Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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cosmicalstorm
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Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

Post by cosmicalstorm »

This is a bit haunting! Reminds me of The Moral Virologist by Greg Egan, which can be read for free online if you google it.
Bolding by me.
Autodesk, which develops design software for building very big things, just built a very small thing.

Its own virus.

The San Rafael, Calif., company has revealed to Re/code that last month it produced a synthetic Phi-X174 bacteriophage, a virus that infects the E. coli bacteria but is totally benign for humans. They conducted the experiment in a controlled lab setting with the help of Dr. Paul Jaschke of Stanford University.

The effort was a sort of scientific homage to the work of the J. Craig Venter Institute, which first produced the self-replicating synthetic virus back in 2003, following a more than five-year research effort. In Autodesk’s case, it took a little more than two weeks and about $1,000.

That achievement says a lot about how far the science of synthetic biology has come — and a lot about where Autodesk is going.

“These viruses started their existence as a file on my laptop and a [purchase order] number with a DNA synthesis vendor!” said Andrew Hessel, a distinguished researcher with Autodesk’s new Bio/Nano Programmable Matter group, in an email.

“It’s a 3-D printed virus,” he added. “With further development of the process, the designs, the design software — we can help scientists make useful applications, like personalized cancer treatments or new vaccines.”


Autodesk, which is still best known for producing AutoCAD software for architects and engineers, wants to stake a claim in the center of a promising new world.

The company is collaborating with leading scientists on a research effort known as “Project Cyborg.” They’re attempting to build a software platform that could enable greater design complexity as researchers work to engineer self-assembling DNA, proteins, viruses, cells, tissues and more.

The company first revealed its ambitions at TED in 2013 and has been refining its approach since. Hessel told Re/code the company is gearing up for the next phase of product development, putting the tools into the hands of a broader group of researchers.

“There’s never been a comprehensive set of tools in this space,” Hessel said in an interview. “So we’re looking at whether we can build accessible software based on what we’ve learned in order to facilitate laboratory work, bioengineering and nano design.”

In the Ted Talk below, MIT’s Skylar Tibbits discusses how using Project Cyborg assists the design process for what he calls 4-D printing, where the fourth dimension is time — as physical products self assemble after they’re produced:

A key goal of Project Nano is to connect existing software tools in the field, so that they can talk to each other as well as with Autodesk applications like Maya, an animation tool used in Hollywood blockbusters.

Various research labs have attacked parts of this problem. The Baker Laboratory at the University of Washington created Rosetta, widely used software for designing proteins, as Re/code wrote about last month.

Shawn Douglas, an assistant professor at UC San Francisco, developed Cadnano for DNA design and collaborated with Project Cyborg to improve the 3-D functionality of the open source tool.

Meanwhile, private DNA synthesis shop Gen9 is working on its own software specifically to support “visualization and design for manufacturability,” Chief Executive Kevin Munnelly said.

At this stage, it’s unclear which parties will end up as partners, rivals or something else in the emerging space, he added.

“It’s still a very early industry, so [it could be] cooperation or cooper-etition, data sharing or API linking, all of those things can happen,” he said.

Of course, putting these tools into more people’s hands carries risks as well. While scientists see great potential to create novel medicines, vaccines and nanomaterials, bad actors could attempt to use them to create bio-weapons.

Hessel himself has pointed this out, notably by co-writing a memorable piece for the Atlantic titled “Hacking the President’s DNA.”

DNA synthesis companies like Gen9 have already put some safeguards in place, including automatic pre-screening of DNA orders for whole or partial sequences that carry telltale signs of pathogens.

Autodesk didn’t have any explicit commercial purpose in creating the viruses, which the company has already destroyed. It mainly wanted to walk through the process, including ordering precisely specified DNA strands from synthesis shops, to gain a better sense of where the market stands.

“I thought opening up this channel and understanding it was very important,” Hessel said. “The take-home message for me is that genome synthesis today has significantly improved over the years and now is capable of routinely producing about 5,000 base pairs without much trouble.”

The Phi-X174 virus genome consists of 5,386 base pairs of nucleotides, the basic structural unit of DNA. By way of comparison, the human genome stretches out to 3 billion.

Commercializing anything out of Project Cyborg could still be years away. So it remains to be seen whether Autodesk is timing the market right — or will ultimately emerge as a leader in the space.

But it’s increasingly clear there’s a giant opportunity in the nano world.

“They see synthetic biology and bionanotechnology as a future industry,” Douglas said. “The way you get a foothold and become relevant is by experimenting; try out different things and that knowledge accumulates over time.”

To learn more about synthetic biology, check out the primer in the video below — or the many additional resources on Andrew Hessel’s site.
https://recode.net/2014/05/05/autodesk- ... fe-itself/
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

Post by LaCroix »

Wait a sec - they printed a custom-built new virus? As in, they printed something that became alive?
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

Post by salm »

If a virus is alive is debatable.

Knowing how Autodesk products work the Virus is probably bugged and you´ll have to wait until Service Pack 3 is out in order to do anything useful with it.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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The skeptical part of me suspects there is something too good to be true about this but I'm not knowledgeable enough to say what.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Fuck. When I saw the thread title I thought it meant a computer virus, not a real one.

Also, I am slightly worried that we've reached the point where you can make throwaway references to DNA synthesis shops that you can order protein strands from.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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How long until someone tries to use this process for a virus that will "cure" homosexuality?
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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Borgholio wrote:How long until someone tries to use this process for a virus that will "cure" homosexuality?
Pretty sure we are going to get super Ebola or a zombie virus crafted from Rabies before we get curing viruses. Sorry but our love of murder will trump our love of hating other humans.

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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

Post by Lolpah »

Borgholio wrote:How long until someone tries to use this process for a virus that will "cure" homosexuality?
Pretty long, considering we don't know which genes and environmental factors are involved.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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Mr Bean wrote:
Borgholio wrote:How long until someone tries to use this process for a virus that will "cure" homosexuality?
Pretty sure we are going to get super Ebola or a zombie virus crafted from Rabies before we get curing viruses. Sorry but our love of murder will trump our love of hating other humans.
...what makes you think the two goals above are exclusive? :wink:

And that's sadly the scary part.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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Honestly, I think the relative dearth of random disgruntled microbiologists with multimillion-dollar lab setups is going to be an obstacle to attempts to create lethal viruses from scratch. The only people who will be doing this any time soon are large organizations. And most large organizations are more likely to be working on cures than diseases, since bioweapons are a very risky way to hurt an enemy.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

Post by Zaune »

As long as it still needs a multi-million dollar lab. Laser cutting equipment used to be the exclusive preserve of large organisations a couple of decades ago, but now you can buy one for the price of a new BMW with all the optional extras. And I know for a fact that the Hackspace in central London has a cobbled-together "bio-hacking" lab and ambitions to be the first hobbyist organisation to do its own genetic engineering.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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Simon_Jester wrote:Honestly, I think the relative dearth of random disgruntled microbiologists with multimillion-dollar lab setups is going to be an obstacle to attempts to create lethal viruses from scratch.
Multi-million is easily within reach of individuals, like say Koch brothers or Saudi family. Hell, 10 more years and I bet individual terrorist leaders will be able to afford one.
The only people who will be doing this any time soon are large organizations. And most large organizations are more likely to be working on cures than diseases, since bioweapons are a very risky way to hurt an enemy.
If you can make a weapon that selectively targets, say, Jews or gays, or doesn't attack your specific ethnic group, you can sure bet someone will try. If you can find willing people to bomb abortion clinics, or blow up TNT backpack in a crowd, acting as a carrier for a disease that is not lethal for you (or even is lethal) is going to be trivial.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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Zaune wrote:And I know for a fact that the Hackspace in central London has a cobbled-together "bio-hacking" lab and ambitions to be the first hobbyist organisation to do its own genetic engineering.
This sentence will give me nightmares for weeks to come.

That's exactly how you get pandemics and stuff - genetic engineering in the hands of people who "read up on it"...
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

Post by Zaune »

Having hung out at the London Hackspace over New Year, I'm more worried they'll try to bioengineer catgirls.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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Irbis wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:Honestly, I think the relative dearth of random disgruntled microbiologists with multimillion-dollar lab setups is going to be an obstacle to attempts to create lethal viruses from scratch.
Multi-million is easily within reach of individuals, like say Koch brothers or Saudi family. Hell, 10 more years and I bet individual terrorist leaders will be able to afford one.
It's more complicated than that.

High-end laboratory equipment setups aren't just a capital investment up front. There is an ongoing need for technical support. There are paper trails created by the manufacturer (since only a few firms in the world know how to make such precision equipment, and everyone knows it's potentially dangerous, it's like centrifuges for refining fissile material). There is a need for technical specialists in demanding fields where most of the competent people already know each other and are part of an interacting community (microbiology, nuclear physics).

This sort of thing creates a surprisingly high barrier to WMD creation; I say 'surprising' because if it weren't surprisingly high, such creation would already have happened.
The only people who will be doing this any time soon are large organizations. And most large organizations are more likely to be working on cures than diseases, since bioweapons are a very risky way to hurt an enemy.
If you can make a weapon that selectively targets, say, Jews or gays, or doesn't attack your specific ethnic group, you can sure bet someone will try. If you can find willing people to bomb abortion clinics, or blow up TNT backpack in a crowd, acting as a carrier for a disease that is not lethal for you (or even is lethal) is going to be trivial.
I am honestly not sure it will be practical to do this. It will certainly not be practical to make a bioweapon that selectively targets gays and doesn't have a massive risk of mutating and blowing back into the straight population.

Large organizations of any kind are more likely to be conservative about that issue than fringe nuts are.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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Simon_Jester wrote:It's more complicated than that.

High-end laboratory equipment setups...
Nope!

Unfortunately, the hurdle in synthetic biology is actually getting a gene that does the right thing, not the building the organism that uses it. The actual process of sticking the gene into an organism is trivial, takes a matter of hours and costs a few hundred or thousand dollars. You could do it with about as much equipment as cooking meth. I'm surrounded on a daily basis by dozens of people who genetically modify organisms. Undergrads can stuff a new gene into bacteria or plants overnight*.

The trouble is making genes or groups of genes that do what you want. Once you have that there is a slight headache that once you bung them into your test organism it just dies, or becomes so shit at living that it gets outcompeted by everything else around it, and then dies**. I have no doubt that synthetic biology will be capable of remarkable things in the future. Perfectly harmless and beneficial research will turn up things like genes from different populations of people interfering with efficacy of drugs, and then the development of ways to target/avoid the mechanisms those genes create to make anti cancer drugs more effective. This will then "trivially" become a building block in targeting those same populations with a pathogenic organism.

You could literally do this with two genes, one that detects presence of quality X that denotes your target population, and if present this gene then activates another gene that has the function "produce cyanide". This kind of system is commonplace in labs currently, and takes not very long to engineer. Currently the usage of this is things like "detect hormone X" and "produce green fluorescent protein", you can tell these model systems work because your test tube literally glows bright green when hormone X is dropped in. The only hurdles to weaponisation are getting a specific enough detector and an effective enough warhead into an organism that is transmissible from person to person. You could basically have a biological weapon that was a flu pandemic for people you liked and fatal to everyone you didn't. Drop it into the population annually for a few years and almost all your target group get killed. It would actually be worse than high mortality diseases are normally if you were going after a minority group within your population as high mortality diseases are self limiting because by killing the host you stop them transmitting disease, and so by having most people as carriers it spreads more rapidly and for longer.

The situation as it stands is that targeted deployment of anything is a research question, but once it becomes an engineering exercise it will then be inexpensive and even less technically challenging than today.

*this gives the occasional slide in presentations such as "everything died" or "it started growing inside out" or "it looks like it had exploded". Luckily they were working on plants.

**the solution to this is to just stuff in some antibiotic resistance genes and do your experiments in a vat of antibiotics!
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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This is why we need mechanical nano tech to keep up the arms race, so we can build infected cell rupturing nano submarines. That might even work some day, its certainly been explored on a purely computational basis in terms of the required atomic arrangements. Then you could have an effective countermeasure to any possible viral infection so long as you can identify it; though I suppose the blood brain barrier would remain as annoying as ever.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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Steel wrote:I have no doubt that synthetic biology will be capable of remarkable things in the future. Perfectly harmless and beneficial research will turn up things like genes from different populations of people interfering with efficacy of drugs, and then the development of ways to target/avoid the mechanisms those genes create to make anti cancer drugs more effective. This will then "trivially" become a building block in targeting those same populations with a pathogenic organism.

You could literally do this with two genes, one that detects presence of quality X that denotes your target population, and if present this gene then activates another gene that has the function "produce cyanide". This kind of system is commonplace in labs currently, and takes not very long to engineer. Currently the usage of this is things like "detect hormone X" and "produce green fluorescent protein", you can tell these model systems work because your test tube literally glows bright green when hormone X is dropped in. The only hurdles to weaponisation are getting a specific enough detector and an effective enough warhead into an organism that is transmissible from person to person...
What I mean is, if you allow this thing to become a pandemic in the wild, the risk of it mutating and starting to produce cyanide for everyone. Or the risk of it starting to do this in groups that you didn't specifically target and that might feel vindictive, say if some homophobic monstrosity tries to kill all the gays and it turns out that his 'gay gene' is one that 40% of the straight population has a recessive for. Or the risk of the tailored germ exchanging its "produce cyanide" gene with other organisms.

Now, it's still possible this will happen anyway if it becomes trivial to both whip up the right gene and insert it into the target organism. And if the would-be viral engineer decides there's no need for substantial testing of the germ before he releases it into the wild. Because then you don't need multimillion dollar setups to create your bioweapon.

After this happens once, the odds are pretty good that whoever's left alive will make it a lot harder to get your hands on gene-splicing equipment.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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Simon_Jester wrote:
Steel wrote:I have no doubt that synthetic biology will be capable of remarkable things in the future. Perfectly harmless and beneficial research will turn up things like genes from different populations of people interfering with efficacy of drugs, and then the development of ways to target/avoid the mechanisms those genes create to make anti cancer drugs more effective. This will then "trivially" become a building block in targeting those same populations with a pathogenic organism.

You could literally do this with two genes, one that detects presence of quality X that denotes your target population, and if present this gene then activates another gene that has the function "produce cyanide". This kind of system is commonplace in labs currently, and takes not very long to engineer. Currently the usage of this is things like "detect hormone X" and "produce green fluorescent protein", you can tell these model systems work because your test tube literally glows bright green when hormone X is dropped in. The only hurdles to weaponisation are getting a specific enough detector and an effective enough warhead into an organism that is transmissible from person to person...
What I mean is, if you allow this thing to become a pandemic in the wild, the risk of it mutating and starting to produce cyanide for everyone. Or the risk of it starting to do this in groups that you didn't specifically target and that might feel vindictive, say if some homophobic monstrosity tries to kill all the gays and it turns out that his 'gay gene' is one that 40% of the straight population has a recessive for. Or the risk of the tailored germ exchanging its "produce cyanide" gene with other organisms.

Now, it's still possible this will happen anyway if it becomes trivial to both whip up the right gene and insert it into the target organism. And if the would-be viral engineer decides there's no need for substantial testing of the germ before he releases it into the wild. Because then you don't need multimillion dollar setups to create your bioweapon.

After this happens once, the odds are pretty good that whoever's left alive will make it a lot harder to get your hands on gene-splicing equipment.
Making a perfect bioweapon would be really expensive, and possibly actually impossible given how much of a terrible cludge nature threw together to make DNA and living creatures, but making one that was good enough is fairly cheap and easy once the basic research is done, unfortunately. The larger problem than the disease becoming fatal to you would actually just be it mutating to not kill anyone, but this can be gotten around by dropping slight modifications of it into the population repeatedly.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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Irbis wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:Honestly, I think the relative dearth of random disgruntled microbiologists with multimillion-dollar lab setups is going to be an obstacle to attempts to create lethal viruses from scratch.
Multi-million is easily within reach of individuals, like say Koch brothers or Saudi family. Hell, 10 more years and I bet individual terrorist leaders will be able to afford
While technically correct, that's generally not what people mean by individuals. The Koch brothers essentially are a multinational conglomerate, while the house of Saud is essentially a country and a multinational conglomerate. That's like saying NYC skyscrapers are available to individuals, because John D. Rockefeller decided to build Rockefeller Center. Technically true, but incredibly misleading.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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Steel wrote:Making a perfect bioweapon would be really expensive, and possibly actually impossible given how much of a terrible cludge nature threw together to make DNA and living creatures, but making one that was good enough is fairly cheap and easy once the basic research is done, unfortunately. The larger problem than the disease becoming fatal to you would actually just be it mutating to not kill anyone, but this can be gotten around by dropping slight modifications of it into the population repeatedly.
What I'm saying is that every time you create such a targeted germ, you are introducing a small but noticeable existential risk to yourself. Granted that the 'risk' of the germ simply ceasing to be fatal is higher, but it's still there.

There are plenty of private individuals who would shrug off such a risk, or who could personally take precautions that they think would protect them. But organizations, groups that have collected their wealth and power slowly over time, tend to be more conservative because they have more need to plan ahead. They will be reluctant to accept such risks, except in very unusual conditions.

So the real threat is, yes, that people will be able to buy an Easy-Bake Genetic Resequencer at any of numerous supply outlets and do whatever they like with it without supervision. If either the equipment or the necessary training to use it effectively becomes hard for random people to get, this risk declines sharply.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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Simon_Jester wrote:What I'm saying is that every time you create such a targeted germ, you are introducing a small but noticeable existential risk to yourself. Granted that the 'risk' of the germ simply ceasing to be fatal is higher, but it's still there.

There are plenty of private individuals who would shrug off such a risk, or who could personally take precautions that they think would protect them. But organizations, groups that have collected their wealth and power slowly over time, tend to be more conservative because they have more need to plan ahead. They will be reluctant to accept such risks, except in very unusual conditions.
Indeed there is a risk, but it is not particularly high, especially when you consider the minds of people who might actually try and use one of these things. Additionally as a deterrent like nukes advancements would make it vastly higher threat than what we currently think of as bioweapons.
So the real threat is, yes, that people will be able to buy an Easy-Bake Genetic Resequencer at any of numerous supply outlets and do whatever they like with it without supervision. If either the equipment or the necessary training to use it effectively becomes hard for random people to get, this risk declines sharply.
Students can engineer new organisms in a matter of hours, and have been doing for over a decade. GM just became orders of magnitide easier with recent advances that cut out a lot of the magic and guesswork behind actually building things too, so the pace is rapidly increasing.

You don't need a lot of machinery, it really is just chemistry and sticking the right parts together. If bikers can make meth, and students can make glowing goop, I really don't see this kind of thing as being beyond third world labs. This is especially in the context of everywhere I've been in africa, no matter how poor, having at least one lab that can do genetic sequencing of pathogens already. By the time this stuff becomes possible at all I don't see it as being out of the reach of any government, determined group or skilled individual.
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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There's been some inconsistent reporting of it, based on what on the radio regarding this I thought scientists had managed to insert synthetic nucleobases into DNA, something other than the GATC selection of letters. That sounded seriously cool to me, but this is maybe even cooler if it's true, 3D printing stuff at the molecular level, really?
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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His Divine Shadow wrote:There's been some inconsistent reporting of it, based on what on the radio regarding this I thought scientists had managed to insert synthetic nucleobases into DNA, something other than the GATC selection of letters. That sounded seriously cool to me, but this is maybe even cooler if it's true, 3D printing stuff at the molecular level, really?
That's a different, far more awesome story :D

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 8#p3839478

(It seems nobody posted about it. Fixed :))
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Re: Autodesk Builds Its Own Synthetic Virus

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PKRudeBoy wrote:While technically correct, that's generally not what people mean by individuals. The Koch brothers essentially are a multinational conglomerate, while the house of Saud is essentially a country and a multinational conglomerate. That's like saying NYC skyscrapers are available to individuals, because John D. Rockefeller decided to build Rockefeller Center. Technically true, but incredibly misleading.
By 'individual' I meant single person with radical views capable of making such decision on his/her own. Most of multinational conglomerates, while rich enough, are headed by committees, have tied assets, or have no one capable of making such decisions - my examples were meant to show there are individuals with such power, though.
Simon_Jester wrote:What I mean is, if you allow this thing to become a pandemic in the wild, the risk of it mutating and starting to produce cyanide for everyone. Or the risk of it starting to do this in groups that you didn't specifically target and that might feel vindictive, say if some homophobic monstrosity tries to kill all the gays and it turns out that his 'gay gene' is one that 40% of the straight population has a recessive for. Or the risk of the tailored germ exchanging its "produce cyanide" gene with other organisms.
That would be beneficial mutation, and these are much rarer than bad ones that would simply make the organism harmless. Rare that it might make people disregard the risk, if they won't do it on the basis of 'god will protect righteous'.
Now, it's still possible this will happen anyway if it becomes trivial to both whip up the right gene and insert it into the target organism. And if the would-be viral engineer decides there's no need for substantial testing of the germ before he releases it into the wild. Because then you don't need multimillion dollar setups to create your bioweapon.
You have much more confidence in humans being rational, logical beings than I do, then.

And anyway, even if you needed special skills to do it, there are thousands of universities out there. Finding disgruntled employee or even, in a pinch, sending a few of your hand-picked men to get a degree will only get easier in time. After all, if someone dumb enough to reject evolution can get a biology degree...
After this happens once, the odds are pretty good that whoever's left alive will make it a lot harder to get your hands on gene-splicing equipment.
Imagine a scenario where a rare skill, not generally accessible to everyone, like piloting of big aircraft, is used to make a terrorist attack that will plunge the world into a decade of heightened paranoia, make your state, of which you almost have total control, international pariah. It will trigger invasion by extremely powerful military, will make your organization hunted men, by snipers, soldiers, fighter planes, to the point special technology will be developed in order to monitor whole global communication, looking for you. And a special, ruthless, robotic plane having only one purpose, to drop guided bombs on your head based on slightest shadow of sighting, will be procured in large quantities and sent on biggest manhunt in human history.

No sane man would order that, right? Right?
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