave function as a real thing leads to the perplexing situation where a cat in a box can be both dead and alive, until someone opens the box and observes it.

Those who want an objective description of the world – one that doesn't depend on how you're looking at it – have two options. They can accept that the wave function is real and that the cat is both dead and alive. Or they can argue that the wave function is just a mathematical tool, which represents our lack of knowledge about the status of the poor cat, sometimes called the "epistemic interpretation". This was the interpretation favoured by Albert Einstein, who allegedly asked, "Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it?"

The trouble is, very few experiments have been performed that can rule versions of quantum mechanics in or out. Previous work that claimed to propose a way to test whether the wave function is real made a splash in the physics communityMovie Camera, but turned out to be based on improper assumptions, and no one ever ran the experiment.

What a state

Now, Eric Cavalcanti at the University of Sydney and Alessandro Fedrizzi at the University of Queensland, both in Australia, and their colleagues have made a measurement of the reality of the quantum wave function. Their results rule out a large class of interpretations of quantum mechanics and suggest that if there is any objective description of the world, the famous wave function is part of it: Schrödinger's cat actually is both dead and alive.

"In my opinion, this is the first experiment to place significant bounds on the viability of an epistemic interpretation of the quantum state," says Matthew Leifer at the Perimeter Institute in Waterloo, Canada.

The experiment relies on the quantum properties of something that could be in one of two states, as long as the states are not complete opposites of each other: like a photon that is polarised vertically or on a diagonal, but not horizontally. If the wave function is real, then a single experiment should not be able to determine its polarisation – it can have both until you take more measurements.

Alternatively, if the wave function is not real, then there is no fuzziness and the photon is in a single polarisation state all along. The researchers published a mathematical proof last year showing that, in this case, each measurement you make reveals some information about the polarisation.

Get real

In a complicated setup that involved pairs of photons and hundreds of very accurate measurements, the team showed that the wave function must be real: not enough information could be gained about the polarisation of the photons to imply they were in particular states before measurement.

There are a few ways to save the epistemic view, the team says, but they invite other exotic interpretations. Killing the wave function could mean leaving open the door to many interacting worlds and retrocausality – the idea that things that happen in the future can influence the past.

The results leave some wiggle room, though, because they didn't completely rule out the possibility of some underlying non-fuzzy reality. There may still be a way to distinguish quantum states from each other that their experiment didn't capture. But Howard Wiseman from Griffith University in Brisbane, Australia, says that shouldn't weaken the results. "It's saying there's definitely some reality to the wave function," he says. "You have to admit that to some extent there's some reality to the wave function, so if you've gone that far, why don't you just go the whole way?"
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... NaP5PmsW8U
Original Paper preprint:
Abstract
Quantum mechanics is an outstandingly successful description of nature, underpinning fields from biology through chemistry to physics. At its heart is the quantum wavefunction, the central tool for describing quantum systems. Yet it is still unclear what the wavefunction actually is: does it merely represent our limited knowledge of a system, or is it an element of reality? Recent no-go theorems[11–16] argued that if there was any underlying reality to start with, the wavefunction must be real. However, that conclusion relied on debatable assumptions, without which a partial knowledge interpretation can be maintained to some extent[15, 18]. A different approach is to impose bounds on the degree to which knowledge interpretations can explain quantum phenomena, such as why we cannot perfectly distinguish non-orthogonal quantum states[19–21]. Here we experimentally test this approach with single photons. We find that no knowledge interpretation can fully explain the indistinguishability of non-orthogonal quantum states in three and four dimensions. Assuming that some underlying reality exists, our results strengthen the view that the entire wavefunction should be real. The only alternative is to adopt more unorthodox concepts such as backwards-intime causation, or to completely abandon any notion of objective reality.
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1412.6213v2.pdf

I however, can say the wavefunction is most definitely not real. It's complex. :twisted:
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Re: Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

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That's not what the paper actually establishes. What they're ruling out is a hidden-variable theory that says that the wavefunction represents a state of partial knowledge about some underlying reality. The experiment supports the proposition that there is no underlying reality that the wavefunction misses--but that does not actually imply that the wavefunction is real.

All of the above is explained directly in the first two paragraphs of the paper. The alternative is that that wavefunction represents a complete state of knowledge, but is not necessarily "reality". The strong form of this view is attributed QBists in the paper, although it's also quite close to Copenhagen.
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Re: Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

I don't even entirely understand exactly what is meant by the concept of the wave function being "real" or not. Isn't it more appropriate to be talking about verifying the wave function in terms of its mathematical assumptions? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but the wave function doesn't even have a generalized/closed form. It just feels weird to me to talk about the wave function in terms of being "real" or not, as opposed to talking about it in terms of how well its assumptions align with reality.
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Re: Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

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Kuroneko wrote:That's not what the paper actually establishes. What they're ruling out is a hidden-variable theory that says that the wavefunction represents a state of partial knowledge about some underlying reality. The experiment supports the proposition that there is no underlying reality that the wavefunction misses--but that does not actually imply that the wavefunction is real.

All of the above is explained directly in the first two paragraphs of the paper. The alternative is that that wavefunction represents a complete state of knowledge, but is not necessarily "reality". The strong form of this view is attributed QBists in the paper, although it's also quite close to Copenhagen.
Eh? To the best of my knowledge the hidden-variable hypothesis was soundly disproved in the sixties and nobody of note has proposed it since.

(I'm disappointed, I was hoping that somebody had come up with some bonkers permutation of physics that made wavefunctions be real in the mathematical sense, rather than confirming something that everybody's known for fifty years.)
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Re: Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

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Feil wrote:
Kuroneko wrote:That's not what the paper actually establishes. What they're ruling out is a hidden-variable theory that says that the wavefunction represents a state of partial knowledge about some underlying reality. The experiment supports the proposition that there is no underlying reality that the wavefunction misses--but that does not actually imply that the wavefunction is real.

All of the above is explained directly in the first two paragraphs of the paper. The alternative is that that wavefunction represents a complete state of knowledge, but is not necessarily "reality". The strong form of this view is attributed QBists in the paper, although it's also quite close to Copenhagen.
Eh? To the best of my knowledge the hidden-variable hypothesis was soundly disproved in the sixties and nobody of note has proposed it since.

(I'm disappointed, I was hoping that somebody had come up with some bonkers permutation of physics that made wavefunctions be real in the mathematical sense, rather than confirming something that everybody's known for fifty years.)
Someone did do that too a year or so ago. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-bit
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Re: Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

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Ziggy Stardust wrote:I don't even entirely understand exactly what is meant by the concept of the wave function being "real" or not. ... It just feels weird to me to talk about the wave function in terms of being "real" or not, as opposed to talking about it in terms of how well its assumptions align with reality.
You're far from alone. The orthodox Copenhagen view would dismiss the question as to whether or not the wavefunction is "real" in any sense beyond "predicts the outcomes of experiments" as physically meaningless.
Ziggy Stardust wrote:I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but the wave function doesn't even have a generalized/closed form.
I'm not sure what you mean. Given a pure state |ψ〉 and an orthonormal basis {|k〉}, the wavefunction is by definition ψ(k) = 〈k|ψ〉. Usually, the basis is formed by the eigenstates of the observable(s) of interest, e.g. for the position basis, ψ(x) = 〈x|ψ〉, in which case the wavefunction is just a mapping from the position eigenvalue x to the xth component of |ψ〉 in the basis consisting of position eigenstates.

The ket |ψ〉 itself is an abstract notion that represents a state of maximal information. I'm don't know what it would mean for it to have or not have a closed form.
Feil wrote:Eh? To the best of my knowledge the hidden-variable hypothesis was soundly disproved in the sixties and nobody of note has proposed it since.
Apparently, about a decade ago, Spekkens proposed a toy model in which argued but did not establish an epistemic view of quantum mechanics. It never did violate the Bell inequalities, so it was never a serious proposal. This new paper aims to demolish Spekkens with a Bell-like inequality but specifically aimed at the epistemic part of the proposal.

So basically, Spekkens's proposal does not pass Bell's inequalities anyway, but Ringbauer et al. found something weaker than Bell's inequalities that demolishes the toy model as well. Which is neat in a sense, but I can't understand why it's presented in such an aggrandizing manner.
Feil wrote:(I'm disappointed, I was hoping that somebody had come up with some bonkers permutation of physics that made wavefunctions be real in the mathematical sense, rather than confirming something that everybody's known for fifty years.)
Arguably, quantum mechanics in phase space already meets this requirement. Wigner derived in 1932 that states, not necessarily pure but also mixed, could be represented by quasiprobability distributions over the phase space. The main conceptual deviation from standard probability over phase space, as is done in classical mechanics, is that Wigner quasiprobability distributions are allowed to be negative.
jwl wrote:Someone did do that too a year or so ago. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-bit
Hmm. This seems to be a variation of Stueckelberg’s method (ca. early 1960s) of taking a real vector space with an extra complex structure defined on it. Complex structures also emerge naturally in phase space quantization, and it seems that Wootters wants to understand how this happens in more general setting.
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Re: Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

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Kuroneko wrote:
Feil wrote:Eh? To the best of my knowledge the hidden-variable hypothesis was soundly disproved in the sixties and nobody of note has proposed it since.
Apparently, about a decade ago, Spekkens proposed a toy model in which argued but did not establish an epistemic view of quantum mechanics. It never did violate the Bell inequalities, so it was never a serious proposal. This new paper aims to demolish Spekkens with a Bell-like inequality but specifically aimed at the epistemic part of the proposal.

So basically, Spekkens's proposal does not pass Bell's inequalities anyway, but Ringbauer et al. found something weaker than Bell's inequalities that demolishes the toy model as well. Which is neat in a sense, but I can't understand why it's presented in such an aggrandizing manner.
Why does someone say this then:
Matthew Leifer at the Perimeter Institute in Waterloo, Canada wrote: "In my opinion, this is the first experiment to place significant bounds on the viability of an epistemic interpretation of the quantum state,"
?
Anyway, they cite two other papers in the abstract.
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Re: Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

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Ah, you're right! I did misunderstand why it's presented in the way it is. I was so used to non-local models being discounted as unphysical that I missed part of an important point of this paper: the Bell-analogue inequality (1) in their paper would also restrict non-local models of QM. (Spekkens' model is local and is killed by Bell's inequalities, but as you say, they refer to others as well.)

Therefore, this is a result on restrictions on possible hidden-variable models of QM even if one discounts the assumptions of Bell's theorem, non-locality and measurement and preparation noncontextuality in particular. That's actually much more interesting than I first thought, though again, this is less than 'the wavefunction is real' because it doesn't address anything in Copenhagen, QBism, etc.
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Re: Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

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Ok, Quantum physics is hard. If someone can layman this up a bit. IIRC, the classical experiment was if they observed the particle moving down towards a slit in paper (or something) it did weird shit but if they didn't look at it, it hit in a predicted area. Is this what they are talking about?

I thought, and probably wrong about it, that they figured it was light or other particles bouncing off the particles being 'observed' that were screwing with it and no light when not being observed that let it hit in predicted patterns.

Again, a bit above my head so if I have it wrong can someone dumb it up for me?
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Re: Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

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No, they're talking about different things. What they're talking about is, essentially, quantum entanglement. Essentially, the idea that two quantum particles are entangled, meaning that two quanta that are spit out of a phenomena at the same time are, by definition, in opposite spin-states. One up, one down, but you don't know what state one is in unless you measure it.

The theory for a while was that the state was in principle knowable, the "hidden variable" theory. This stated that the quantum particles have a defined state when they are emitted.

This has been, over time, disproven, first by Bell with the inequality theorem, which this article seems to be supporting at a kinda "duh" level.
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Re: Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

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Ah, thank you.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

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